Not as attractive as

[SillySallySingsASong]

I feel really stupid typing this but I'm going to anyway because I need people to (kindly) tell me to get a grip.

I'm mid 40s. I've been seeing a man (early 50s) since November.

I met several of his friends and their partners before lockdown and a couple since. Everyone was really welcoming and friendly and they all seem like nice people.

It bothers me that all of his friends have partners who are slim and very attractive. I'm not. I'm a stone heavier than I'd like but, even if I lost it, I still wouldn't be slim and I still wouldn't be anymore attractive.

I'm pretty average looking and I know his exes have all been slim and attractive too.

Firstly, it makes me feel inadequate and I'm very conscious that everyone in the room knows I'm less attractive than them/their partners. It makes me feel awkward for him and I hold back from being affectionate etc because I don't want to embarrass him . Secondly, he was single for 5 years or thereabouts before meeting me and I'm conscious that he might just be 'settling' because I know that although he was content being single and had forged a nice life out for himself, he really does want a 'life partner'. I'm confident that I'm not the woman he would have wanted or imagined himself to he with.

I was also single for a few years. I have no problem with being single or fears of relationships ending. My only real fear is being with someone who has a little pang of 'sadness' at not having been able to attract the sort of woman they want/used to he able to attract or with someone who is settling for me because they want a partner and I'm willing so better than nothing.

I know all the stuff about it being more than looks etc but I can't help how I feel.

I knew a beautiful woman in her 20s. I mean stunning. Could have been a model if she was two inches taller. Fab figure. Gorgeous. Stunner. Everyone said the same. Kind, sweet, sensitive, strong. Just a great person.

Yet she told me that she felt flabby, unattractive, needed to lose weight, had crooked teeth, thought she was a bitch and would never meet a nice guy.

None of that was true.

It was all in her head. And even if she was all of those things there’s someone out there for everyone.

Please go back to counselling. Like her, you are a product of what some fuckwit said. A horrible person. You aren’t. You just need to believe that.

In the meantime do things that make you happy. All the guys I know have said the same thing, they arent too fussed on fashion or hairstyles or any of that, they want a woman who is a good person, with a good sense of humour that they can have a laugh with and make laugh and have fun together and be happy and a few extra pounds isn’t a big deal, they don’t care. They wouldn’t want a long term relationship with some skinny judgemental model.

Hi OP,

I just wanted to say you've made a really big step forward in talking to him about how you feel. I don't mean that to sound patronising at all, I genuinely feel you have made progress.
I know you have been left feeling.... is that enough? Because you have come back to your original impression that he is settling. But in talking about it you have opened up communication with him and you each have time now to think about it all and decide if the relationship is right for both of you.
I hope you will look into other forms of therapy and this thread would be a good thing to print out and take with you to discuss.

I wish you luck.

Your description of the other women is unhealthy, almost as if you are genuflecting. Is this how you feel? That they are better people than you because of their looks? Because this is not true.

I've not long got home from the weekend with him. We both said we'd had a lovely weekend. The extra effort on both sides made a difference.

But I can still feel it.

We spent the afternoon looking through old childhood photos of his. It was really nice but I can still feel it. He was so good looking when he was younger. Really beautiful. He wouldnt have looked twice at me.

I don't have any photos of me pre-adulthood. It's been a long time since I looked at any photos of myself. There are very few photos of me in adulthood. I have such a hostile reaction to seeing photos of myself. I don't see the other people or the day or the memories. I just feel sickening disgust.

I met the dad of my best friend from primary school a few years ago. One evening he brought a photo of his daughter and me along to show me. We were about 11 on the photo. He showed me without warning - just, "oh, look at this". And I think my reaction shocked both of us. It was visceral.

Emeeno1 I spent all of my formative and adolescent years being ashamed of who I am and what I looked like. Feeling like I took up too much space and embarrassed when people looked at me because I was guilty. I worried about ending out in public in case i bumped into things or knocked chairs over because i was so huge. Except i was just a normal kid/teenager.

But now, when I look at myself in the mirror or on photos, all i can see is the ugly person my mum saw and I worry that others can too.

So yes, I do think they are better than me.

I genuinely hate this more attractive/less attractive thing.

Unless it's the first time someone meets you and you're trying to attract a partner (even then it seems a very young person thing) who gives a fuck if you're slim and hot-- does that mean they are smarter, more interesting, have similar interests etc?

Yeah looks may attract you but they don't keep you - those other qualities do, though.

If I hit it off with someone their looks would just been an initial point of interest. After 5 minutes that would barely matter.

If the person you're with is different and thinks looks are everything then they are shallow and are likely to be in other ways.

If the person you're with is different and thinks looks are everything then they are shallow and are likely to be in other ways.

No, he's never commented negatively on my appearance.

Enough other people have though.

@SillySallySingsASong

If the person you're with is different and thinks looks are everything then they are shallow and are likely to be in other ways.

No, he's never commented negatively on my appearance.

Enough other people have though.

I’m so sorry these people were so cruel @SillySallySingsASong. I know what it feels like to be bullied and belittled.

I don’t know what your relationship with this man holds, but I do know, with every fibre of my being, that you are worth much more than you think. In every way.

I’m sorry, I may well have missed some posts, but did your therapy explore your relationship with your mum? Is she still alive? Have you ever been able to talk - to anyone - about how she made you feel?

It sounds like you still need to heal.

Sorry for any cross-posts, I think and type very slowly!

@SillySallySingsASong

tantrumtraining I've only been seeing this man since november. But I started dating someone a couple of years ago that lasted for a few months and it was no different.

It's never any different.

So yes, you're right, I would say that. I suspect the things within me that put men off are very deep seated.

Oh @SillySallySingsASong it’s so sad that you automatically think this is what pp meant. It is not your fault!

Nothing within you is putting men off, and nothing outward either. You sound absolutely lovely!

Excuse the cliche, but ‘those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it’ Don’t let your abusive mother rule your life. You are worth so much more.

Please explore more counselling/therapy options. You deserve to be happy.

@TwentyViginti

You're dating a balding, paunchy man in his 50s who never compliments you. Take him off that pedestal you've placed him on.

This - with bells on

My dad left for someone who was, essentially, a younger version of my mum.
all i can see is the ugly person my mum saw
Sorry if I'm making any points that you have already mulled over a thousand times, but you know that your mother didn't see you, did she? She saw herself. She saw her own fears of not being attractive enough for your dad (I would guess he made it clear from the very start that looks were everything), and passed them on to you with knobs on. You know the poem, I would guess?

What you're doing now - putting a brave face on it, and not making your insecurities his problem - is a sign of great strength. But it would still be a good idea to keep on making your insecurities the problem of the professionals whose job it is to help.

If this man has something to offer you, don't throw it away by essentially agreeing with your parents' view that beauty is the most important. Listen to the stubborn part of you that disagrees vehemently with that credo.

Be kind to the young girl you were. Poor thing, brought up in that atmosphere, of course she believed all that crap. But you know better.

Thanks.

I think his own experiences mean he equates 'complimenting' someone with meeting their 'neediness' based on things he's said. That they are given in response to requests seeking reassurance and validation.

I mean, he has told me I look nice a few times and I don't ever 'fish' for compliments. I've never asked him how I look or whatever or what he finds attractive about me. I suppose it's not that he never compliments me, more that they are not ever based on looks and are genuine, if rare.

Although, it's quite possible that he just doesn't see anything in me worthy of compliment in that respect.

He told me I have quite slim legs yesterday (I really don't!) but it was an observation rather than a compliment.

you are worth much more than you think. In every way.

I wish I could see it myself.

did your therapy explore your relationship with your mum?

Sort of. Most of it has tried to address self confidence/esteem.

I've been having online group therapy for the past few years specifically to address it. And that has had limited impact, which is why I'm now fairly comfortable/confident when I'm single.

I understand that it was my mum's failing and I understand that it was her experiences that led to her feelings towards me. She projected a lot of disappointment, frustration, fear and anger onto me. I suspect she felt like she was screaming into the void a lot of the time. She was a very unhappy and angry at life woman. She had her own trauma to deal with but she didn't.

I suspect that her comments about my looks/personality etc were genuinely held and rather than encourage and enable me to be independent, self sufficent and confident, she tried to improve me as 'marriage material' but it backfired massively.

I'm talking about her in the past tense. She's still alive, but I havent had any contact with her for many years.

I spent my childhood and teenage years being asked why I couldn't be more like X or told I was "just like" Y - esp when the latter behaved very poorly.

Some of the girls she wanted me to be more like were smoking at 14, drinking in the park, having underage sex (and she knew these things) but they were very pretty girls and popular with the (older) boys as a result. They were daughters who reflected well on their parents when they walked down the street with them. Not parents who had to be embarrassed that they had an ugly daughter.

I suspect she had very low self esteem herself and external validation based upon appearances was very important to her.

She felt embarrassed that other people had attractive daughters and she didn't. My brother was very good looking when he was younger and she frequently compared us.

I have a daughter. When she was a baby, my mother used to tell her that she was beautiful, "just like grandma". When she was 5, my mother told me that she was a very pretty baby but she wasn't anymore. It was shortly after that I cut contact with her.

So.i understand it all.

But I've not been able to change how I see myself or the impact that has because i can only see the collection of flaws that were so often pointed out to me.

ravenmum

X post

I do get that, yes. But 'objectively' her observations about me were correct.

My mum was very slim and attractive in her youth and was still attractive as she aged. Something happened to her in her teens that she felt made her less physically attractive and she felt she had 'settled' for my dad as a result. She was dissatisfied in many ways. She was objectively more attractive than him. I look like him. I think she wanted a daughter in her own image who would reflect her own beauty so that, when people complimented her on having a beautiful daughter, she could take some of that for herself. Obviously, the compliments never came. I heard about that a lot so it clearly bothered her. There was a tale she would tell about a woman looking in the pram once and recoiling in horror at such an "ugly baby". It really upset her. Not because someone had said her beautiful baby was ugly, but because she had such an ugly baby.

I doubt my dad passed negative comments. I suspect he probably thought she was quite attractive. Maybe that's why he went for an younger version of her? I think she felt very frustrated that she hadn't been able to do better though.

Since they split up, she dated numerous men and remarried/divorced again. She has now been with someone else for 15 years. All that mattered to her was that they were good looking. Their character was irrelevant.

I used to describe her as having a touch of the Madame Bovary about her.

That ugly baby story sounds a total load of nonsense to me, did she make that kind of shit up often? Was she on medication/drugged up or something?

Oh and I knew what te poem would be before I clicked on it!

I thought you would :)

ravenmum

I don't know. She'd told her mum about it at the time it happened because i asked if she knew about it.

I was in my 30s by then. My grandma didnt know if it had actually happened but my mum had told her it had at the time and had been quite upset by it. Apparently.

There were a lot of stories about about people telling her how beautiful she was and how young she looked. She was very pretty, but in a 'girl next door' way not traffic stoppingly stunning.

She worked in an admin support role. In her 50s, there were many stories about the younger professional men being enamoured with her which I was suspicious of...

Nope, no medication or drugs. Didn't drink.

She was perfectly 'respectable' as was her 'duty'.

She was overly preoccupied with what other people thought though.

Doesn't sound at all likely to me - unless a baby is actually physically deformed, people don't recoil. (Though once my daughter fell on her head and had a massive lump, which I covered up with her bonnet. A lady adjusted the bonnet for me and was visiby horrified when the lump appeared!) Maybe it was a teenager pulling her leg and she should have known better. Maybe she just thought it happened because of her mental health issues. (Maybe she should have been on medication.)

(Maybe she should have been on medication.) wry smile

Maybe...

My grandma told me she had been quite upset by it at the time. She wouldn't have made it up but she would have accepted what my mum said unquestioningly.

It is possible it was fabricated...

I also don't find this very believable. Babies are cute and humans are programmed to find them cute. If it happened I would bet it happened as some kind of twisted joke or in her head.

I am really sad and angry on your behalf OP for how badly your mum let you down. I really think it is worth searching for a good therapist who you could see one to one, face to face, about this. Its effect is so pernicious and you are convinced you have no option but to live with it - but I can imagine the difference it would make to really be free of it and accept that you are a wonderful valuable person totally outside of all this crap your mum has stuck you with. I wish I and the other posters could convince you of the value that you have.

Read the happiness trap. Ignore the glib title. It's really good.

Babies are cute and humans are programmed to find them cute.

I know. The more I think about it, the more I just can't imagine someone saying , "oh what an ugly baby!" if I'm honest.

But it was a narrative she told herself for nearly 40 years. Whatever the truth, I guess it was something that had become true to her.

Opaljewel

Tha is for the recommendation, I'll have a look at it.

He didn't say as much but I mentioned that I didn't know how he felt, or what he thought about me and all I got back was, "i enjoy spending time with you" and "you're tolerant of my idiosyncracies." He mentioned a few things about me that had given him cause for similar concern
Earlier in the thread I said let it go, but that was mainly to do with the earlier threads and that he was showing you no affection. But the conversation sounds like he wants to make an effort ...or not? I am not surprised you are confused. You say he isn't in love with you - are you with him? If not I wonder what is holding you with him? And you are 4 years off living together - why? Is that a gentle let down or him saying he sees you together in 4 years?