I'm tired of stoners

[Annoyedbyit]

Have been seeing my dp for 7 months, I knew he was a 'smoker' (and other things) when I started seeing him, so I feel I don't have much of a reason to be peeved, however, I would very much appreciate a bit of advice.

I don't smoke or take any sort of illegal drugs, just my choice and I don't judge those that do as it's simply their choice. When he comes to my house, he smokes his weed outside as I don't even smoke cigarettes and it wold make my house smell. He doesn't object to this.

I stayed at his place on Saturday night as he had the house to himself (flatmate away), so I was really annoyed when on Sunday morning this happened...

We had a nice lie in and everything and he went to get the papers and was going to make us a nice breakfast, a lovely, lazy sunday morning. However, his friend from the flat upstairs pops in, as he always does (v annoying) with some weed, so dp instantly 'skins up' and they start smoking several joints. It is really strong and there is a smokey fog about the place, so I went and sat in another room.

I thought to myself: 'what the hell am I doing here!', so I decided to head home as a stoned dp is not what I wanted to be with. DP totally taken aback by me wanting to go home as he couldn't see he'd done anything wrong. I felt like he had put me on hold until he was ready to pick up the romantic sunday element again. I just didn't want to be treated like that, but he made me feel like I was being totally irrational and unreasonable and he couldn't see why I was peeved.

Anyway, I left and feel like something insurmountable has happened, don't think we can come to an agreement over this. Sorry if this is long and rambling, it's really on my mind and I don't know what I should do or if it's worth trying to move forward on this. Thank you all for listening and thank you in advance for any advice.

You cannot say this guy has a habit or is addicted from what Annoyedabit has told us.

He goes out at weekend or club nights and takes class a's - think you'll find there is a large silent minority who do exactly the same thing - lots of them doctors, lawyers, journalists, nurses, teachers, accountants, pharmacists, police men, hairdressers, grass cutters etc etc etc. Nothing triggers it other than a curiosity to find out what its all about - and if you try the right stuff at the right time with the right people it can turn out to be a hell of a lot of fun.

How many people do you know are happy to go out without having a drink - you just need to look at the pregnancy boards to see how many pregnant ladies are counting the days till they can have a drink again. - That doesn't mean they have a problem, just means they miss the relaxing and fun affect of alcohol - coke, weed and e are similar.

I'm not saying people don't develop problems from taking drugs - but it is definitely NOT inevitable and in my experience not any more likely than someone turning into an alcoholic when they like a drink on a night out.

In my experience those who develop problems with drugs, drink, food, exercise etc etc all have deep seated problems they never deal with or have dealt with. The dependency is a symptom of something else not a result of taking the substance.

I am not including Heroin or Crack in my theory (and its only my theory not up to scientific scrutiny) as they seem to be totally different - doesn't seem to take any time at all before normal people end up in hell of a mess - which they don't seem to have the ability to get out of - fortunately none of my group of friends got into either.

I went out with a stoner years ago. TBH you are probably wasting your time. Some blokes can't get it out of their system. Its not much fun being with them . Hope he either sorts himself out or you find someone who is much nicer. hugs

As tryingforto says, I think the point I'm trying to make here is that his use of drugs doesn't make him addicted per se. On the last government survey, 4 million people had used drugs at least once in the last year and 1 million people had used Class A's. Within his broad age group (18-25) 30% of people had used it in the last year and 19% in the last month. The same report notes that whilst potentially all users are at risk approximately only 1 in 10 goes on to develop an addiction or long term health problems. The amounts of coke and pills you're talking about doesn't sound like an awful lot for a night out, though to be fair, it sounds like he's getting through a decent amount of weed.

Clearly some people (like myself and people I know) can/ have used various drugs in greater or lesser extents and have left them behind as their life moves on. On the other hand, some people, who are to be fair the real minority, do develop problems with drug use. I guess the point is that simply because someone uses drugs in quantities that might seem excessive to those who don't does not, in itself, mean he's an addict.

Fair play to him though for wanting to change for you. Assuming (I think not unreasonably) that he's not an addict, that's a big change in lifestyle he's willing to make for you.

Hi cestlavie

Some people who use drugs can indeed leave this behind when they finally decide to get their act together - but many do not and the drug usage continues. This point is seemingly forgetten by people who have previously used drugs.

He is also mixing primarily with people who have had or continue to use, why can this person not completely break away from this group?. Your life thankfully moved on, I would argue he's still stuck at 14 years of age.

How would thirteen years of cannabis usage be described, annoyedbyit's man has been using cannabis since he was 14 and he's now 27. This is not the only drug he's used either to date.

With regards to your last paragraph a person cannot change for someone else - they need to do it for their own selves. I also come back to the original point that he has seemingly made no real attempt as yet to separate himself fully from his druggie friends or now has a drugs counsellor. Does he honestly think he can do this on sheer willpower alone?. I think that both of them (particularly her) are setting themselves up for a hard fall. I hope I am wrong.

Not read whole thread, but in my experience this is how people who smoke dope live their lives and it sounds to me like you don't want this in your life.

I used to hang around with people who smoked dope, I enjoyed it now and again at one time (many years ago) but never got into the culture because I found it boring and a waste of time, friendships seemed to be based on who had some gear and on skinning up together and I wouldn't ever be with someone who smoked dope for exactly those reasons, the ones you have outlined.

I honestly would move on.

I've read most of this thread and found it very interesting. Attilla - You've taken a very hard line on this subject. Do you have experience in this area? I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to have a drugs counsellor two days after deciding to try and stop. He should, quite rightly, have the chance to try on his own, hopefully with the love and support of his girlfriend behind him. After all, he's not a raging smack addict. He sounds like a fairly normal twentysomething that likes to party. He'll probably get bored of it on his own anyway. Good luck to him and OPer.

Its not just me who has asked awkward questions, why shouldn;t a hard line be taken After all such substances are illegal.

He may not be a raging smack addict as you put it but he certainly has an all encompassing drug habit and primarily associates with people who also use. Just as problematic in my view.

A 13 year cannabis habit is not to going easy to break through just trying on his own so why use his g/f as a crutch?. He has to want to do this for his own self. I hope he does choose to access a drugs counsellor; he may have more success.

I am also suggesting he would have more chance to kick cannabis and the other substances if he was also to give up his druggie friends (something that to date he is showing no indication of doing).

This man has used cannabis since he was 14 and is now using other illegal substances. He may be 27 but he's still at 14. What made him start using?.

I don't see it as him using her as a crutch, more like her supporting him through something that's going to be difficult. That's part of what love is isn't it?

They need help both separately and together if they are going to overcome this.

If he has to go to rehab then she cannot go with him. Infact the rehab people are likely to ask that there is no contact whilst he is in there; the addict has to seek help and counselling on his own thus no emotional crutch can be used. The partner should also receive separate counselling at that time.

Not everyone needs professional help to stop smoking dope and quit the party drugs.

Hello all, been so busy today I havent been able to get back to you. Thank you for still being out there, it means a lot. And thanks for the hugs Meglet x
He's managed three days off the drink and drugs so far, I feel very proud of him! He's going away to visit an old (druggie) friend this weekend with another of his (druggie) group, so I wonder what will happen during this time? I'll wait and see as he may stay clean, may not. No point thinking on this until I know.
I too wondered how he began using at such a young age, I once asked him and he said it was what everyone did at that age. I don't know why he continued with it through all these years, maybe just a fondness for getting out of it? Perhaps this implies he has deep-seated fears/neurosis that he needs to address, but I can't make him unless he wants to go down that route. I think small steps is better, I don't want him to see it as a daunting task, rather one that he can achieve day by day (or hour by hour if it got really tough - I remember how bad it was to give up smoking cigarettes!).
One thing Trying fortwo - I asked him ages ago if he'd tried heroin and he said he hadn't because he knew he's like it so much and would be come addicted. I was a bit worried by this (understatement) but then I thought about it and it seemed to mean he wanted to keep any addiction in check. Maybe he has a strength of will that can help him through?
I've asked him if he's feeling any difference and he's slept fitfully the past few nights - do you think this is because he's not been smoking the weed, which sends him into a catatonic state? Is it a good thing or a bad thing he can't sleep?

Regrding his druggie friends - I think he may come to see them differently in time as they'll all be skinning up, chopping lines etc and getting wasted (their choice of lifestyle, I'm not judging them, just caring about my dp), so maybe he'll see what I do and them just loosing precious moments of their life to lost weekends. I'll never point this out to him, if he sees it in his own way, then that'll be the best way and it will determine if me and him have a future. Like you say Atilla - he has to want to change for himself. If he wants to go back to his old ways, I'll finish it as I don't want that lifestyle. I know it takes all sorts to make a world, but I don't see why I should put up with it if it's not my choosing.
Yes, Wolfear, I do want to support him, I guess it will probably take different paths as time goes on - maybe even he'll see me differently, maybe he'll want someone else - aargh, a whole new thread there!

Annoyedbyit,

Three days is a start, albeit a very small one. He has though a very long way to go as you no doubt appreciate.

Do you think he will tell you openly if he goes back to taking drugs again?. And if he does take them, what will you do?. It would worry me that he is associating once more with his druggie friends; how is he going to say no to them?. Is he strong enough to say no to them if they offer him cannabis?.

For him though to say, "it is what everyone did at that age", is a cop out and he knows it. Of course not every 14 year old took drugs or even wanted to. He took it for reasons known only to him; reasons that he may have to explore one day. If he really wants to help his own self he will also have to examine why exactly he started cannabis at 14 years of age. He may well have become dependent on it very quickly.

It sounds like he could have an addictive personality.

I am glad to read that you have made a decision for your own self in that if he does go back to his former lifestyle you will finish with him. As painful as that will be for yourself you have to walk away. You cannot save someone who ultimately does not want to be saved. You need to look after your own self and wellbeing; you are not responsible for him ultimately.

Hi Annoyedby it

His sleep is definitely fitful due to weed cold turkey. This will get better in time and I bet he starts dreaming again too, which tends to disappear when you smoke a lot. He'll be waking up with a much clearer head and will hopefully enjoy this feeling.
Do you want him to eradicate drugs from his life completely or would you be happy if he did it occasionally with mates (away from you), like on the aforementioned weekend away? This may be a lot more achievable and palatable for for him, for now anyway.
Hats of to him for trying, and to you for giving him a chance to prove himself. Your encouragement and support will mean a lot to him.

Hello all - just a little update for you...well, he's still off the weed, booze and class As! He's finding it hard but not impossible and feels a bit isolated from the other users but he is finding the strength to continue with being clean. He is sleeping much better, though still waking up in the night every now and again, but nowhere near as bad as it was at the beginning. I'm so proud of him.

Wow - good for him. And good for you too for sticking by him.

I'm hoping for a happy ending here

Hello everyone - well, he had a few spliffs over the weekend. On Friday night at a friend's birthday do (I wasn't with him, he told me about it on Saturday, unprompted, he just came out with it) and then on Saturday night, he said he really wanted some more, so he rolled one and smoked it infront of me. I felt a bit uncomfortable as I didn't want him to regret it as he's been clean for a few weeks now, but I also felt I couldn't stop him as it all has to be entirely his choice. Before he smoked on saturday night, he'd been with his user friends and they'd all been smoking and there'd been some other drugs about, I'm not sure what. I think he had a moment of weakness and gave in. Not sure if him smoking in front of me made me feel better or worse, nor how it made him feel as I dodn't want to talk about it in case it drew attention to it, so I left it and haven't asked him about it at all. I want to though but will leave it a couple of days. Thank you all for listening.

Annoyedbyit

I wondered how you were getting on and I am sorry (though I have to say not completely surprised) to see that he has relapsed.

This is doomed to failure on his part because he has not completely separated himself from his user friends and also seemingly not under any professional help.

You cannot do this for him, he is clearly not ready and or able to accept proper help and with all due respect to your good self (as most women would have gone him long ago) you cannot rescue and or save him from his own demons. They're too big for him to tackle on his own and you cannot help with this much as you'd like to.

What are you getting out of this exactly?. You are actually not helping him at all.
You love him very much but this alone is not enough is it?. You badly need a reality check here.

He's only been "clean" since October 2 - he has not even managed one month without a drug of some sort.

I think as well that when you do talk to him he'll give you some old flannel and you'll believe it because you want to give him yet another chance and for him thus to succeed. But he won't because he's not willing and or able to truly walk away from drugs himself.

Give yourself a time limit (say a month) re him and stick to it. Do not waste any more of your precious time on him.

Annoyedbyit.

And you wrote this to me before now:-

"Like you say Atilla - he has to want to change for himself. If he wants to go back to his old ways, I'll finish it as I don't want that lifestyle. I know it takes all sorts to make a world, but I don't see why I should put up with it if it's not my choosing".

I'm afraid I haven't read the entire thread - just the OP really - but I wanted to add that I was pretty much ditched by Ds1's dad because he was into 'partying', his whole social circle was too, despite being mainly in their forties and above - he left me I believe for being uptight about alcohol and weed.
He was an alcoholic but a cunningly disguised one - even drinking and driving with kids in the car etc.
I didn't mind people smoking and had partaken of it myself when at parties with him - not a lotm but being polite I guess - I just wasn't into it enough ever to buy the stuff, or want to smoke it on a 'normal' day or anything, only for parties.
I realised that to want to be pissed or a bit stoned in the context of everyday life was something I couldn't really relate to, particularly having small children around.
He left me and went off with someone who could obviously provide him with drugs and didn't mind an alcoholic drinking around their children.

I still feel like an uptight failure over it

Hi Atilla - thank you for wondering how it was all going!
I know I said I'd finish with him if he goes back to it all, he's only had a copule of spliffs and for that I'm willing to let it be and see if he can move on. If he doesn't then I will tell him that I can't have him in my life if he is using.
You also ask what I'm getting out of the relationship - it's love. Him for me and me for him. When he's clean he is amazing, lovely and everything I want in life. When he's using, he becomes like his stoner friends: sofa bound and when he's really out of it (coke/e/lots of strong weed usage), he becomes like someone I don't know. I stand by what I said, it's just that these past weeks have been so good, we've been out and about and got some good early nights, cooked for each other, done lots of lovely things. I think he deserves another chance, it's only a couple of spliffs and everyone falls off the wagon at sometimes, think of when anyone is giving up smoking or on a diet, there's always a slip up.

I'd love some advice on how to get him away from his stoner friends as they are the thing that make him want to join in, they pass round a spliff to him even when they know he is trying to get clean. It's not easy to say to him: "get some new friends" When he hasn't been with them he hasn't been tempted.

I'll give it some more time (a month? Until Christmas? I don't know) as he has to decide what he wants, if he chooses the drugs then at least I'll know one way or the other and I can decide what to do.
Thank you for staying with the thread.

Hello FlightAttendant - I feel uptight too, it's so hard not to sound 'uncool' about it all, I think I must come across as a right old fuddy duddy by not being part of the drug scene. I just don't see the point of it and having seen people looking (imho) zombified and dull while on drugs, I don't want to be part of it, nor do I want to see dp in that state.
Do I sound like a control freak? I'm not at all! I believe in letting live.
You know too, they all smoke/take pills/coke and drive, it scares the hell out of me.

Do you feel better for moving on and getting rid of him? Is he still using?

Oh, gosh, yes I imagine he still does it - I don't know to be fair, as he hasn't been in touch or answered any of my messages since about 2 years ago, no three now.
But it was part of who he was - I loved him immensely and joined in when it was just a party, well to a degree but never have been into getting pissed or stoned at all, so I was a weirdo at school - all my friends were into that stuff.
My parents didn't ever go to the pub or parties, so I guess I just never saw it as 'normal' or felt the need to rebel, because it was never banned or anything at home, I just wsn't interested in it. I was scared of losing control as well, I have to admit.
I miss him insanely, I don't think there's a day goes by when I don't miss him - though I now feel quite distant from him, in my head - he has gone and I don't believe he'll ever come back - I don't think you can leave someone you love without feeling a great deal of pain, particularly if they love you too.
I guess you need to weigh up how much he really does love you, and go from there.
I would not have left ds1's dad however much he drank or smoked. But the choice was taken for me.

Hi annoyedbyit,

I am the voice at the back on the left aren't I?!.

You're welcome re staying with the thread but I'm not going to say, "there there it will be okay" to you as that will do you a big disservice.

You have gone back on your previous words. He has gone back to it not just by taking spliffs but also by associating with his druggie friends again. He has smoked in front of you; something you dislike intensely. What does that show you, to my mind it shows a lack of respect. There is a hell of a difference between the occasional slip up and trying to break free of long term drug abuse. He will slip up and continue to do so perhaps for many years to come. Is this what you want?.

He cannot, is not able to or will not break away from his friends. He keeps going back to them. He could move away and make a new life for himself; hopefully a drug free one but in his condition he is more likely than not to find other drug users somewhere else. Short of removing him from the situation (e.g him going into rehab) there is nothing you can yourself do regarding his friends. He is responsible for his own actions ultimately, you are not and you cannot and must not take ownership.

He needs to face up to why he started to use in the first place. Only at that point will he start to get somewhere. You're not the one to help him because you as his g/f are too emotionally involved. You have to realise that your love for him is not helping, it could be seen as enabling as you make excuses for him (I'm looking at the diet comment you made in this regard). There is a fine line between love and enabling and you're treading a fine line here.

Many alcoholics are lovely people when sober but when drunk are a nightmare for all those around them unfortunate enough to be in their path. They are also some of the most selfish and self centered people in the entire world. The people around them also play roles.
Can you see a parallel with your own situation here?

Where's your own help and support, he is in no position to give this to you. Have you talked to drug charities?.

If you were to give him an ultimatum (which I do not suggest you do) i.e you or the drugs he would likely choose the drugs. Harsh reality that but he is weak and unable to as yet change. How long it will take for him to change if he chooses to do so is like saying how long is a piece of string. There are no guarantees here, he may never become fully clean.

You say you get love from this - him for you and you for him. Am sorry to be harsh here but this is not love is it?. You may well love him (I don't doubt that at all) but he's not showing you the same consideration and he is thus not worthy of you. If he truly loved you he would let you go and seek professional help for his own self to get clean, then would come back to you once free of the drugs. He needs to do this by himself. He has not done this, instead he continues to use both drugs and you and you believe any old crap he comes out with. Drug addicts are also consummate liars. You could end up being dragged down by him, is this what you really want for your own self?. Ultimately your own sense of self preservation has to kick in for your own sake.

Hard as it is you may ultimately have to walk away from him. And that is something you are not as yet ready to do. At least now you yourself mention a time limit - stick to it to the letter.

I wish you well - you have a dark road ahead of you.

I hate to say it but I think Attila talks a lot of sense - it's gone into the rosy tinted specs for me at this stage, but I know I was very unhappy with Ds1's dad - and I think I know now, I was not loved as much as I thought, or wanted to think, I was.

I was enabling him before he left. I stopped, began to ask him not to drink, and he chose the hard stuff. What does that say about his feelings for me?

Annoyedbyit

The following will be hard for you to read but read it you must:-

There are many people who suffer from addictions, and in some cases their loved ones actually enable the addiction because they want to help. Sure, you want to help the one you love to overcome addiction, but you definitely to not want to enable the addiction any further.

Take a minute to think about an addict. They intend to continue what they are doing no matter what. Why not go ahead and get someone to help him with the addiction? You see, without someone to enable him, an addict would need to start dealing with all the consequences that his actions cause, which could actually bring the addiction to an end. Unfortunately many well intentioned enablers actually help to protect the addict from the problems that are a result of the addiction.

In some cases family members actually help the addict get the drug in a safe manner to try to protect them. They are afraid that they will get hurt or that they will go with withdrawal and so they go on to help their loved one keep using, which does not fix the problem at all. Some of the actions that may signal you are acting as an enabler include making excuses, lying, and helping your loved one to get what they need. This means you are no longer helping them, you are enabling them to continue in their addiction.

Usually this type of behavior starts out quite slowly over time and in the beginning is just behaviour that is used to help smooth things over. People want to keep their family problems a secret so they keep their mouth shut. Also, many times denial of the problem actually affects the enabler and they rationalize things away to try and avoid the problem that is occurring. Sadly, the problem will not just go away.

Once a person starts enabling an addict, it turns into a cycle. The person who is addicted never has to deal with consequences, and so they continue in their addictive behaviour. Since their addiction becomes even worse, then the enabler gets drawn deeper and deeper into the problem. Soon this turns into more chaos in the home, which an addict will use for an excuse to continue using.

So, how can you get this cycle to end? Well, while the person who is enabling the situation may be fearful and full of shame, at some point this will probably turn into anger. While they may try to bottle it all up, at some point it is going to come out in an explosion. They will be sick of excuses and they will need to decide to lovingly detach themselves from the situation.

This means that now there are no more excuses being made by the enabler, and suddenly the addict has to deal with the consequences of their addiction. In some cases this may lead them to try and find treatment for their addiction. Usually people who go for treatment either get tired of the addiction or they end up experiencing a dramatic crisis that leads them to seek out treatment for the problem. It is important that you never protect a loved one from this type of crisis because you may be keeping them from finding the treatment that they need for their addiction problem.