Difficult situation with Father in law. AIBU?

[Onetime888]

Name change as I am not proud of this.

I am early 50s, my FIL is late 80s, our relationship has always been difficult. To put it frankly, I really hate having him in my life. He's rude and selfish but the thing that really, really upsets me is he has made a lot of inappropriate comments to me about the way I look. Creepy old man comments. I won't repeat any of the comments but they are awful , and they make me feel very uncomfortable, they always have. (Sexual type comments)

I have always been low contact with him because if this, but my MIL died a few years ago and since then we have had to do a lot more care for him, he is currently waiting for an assessment at the mind clinic (suspected dementia). The appointment has been delayed till I don't know when.

He is very vulnerable, won't be able to make his lunch himself etc. He's left the Tap running overnight, left the gas hob on.... He's really not able to take care of himself.

He has got a lot worse with his comments in the last year or so. To the point I absolutely refuse to see him alone. I really feel like a terrible person but it upsets me a great deal.

My husband is going back to work in a couple of weeks, I'm not going back till at least early next year (WFH), so my husband has effectively told me I can do caring duties during the day. On my own. There is nobody else to do it. We have been doing it together up to this point but it's turning into a long haul situation.

I've said point blank no, I won't do it. My husband understands to a point but thinks his dad being vulnerable is more important than my feelings, but I actually threw up at the thought of it. I can't do it. I just can't.

He will be left on his own every day with the two of us visiting every evening.

I get his shopping, sort out his money, pay his bills. I'm happy doing things that don't involve him but I can't do this, visit him and check he's okay during the day.

I've phoned SWD for help (before lockdown), the social worker I spoke to wasn't helpful and said we need the diagnosis for a care plan. I have no idea when this will actually happen.

I've tried talking about hiring help, my FIL says no, absolutely not. He won't let them in.

So I don't know what to do now. I really don't. I have a feeling I need to just accept I have to do this, but I desperately don't want to.

Has anyone been in a situation like this?

I'm just thinking about everything. I don't know how I got here, I feel like I just quit a job with no notice and let down my husband.

And then I think he let me down

And then I think we just ended up here because of one very nasty and abusive man. But I'm starting to see everything a bit more clearly.

I've always thought of FIL as (1), being my significant elder and deserving my respect no matter what and (2), a man who wasn't in control of himself, not responsible.

And now I think, some PP have said, that he might be have been doing this as a control tactic, as a way to upset me. I am extremely angry when I think of it. How fucking dare he!

And I also think he has bullied my husband and did it as a way to upset him.

My MIL lost any deep and meaningful relationship with us and her grandchildren because of her abusive husband. We stayed away a lot, we wouldn't have if we didn't have to. I was always on my guard. I had to be.

And then on top of all that, they both let things go , they both heard comments about how my FIL saw me as "a goer", they heard him commenting about my breasts and backside, one time (in front of my husband) he asked if I ever thought about prostitution and he would be first in the line. (Hilarious joke that was) I keep writing more but then deleting because it's just sick.

My husband's like," its how they talk in his work, in his background." But I am 37 years younger than him and the mother of his grandchildren. It's not how he should be talking to anybody..... But it's sick that he talked to me like that.

I feel like a complete idiot. And then always I wonder if I'm over reacting again.

Your DH is either driven by FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) or he's manipulating you.

One thing I want to pick you up on from your last post - you said "unsupported". He hasn't been unsupported because you've tried your very best to do this despite his predatory behaviour. Your FIL is making it impossible for you to support him. It's completely unsafe and a massive shadow on your safety and mental health.

I'm staggered that a living husband can't see this - again your DH is either in FOG or he's manipulating you. Only you can say.

There is a reason why he's unwilling to take his care further towards professional care. Why is this?

You're wobbling because you are so used to an abusive normal that waking up and realising how wrong it has all been is a huge shock. It's natural.

But the more you write about your husband, the worse it looks. 'It's how they talk in his work' - really? In 2020? Your husband is a sexual abuse apologist. There is no other word for it. You aren't an idiot - you're coming out of the fog. You are also the only reasonable person in this mix. Never forget that.

It'll take time OP to come to terms with all this. I really think speaking to a professional will help you, hopefully someone who specialises in domestic or sexual abuse. I'm glad you feel resolute. I'm really impressed with the way you have decided that this is enough and you won't do it any more. All power to you.

You're not overreacting. You're under-reacting.

Your husband sounds hideous. Absolutely hideous.

I know that's not what you want to hear. And I do understand the FOG children of abusers live with but as you post it becomes clearer - your dh wasn't as oblivious as we thought. And that is hugely problematic.

Has he spoken to you this morning? Brought your tea? Apologised?

And even if he has done that - this is a man who listened to his father say vile sexual things to you and about you. And did nothing.

I've just read your update OP.

You are not over reacting. If anything, it's the opposite. Ask yourself this, if you had a daughter, would you allow her to be carer for a man like him? Would your DH?

Keep stepping back. You haven't let anyone down. YOU have been monumentally let down and until now, ignored by the one man that should put you first, above all others.

Did you get your cup of tea?

X posted with a few others I think (fat fingers, small keyboard).

Oh my god, overreacting? If you were of a different race and he was being racially abusive, would you think you were over-reactive about being upset?? But this is actually worse. I'm gobsmacked that your H minimised/ignored the prostitute comment, that alone should have been enough for him to challenge his father and stop the contact altogether if he didn't apologise and stopped once and for all!

Makes me sick and low just reading it, and I think you are beginning to see that your H wasn't just an ostrich here, he was an actual enabler of abuse and a bully himself, roping you in to look after his father.

Refuse to solve any problems to do with FIL, leave it to H, you didn't quit a job with no notice, imagine your own DD in the same position with her DH and FIL, would you be thinking she quit a job with no notice?? Just think of yourself as your own child, and apply all advice you'd give your own child in this situation to yourself, it's the only way to see things clearly and fairly.

I suspect that your FIL is a nasty, controlling, manipulative, covert evil operator in many other areas of his life.

He has a well honed skill set for inciting fear, dominance, control and silence. These are the skills they need to inflict sexual abuse for decades and get away with it.

I suspect that your DH has been gaslit and lives in some level of FOG around his DF - this might explain some of his denial (or it might not - he might be a vile misogynist specimen like his DF) - however it does not excuse his stance - he has turned a blind eye for decades - he has thrown you under the bus rather than deal with it - or face his own personal discomfort. He might come round once this is starkly out in the open with professionals.

Doing this stuff for FIL when their is ample cash to pay for it and your DH doesn’t want to hoard any inheritance along with him inexplicably wanting to suddenly move away “flight” - suggests he is mired deep in FOG.

However YOU are doing exactly the right thing. You are done. You have dropped the rope and are detached. Your calmness right now may be relief or shock. This may or may not wear off and leave you feeling vulnerable - hurt, angry, confused. You should look for professional support especially if your DH’s behaviours get worse and exacerbate things.

Does he dismiss and minimise your feelings in other areas of your marriage?

You should be v proud of the actions you have taken.

Sickening.

One thing I would absolutely do is get his abusive behaviour into his notes. That no lone female carer should be exposed to him. Make it CRYSTAL clear that it's nothing to do with dementia-related losing inhibitions, he has a history of sexual harrassment even to family members and is basically a sex offender.

It might give you at least some closure to know that THAT is written in black and white on his notes.

And tell your husband that's what you've done, after the fact - don't even give him the chance to whine and whatabout and dismiss. He's clearly not in the business of giving a damn about you if it saves him a confrontation, so fuck him.

Video him when you go round on your own if you have to go. Can the help be hired and you go with them? I know sounds stupid but I wouldn't go on my own.

@Thornhill58, the thread has moved on, Op doesn't "have to" do anything, please read the full thread or at least all of OP's posts before commenting...

100% agree with fizzy - email the surgery cc all Drs - this needs to be in permanent black and white - not a snippet of conversation that gets lost verbally.

Thank you everybody, he didn't bring me tea, but he came through to speak to me just there ( Friday finished early) , asked me if we could go for a late lunch at half two to talk. He's away to sort his dad by himself just now. So ... I'm going to have to pull myself together a bit.

Just stick to your guns. Dont explain or apologise or rationalise. You do not owe him this he knows perfectly well what his father is. He had better watch it because if he keeps saying shit like this you will no longer love him. Hes digging himself into a very big hole.

Your father sounds like a Jimmy Saville type. I would not be surprised if hes an active sex offender. Perhaps if hes done they will throw him in jail & they will look after him?

Theres no way hes just restricted himself to comments & consenting women/prostitutes. No. Way.

Your husband has three options-

1. You split up, he deals with his father on his own. Whether he stays, moves, cares for his father, whatever, he'll obviously be on his own.
2. You stay together and he deals with his father entirely on his own. You will take nothing to do with FIL, you don't even want to talk about him.
3. You stay together and you provide emotional support to your husband and non-contact practical help, such as grocery shopping, prescription collection, dealing with your own household admin when there's a lot going on with his father, etc. But you will not have direct contact with your FIL ever again.

In actual fact you're the one with all the leverage here- he can't force you to look after your father in law, and he's infinitely more invested than you in his father's wellbeing. Stop letting him think that he has a choice beyond those three options and keep reiterating it.

The realisation that your DH isn't listening to your fears and instead remains willfully blind is awful. Be kind to yourself and stay strong.

You don't have to go to lunch if you don't want to.

And you don't have to pull yourself together!

You've been abused by your FIL but at the very least, you've been completely let down by your husband, a man who's supposed to support you.

It's not black and white enough to say your husband is all bad. I know that. But please be aware that YOU are the only one here COMPLETELY blameless.

And do NOT go back there. Ever. Even with someone else. You must wash your hands of it completely and utterly.

I actually would show him the thread and then just namechange.

And you both have leverage over your FiL.

Either he improves his behaviour and starts paying for experienced carers, neither of you do anything.

OP you are not over reacting.

I feel sick reading this, 30 years of abuse

After the first time I'd have said to DH it's me or your father, In fact it would have made me feel so uncomfortable I would have had second thoughts about staying with DH.

It's vile.

By now I'd have blown my top and moved hundreds of miles away.

Stop letting yourself be controlled by this lecherous withered old stick!

OP, I would suggest you use TheCraicDealer's list as a baseline for your lunch with your H. Talking about this calmly is good, but if you get the sense that he is trying to wear you down, shut you down or in any way going beyond what is acceptable to you, then you fall back on that list and calmly tell him that these are the only options on the table.

You will get through this. You really do hold all the cards here.

He will have to let carers come to his home wether he wants to or not. They can go in twos and they will have a key. Your husband will have to tell him it's not negotiable so he will have to have carers and that's it.
He will probably be rude to them at first but after a while will probably like the attention. X

You don't have to go to lunch if all it's going to be is an exercise in trying to browbeat you into more minimising the abuse you've suffered.

Ask him what he wants to talk about - you are no longer interested in his father's care package, that's his issue. Your preferred choices for chat are how you go about reporting historic sexual abuse and harrassment in order to protect the carers who now might have to come in contact with this abuser. Or if that's too hot and strong for him, maybe you can have a misty-eyed giggle at the time you found out his rapey shitbag dad had also been extracting money from you to pay his bills when he had lots in the bank! Hahahaha what a card eh!

Text him that. From your bed.

Send the email to the GPs before you next speak to your DH - because he will do everything to stop that happening - he may even lie to you and pretend he has done it.

It will make you feel empowered - because you have taken action that doesn’t require you begging / pleading approval / permission from your DH. And you are saving someone else from this horror.

There is little more that you need to say to your DH. You have said what you are going to do (not go) and you have done it today.

You don’t have to waste your breath further helping him come to terms with your decision. Just a firm No.

I would suggest that you stipulate further boundaries - he is not to mention FIL to you ever again - because it will be triggering and retraumatise you - also your DH may slowly manipulate and drag you into his FOG.

Lots of memories of incidents may bubble up over the next days band weeks and you need the space to focus on prioritising dealing with those difficult feelings and you will not have any emotional capacity to take in your DH issues / concerns (remember YOU are the victim here - and your DH is an enabler whether he is conscious of that or not - “silence is compliance”)

It never even occurred to me that I could say no to lunch. I am just .... I need some counselling I think.

I want to go though, I want to know where he's at, I really do. He has a sad air, I think he seems apologetic, but I don't know. I might be seeing what I want to.

I'm going to make sure that everyone knows what my FIL is capable of, it makes me cringe to think I have been trying to hide this up to this point, to sweep it under the rug. Don't worry , I will never let anyone care for him unknowing of the situation.

@TheCraicDealer

That's exactly what the options are, thank you for doing that. I am okay to do number three, and I am very okay doing number 2. Number 1 is a last resort, but it might be a very real option which I can't get my head around.

I know he loves me. So why can't he see this?

I remember years ago, when my FIL said something , I looked at my husband to see how he would react, and I could see he was just trying very hard not to react, pretending he wasn't affected.

It just occurred to me that I partly insisted on LC so I didn't have to confront this part of my husband. I didn't have to look at him not reacting.

My head is going to start delving into deep and complicated, I'm going to keep bringing it back to straightforward. This is simple. He's either got my back , today. Or he doesn't.

If he does I can let it all go. If he doesn't we will separate.

And thank you everybody for telling me I'm not over reacting. I need to understand this properly.

And thank you for your support.