Marriage advice needed - do I stay or do I go?

[Gutwrenching]

Hi all, I'm here desperately seeking advice, apologies in advance for the essay!

My wife and I have been married 11 years, together for 15. We have built a beautiful home together and have many happy memories. She has always been there for me and is a wonderful person, and I've never never really considered anything other than us growing old together, until now.

After some lengthy introspection, I have admitted to myself that our marriage isn't working. We don't have children (we are 39 and 40), but I really do want them, and I have done for a long time. When people ask why we don't have children I have told them that its not the right time, or that we've been trying but its just not happened, but the reality is that we just don't have enough sex and our communication so has been so poor that we just haven't ever properly discussed it.

The lack of sex is mostly my fault, and I have been aware of the problem for a couple of years. I tried to fix this myself, but for whatever reason I haven't been able to (I'm just not sexually attracted to her anymore. I find myself staying up late to avoid sex, only making the effort to have sex at the right time of the month, and when we do have sex I feel uncomfortable initiating it. In all honesty, I find myself preferring to masturbate and fantasize about other women. Whilst I haven't cheated on my wife, I have looked around a bit over the last couple of years and started to think about what life could be like). I also find that I don't make any effort to be affectionate to her (buying flowers, sending nice texts) and I think that these things should come naturally, if I'm in the right relationship. I finally opened up to her about all of this, and she said she was aware of the problem but she thought I was happy enough with our marriage, so she didn't say anything. We've since tried to make an effort together, but for me nothing is changing, despite the fact I can see she is making a real effort.

I'm starting to think that if I am going to be able to have the life I crave, the right thing to do is move on. I also feel as though me moving on is the right thing to do for her - because she deserves someone who truly adores her for who she is, and who makes her happy (whilst she says she is happy in the marriage, I know this isn't truly the case - even though she won't admit it. She feels as though I prefer spending time with my friends and not with her and often asks why I ever got married, she has complained that her life is rubbish when she's been upset, she misses the affectionate small touches, she gets anxious and jealous when I go away with work etc).

But there's a few things holding me back. Selfishly, I worry whether I'll ever find anyone who loves me unreservedly like she does, and whether I'll ever again find the companionship that we enjoy. I'm also put off by the thought of leaving my home, which I love and which we renovated together and I always considered would be my 'forever home'. But most importantly, I'm worried about her. When I left and told her I wanted a break she was absolutely devastated and I can't bear to see the pain I'm causing. She mentioned that if I'd have said this a few years ago she'd have still had time to meet someone else and have a family with them, but at 40 she is now at a point where it is too late for her to do that. I worry that if I stay with her it may be just delaying the inevitable and we'll end up resenting each other, but I feel though as if I leave I'm completely ruining her whole life. I don't know what to do

What gut wrenching doesn’t seem to get is that it doesn’t matter one iot when he started contacting other women . He’s been acting like she’s beneath him and eyeing off other women MUCH longer
She will have picked up on his attitude of superior or oft which is now coming through loud and clear long before the actual messaging began and any woman would be foolish to have a baby with a man who feels like this!!!
GW you can justify all you like but your wife has known your not attracted to her for a long tine imo
As for the baby . It’s not healthy to bring a baby into this type of situation . I suspect sadly that had there been a baby you may be here complaining your not attracted to you wife since the baby came along as she has sagging breasts or whatever comes with motherhood
Of course you will claim no no no but you sound superficial and fixated on what you think you deserve and are entitled to .

‘I think it's odd to only have sex at times when you think she might be ovulating. Doesn't that make her just feel like a receptacle. You're basically saying I don't fancy you or want you but I do need your body to give me a baby so I'm only interested in that for the short space of time once a month. Not very sexy is it.’

And you claim to love and care about your wife so much that this decision is so hard yet you’re prepared to use her as a human incubator to achieve your means ? This doesn’t sound loving at all

@Lochie662

Does she have a career? Is that the reason.for the delay in trying properly for children?

You met at 25/26, you were both healthy, financially independent, no major problems or issues? You both want kids, or you both profess to want kids? It's an unusual situation that you are in if I'm honest. You say it's partly due to poor communication issues, but you communicate well enough to talk about her cycle, to talk about when you should have sex.

Sorry if I missed this but have you ever even investigated the possibility of infertility?

You are both sleepwalking your lives away.

Not really, she has always worked but is quite happy to coast in her job. I tried to encourage her to follow a passion early on but she’s just never been particularly ambitious. I’ve never had a problem with that as long as she was happy, which she said she was. I’ve got a good career, but certainly she saw some roadblocks (I.e whilst I had a very good job, and have never been out of work, I was always on fixed term contracts. I think she wanted to wait until I had something more secure. And then, when I did finally get something more permanent, I had to commute to work so was away a few nights in the week. In hindsight, this was a huge mistake as we drifted apart, perhaps irrevocably). I’m now in a permanent position closer to home, and have been for a few years, but in hindsight it’s something we should have done ten years ago. We left it way too late. You’re right about sleepwalking through life. I have friends who are a similar position in terms of intimacy with their partners, but they already have children and aren’t really bothered. I feel like my wife and I live the life of a couple with children, but without children! If that makes sense

@Fairenuff

I think it's odd to only have sex at times when you think she might be ovulating. Doesn't that make her just feel like a receptacle. You're basically saying I don't fancy you or want you but I do need your body to give me a baby so I'm only interested in that for the short space of time once a month. Not very sexy is it.

Yeah absolutely, obviously it wasn’t always like this! But certainly for me that’s what it’s become. I’ve had a chat with a friend who is psychiatrist, he said it’s not particularly uncommon when you’ve wanted children for a long. It did just become a means to an end, and when it didn’t happen it started to feel like a chore. I should have got professional help years ago

@Gutwrenching

Would you look twice at your wife if you met her today?

I know other posters say you're out of order for fantasising, critisising your wife or getting frustrated with the situation. You really shouldn't be staying in a relationship you feel like this in, that's the only thing you're doing wrong.

My take is a little different. I understand a little about your wife, I have BEEN your wife, that scared little mouse , who coasted through life and expected other people to do the heavy lifting for me.... she liked that you challenged her? You are not a life coach or a cheerleader. People have to learn to get through life on their own traction, not off the back of anyone elses.

I was frustrating and annoying when I was like that. I certainly wouldn't want to be with me. Maybe I'm seeing a situation that isn't there. But life isn't a walk in the park for anyone.

Your wife will be fine if you leave her, maybe better than fine. Maybe it will give her the nudge she needs to start living her life, or maybe she can create a safe home for herself to live in. You aren't responsible for her happiness.

You are responsible for honesty and fidelity in the marriage, only stay if you can provide that. Otherwise do the right thing and leave.

I don’t think his wife sounds like a scared little mouse at all . A scared little mouse may have sought security and had a child to a man who she sense was not attracted to her and preferred masterbating
As for the op being a cheerleader or lifecoaxh . I’ve seen nothing in his posts that suggests he come across as either or that his wife would in fact see him this way .

The sad fact is we have only his side of all this which builds himself up as the one who works out , is sacrificing his happiness to be with her and is heartbroken
We don’t have her aide but from reading between the line ... ahe is living with a man who has made selfish decisions s approqches her only when she’s ovulating and expects her to have a baby whilst her is prefering solo sex and fantasies of other women .

Whilst the wife is being made out to be coasting I suggest she is intuitive In how he feels towards her and the things he has been doing ie fantasising about women he works with , not being attracted to her etc and shrewd to not get pregnant to him
I have also been this woman ! I never coasted at all but I did make the very wise decision go to have any more children with my first husband when he started behaving in a very similar way to the op

@Marshmallowmom

We are reading different things between the lines. I am as entitled to my opinion as you are of yours.

I am not sure about her wanting children so much and how it tallies with thinking the marriage might end. To me, if you want children you do something about it and it sounds like the only time she has ever come out fully saying she desperately wants kids is when you said you wanted to end the relationship.

I understand you have not communicated with each other very well but is what I’ve written true? Has she ever expressed any strong desire to ha e kids other than very recently?

I also think it’s a real shame you passed up opportunities to work abroad because of her resistance to change. Which also begs the question / if all of this really is a massive fear of change how would she cope with pregnancy and having a baby which is basically the biggest and most life-altering change most of us ever experience?

[quote Lochie662]@Marshmallowmom

We are reading different things between the lines. I am as entitled to my opinion as you are of yours.[/quote]
On that we most certainly agree !

@Marshmallowmom

I don't know why you have a problem with me, but I really would prefer it is you just let me be. I haven't been rude to anyone. My opinion is as valid as yours. I don't judge you for having yours.

I have no problem with you at all And don’t understand why you would think that me agreeing that we each have a right to our own opine equates to me having a problem with you

I’ve had a chat with a friend who is psychiatrist, he said it’s not particularly uncommon when you’ve wanted children for a long. It did just become a means to an end, and when it didn’t happen it started to feel like a chore. I should have got professional help years ago

I think you are looking at it from the 'wanting children' point of view.

Just, for a moment, imagine that your wife doesn't actually want children. What is she left with - a man who is only interested in her once a month.

How do you think that would make her feel? She values your company, friendship and partnership. But does she really feel valued for herself? I think not.

I'm starting to think that if I am going to be able to have the life I crave, the right thing to do is move on. I also feel as though me moving on is the right thing to do for her - because she deserves someone who truly adores her for who she is, and who makes her happy

This really reminds me of my Ex, who was constantly saying that he was leaving me for ‘my sake’. You want validation? Guilt free leaving? That is not fair to ask, you know you are leaving for you. So just so it but don’t pretend for a minute your are doing it for her.

@IceCreamSummer20

I'm starting to think that if I am going to be able to have the life I crave, the right thing to do is move on. I also feel as though me moving on is the right thing to do for her - because she deserves someone who truly adores her for who she is, and who makes her happy

This really reminds me of my Ex, who was constantly saying that he was leaving me for ‘my sake’. You want validation? Guilt free leaving? That is not fair to ask, you know you are leaving for you. So just so it but don’t pretend for a minute your are doing it for her.

There is probably an element of wanting validation, and relieving the feeling of guilt a bit. But as marshmallow has made very clear, there is no way she can be truly happy given the lack of intimacy and affection over the last couple of years, so I don't think its necessarily wrong of me to think that actually by leaving I could be doing her a favour in the long run. As another poster mentioned before, I'm sure there's plenty of men out there who'd be willing to take my place, and right now would do a much better job of it that I've been doing. And there is a genuine concern that, whilst she tells me she is happy, how would she felt in 5, 10 years if things didn't improve? I'm sure there'd be a braking point for her. Perhaps if she had better self esteem she'd have left me already.

To be honest, the way I'm feeling right now is that I should go home and try to make the marriage work. But I'll only do this if I'm sure I can make the changes I need to make, for her to be happy. The fact we've put everything on the table and finally started communicating might make us stronger. Maybe this is the shake up our relationship needed. Perhaps I can see a therapist for my low libido, perhaps together we can see a therapist, to make sure we keep moving in the right direction. She is a very kind hearted and funny woman and I enjoy her company. In response to Lochie's question, yes I think I would look twice if I saw her today.

@Fairenuff

I’ve had a chat with a friend who is psychiatrist, he said it’s not particularly uncommon when you’ve wanted children for a long. It did just become a means to an end, and when it didn’t happen it started to feel like a chore. I should have got professional help years ago

I think you are looking at it from the 'wanting children' point of view.

Just, for a moment, imagine that your wife doesn't actually want children. What is she left with - a man who is only interested in her once a month.

How do you think that would make her feel? She values your company, friendship and partnership. But does she really feel valued for herself? I think not.

Yeah I'm genuinely aware of this, I know that she can't be happy with the lack of affection and that I'm not meeting her needs. That's why I feel as though me leaving, whilst painful in the short term, could actually mean she ends up happier. Whilst IceCream doesn't believe that I think this is important, I genuinely do. I guess a concern of mine though, is that I wonder whether the problems I've been having with sex are about me, not about her. So it doesn't matter who I'm with, I'll just be the same. In which case I end up alone and unhappy. Perhaps I should be looking at myself a little closer and getting help to understand why my libido has dried up. I know she'd stand by me whilst I do and perhaps it will help get our marriage back on track.

No offence but shouldn't you know by now if you're ready to make the changes needed? You should be totally focused on that. When will you know, a year down the line? two?

And you do not sound like a man who would look at your wife twice today. You actively avoid intimacy. You do know that you are supposed to want to have sex with your wife? You do know that she should have someone that desires her? You only have sex to procreate and you're what 39 years old?

You keep sleepwalking through your life, denying the obvious. Marshmallow is very right about something. You are a coward and it's your wife that's getting hurt because if it.

I think pretty much you could be my husband
He denies this but I feel deep down this is how he feels
I just wish he'd been honest and let me be with someone who wants me

@MaeDanvers

I am not sure about her wanting children so much and how it tallies with thinking the marriage might end. To me, if you want children you do something about it and it sounds like the only time she has ever come out fully saying she desperately wants kids is when you said you wanted to end the relationship.

I understand you have not communicated with each other very well but is what I’ve written true? Has she ever expressed any strong desire to ha e kids other than very recently?

I also think it’s a real shame you passed up opportunities to work abroad because of her resistance to change. Which also begs the question / if all of this really is a massive fear of change how would she cope with pregnancy and having a baby which is basically the biggest and most life-altering change most of us ever experience?

Yes there is truth to this. She did only open up about wanting children when I told her I was leaving. I do believe her, but I also think that as much as she wants them, she is also terrified of the life altering changes that you describe. I don't doubt she would be a good mother, whilst she is afraid of change, she is a lot better at coping with it than she realizes. In fact much better than me.

In Gutwrenching's defence... is in not that they both dont have feelings and neither one is in a position to make the first move?

@hopingtobedally

I think pretty much you could be my husband He denies this but I feel deep down this is how he feels I just wish he'd been honest and let me be with someone who wants me

That's given me a lot to think about. Thank you for your comment.

@GrantI

In Gutwrenching's defence... is in not that they both dont have feelings and neither one is in a position to make the first move?

But his wife loves her husband and wants to have sex with him. She's not lying about this. She's only unhappy about her husband's lack of attention and avoidance of intimacy.

I still don't believe her "fear of failure" stopped her trying for a child. I believe she's never felt that strongly about it. I have been in the position of trying to conceive a much wanted second child, this doesn't ring true. But who knows.

I'm tending to agree with @Marshmallowmom a lot more than I did.

@Lochie662

No offence but shouldn't you know by now if you're ready to make the changes needed? You should be totally focused on that. When will you know, a year down the line? two?

And you do not sound like a man who would look at your wife twice today. You actively avoid intimacy. You do know that you are supposed to want to have sex with your wife? You do know that she should have someone that desires her? You only have sex to procreate and you're what 39 years old?

You keep sleepwalking through your life, denying the obvious. Marshmallow is very right about something. You are a coward and it's your wife that's getting hurt because if it.

Yes I tend to agree with all of this. I suppose what I am starting to think is that the intimacy problems are about me, not her. That she is the victim of my low libido, not the cause of it. Even though we never really talked about trying for children, we have been having unprotected sex for most of our marriage. Obviously earlier in the marriage it was more frequent. And when she never got pregnant, I got frustrated and my attitude towards sex became that it was about procreating, rather than pleasure. This got worse and worse until I found myself where I am today. When I say I'm not attracted to her, that's probably not really true. The reality is that because I rarely feel aroused, I've convinced myself that its because I don't fancy her. I probably need therapy/counselling.

See I have had this conversation so many times over the past 15 odd years with my husband. I just want him to be honest. It's killing me this lack of intimacy and affection. I just know in his actions he doesn't desire me yet he just will not be honest is it because of the kids or the house or what? Whatever it is it's bloody cruel and I want more from life

Actually when I say 'starting to think', I suppose that's probably not true. I think I've been pretty open throughout this thread on the fact that life experiences have given me a dysfunctional perspective of sex with my wife. I suppose where I've been selfish is that I should have gone to see a therapist for help about this as soon as it started. If could get it back I absolutely would. I do worry that if I can't its no life for her, that in a few years she'd crack and just leave me anyway. Right now I actually feel terrified about meeting someone new and not being able to satisfy them sexually, because the problem is with me.

@hopingtobedally

See I have had this conversation so many times over the past 15 odd years with my husband. I just want him to be honest. It's killing me this lack of intimacy and affection. I just know in his actions he doesn't desire me yet he just will not be honest is it because of the kids or the house or what? Whatever it is it's bloody cruel and I want more from life

I'm so sorry to hear this, and I feel terrible that I've been putting my wife through the same. Have you considered that the problem might be with him, not you? It may well be that he is having issues caused by stress, depression or anxiety, and that whilst he loves you very much he isn't showing it because he's dealing with his own issues? It may well be that he has a low sex drive due to something which is entirely independent from you, but that the shame of it prevents him from being affectionate. I'm certainly starting to think that that is the case for me. I've come to the realization that I need to try counselling, and to fix my own issues.