He doesn't want to marry me, does he?

[poppiesredfred]

I've been with my boyfriend for 2 years and we live together. Back in April, he surprised me one morning when I came downstairs and he was playing a song on Alexa and said 'this would be a great first dance song at our wedding' and then pulled out a Haribo ring. He's a joker and I laughed and said 'yeah, would be amazing!' but he said he was serious. I spent the rest of the day in shock, asking him if he was serious as a) I know he loves me but I didn't think in a 'I want to be with you for the rest of my life' kind of way and b) he is such a joker. We've both been married before for context. Both marriages have had divorces finalised years ago and he's had a relationship since where they were engaged but never married as she wanted the ring but not him. She gave him the ring back when he asked.

He then said 'let's get married next year but we can't tell anyone yet though...I want to tell everyone at the end of the year'. I still can't fathom out why but I know he wants some sort of finance agreement with his ex finalised first and that appears to be the reason. There is also no ring.... he does, however, still have his ex's engagement ring in a box (v. expensive and was made to his specifications) upstairs. He has made no move to sell the ring, despite needing money at various points, and stating all of our relationship he wants to sell it asap. I've paid large bills for him during our relationship that this money would have helped towards.

He came to me a couple of weeks ago and asked me how I'd feel about a 'cheap ring'. I said fine, no problem - whatever you choose is fine by me because you've chosen it so I'll love it'. He said he wanted us to go together to a specific place (where the stone he wants is sold) to choose it together. We have a free weekend this weekend so I suggested we go to this place. At first he looked a bit 'deer in the headlights' by it, then came an hour later and said 'that's a great idea, we could choose it then go to this place and that restaurant etc'. All fine until today when he's backtracked completely and now wants to go nowhere near the place... this is after last night when we visited a local restaurant, he randomly told the waiter there 'might' be a big event next year, then corrected it to 'oh, there IS a big event' when he saw me sat there like

I'm so puzzled and don't get it at all. I want the excitement of the man I love asking me to marry him and being able to share the joy with our family and friends. But it's all a big secret and no ring in sight.

What is going on? Can anyone enlighten me.....? Am I being led along?

'he said the reason he wants to wait until the end of the year is it's mother's birthday and he wants to surprise her'

For some reason I think this little gem is as telling as anything else! Because, sure, parental birthdays are always a big consideration when it comes to engagements Bizarre choice of on-the-spot excuse!

Sounds like you are doing a sterling job OP. I agree with those advising you to cut your losses and put him behind you. Fresh start.

What, as in "Surprise! I've managed to successfully cocklodge my way onto someone's property deeds without paying a penny! Oh, and I made her pay for her own engagement ring!"

What a dickhead. You're well shot love.

You have written confirmation of a debt and some repayments - and it is not expensive it difficult to take someone to small claims court.

I had a problem with a narcissist and was able to control the situation with a solicitor (not saying you should get one) and he went quietly in the end.

There's a lot to be said for regaining some control and evening things up - others may not agree but I'm in business and do not find things like this stressful. Many people don't. What I DO find stressful is the idea of losing £6k and being taken for a ride.

So with the greatest of respect people, not everyone wants to just walk away. I know most women do and would and it's why they get screwed over - but not all. I would feel far worse if I didn't take a stand on this if I was the OP.

There is clearly a loan - it does not have to be a loan agreement.

OP hang onto the ring as 'security'. It's almost certainly worth nothing but he wants it. Get him to admit the loan further (if you can) and take him to small claims court.

This is pretty straightforward legally I would have thought.

OP I’ve just read all your posts and seen this unfold. Well done on coming to this point and untangling yourself. Don’t spend too much time beating yourself up, plenty of people have found themselves wrapped up with manipulators like this... the point is you are getting out (ever seen Dirty John on Netflix?!). Having been there myself, I would just say battle down the hatches for when the adrenaline that you are needing to have now subsides. At the moment you are in a necessary phase of action... long may that continue. However, at times the ‘loss’ of who he wanted you to think he was may be tough. Especially if things go wrong with his ex and he decides to up his charm offensive with you. I went through very similar... one thing that helped was writing out a list of the odd, manipulative and downrightabusive things he had done. Then, whenever the rose tinted memories came back, I would use the list as my reality check. That helped me to stay clear of him... to have the time I needed alone, and to eventually be ready to meet a lovely partner where respect and balance are key. Well done, keep going... am here cheering you on x

It changes things legally if he gets married and no financial settlement has been made. Can't remember how, legal advice would be to get this sorted before he gets remarried.

Good idea re keeping the ring. Get it valued (so he can’t claim it’s worth a fortune) and tell him he can have it back when he has paid back what he owes you. Not sure where this would stand legally but no way would I be giving the ring back.

You would be better off having it valued, then telling him the ring has been valued at X amount, as agreed per written agreement you owe me X still outstanding so the ring will be resold to recoup the amount owing.
Would that be legal? Or would OP be leaving herself open to legal prosecution? Unfair I know..

@poppiesredfred
Don't forget to get a locksmith in today to change the locks in ALL your external doors. Don't assume he won't have keys as he may have had duplicates cut. It's something a person this devious would do. 🌹

Ignore my post, hadn't read further on, stay strong, you can do this.

@poppiesredfred As PP have said, you've done extremely well - your instincts told you things weren't right, you canvassed opinions and you've acted on them. Your more recent updates have shown that there was other abusive behaviour also - smashing things and throwing things when he didn't get his own way - including at you which is why you had bruises. This man is an abuser and extremely skilled at it.

You were taken in because you are a kind person who wants to believe the best about people, which are good qualities, and you were vulnerable. No shame on you at all. Abusers are deeply skilled manipulators. Your instincts were strong and kicked in to protect you when you most needed them to do so. You may find it interesting to read "The Mind of the Intimate Male Abuser: How He Gets Into Her Head" by Don Hennessy. The author, who has worked with abused female partners and their male abusers for decades, makes clear how easy it is to be manipulated by these people. Abusers typically have great charm and are capable of being very warm and loving - that's one way in which they keep their abused partners in thrall; another is by invading their psyche. So absolutely no shame on you at all.

I confess I haven't quite RTFT so not sure what arrangement you have finally made re. his stuff. I would advise against throwing any of it away or of using any of it to pay of his debts to you. That could really backfire on you. And you are also (probably rightly) concerned that he will try to make out that you have stolen the ring or otherwise interfered with his stuff. In your shoes, I think I would be inclined to arrange for him to walk round inside the house and collect his stuff but make sure you have a large man or two in the house (friend, family member etc) in front of whom this man is much less likely to misbehave (I wouldn't invite him in otherwise). Unfortunately, I don't think having women present will have the desired effect since deep down this man despises women. You are actually escaping from a domestic abuse situation so I think the presence of these reliable men in the house would be permissible. You can all escort him round the house while he gets everything - makes it much harder for him to argue that anything has been tampered with or kept. Anyway, just a thought.

If he continues with the unpleasant messages, you could report him to the police and/or apply for a non-molestation order.

As to the amounts you loaned him, money claim on line is a reasonable quick and cheap way of pursuing him. Given the amounts, this would be classed a small claim so there will be no costs awarded (yours or his). The system is designed for people to use it without lawyer involvement. You might not recover anything but you could have a go.

Morning OP, well this has moved on quickly! Well done.

Keeping the ring and selling it to pay your debts is tempting but very risky without a court judgment confirming that he owes you money (which you may not get and by which time he'll have taken the ring). Otherwise, he could just make out you've stolen the ring. And as PP have said, it's probably not really worth much at all. Certainly not enough to make it worth the trouble selling it could cause you.

I didn’t suggest selling the ring; just holding onto it for now to retain a bit of leverage to getting the rest of the money back.

Yikes.
OP, he's really done a number on you but this type of person is very practiced and very good at it (been there, got the T shirt).
I'd consider the money long gone. The ring is not worth much.
You are angry, you have been badly wronged, but it will be exhausting to try to chase it - is it worth it to you, emotionally?
I'd change the locks, check your credit history, cut any financial ties.

He is a Fraudster - but you woke up in time. WELL DONE YOU xxx

@poppiesredfred You mustn't feel angry with yourself or the least bit embarrassed. You are not the one who has behaved badly here. Be very kind and loving to yourself, as you would a good friend, and keep your anger directed at him. He should be completely ashamed of himself.

Thinking of you X 💐

Don't blame yourself in this at all, these types are skilled at manipulation and story telling. You've spotted it before any real damage was done. Well done you, there will be time for a few tears but make sure you celebrate too!

This guy has con man written all over him I’m afraid OP, tell him you will stay just as you are and I can guarantee 6 months down the line he will lose interest.

There you go - money claim online courtesy of Dery. So you CAN claim that money from him. Small claims court is easy too.

Hang onto the ring as security (does anyone think if you can't claim an acknowledged loan that he can claim for an undocumented ring? Seriously??)

That book has been recommended over and over too, and reading it will put the pieces together for you.

I would like to change the thread title to - I really don't want to marry this man, do I! And if it was in AIBU it would get 99% approval - allowing for 1% of nutters.

Do what you are able to get the best closure on this you can. You deserve much much more than being treated as this person has treated you, without doubt.

he has aspirations fantasies of being a landlord and property developer grifting women's properties but and has no money or regular income.

Fixed that for you OP.

@tarasmalatarocks if you can't be arsed to RTFT at least read the last 5 or so posts. Or hey stretch yourself and read the last page even!

Sorry you’re going through this OP. You’re doing the right thing. He’s a horrible money grabbing arse.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Q in the Ex’s ring is QVC imitation diamonds 😂
(Incidentally I love those rings but he’s just gone on about it so much it’s pathetic). If so you won’t need to pay a dear insured shipping price to send it back!

💐

Don’t post ring back. He could say it was an empty box! Get friend to video him getting ring back. Or a witness to sign with both parties present.

We live together but the house is in my name as I bought it with my divorce settlement and an inheritance from my mother. He asked, in a casual conversation, how it could be made more equal and I said either I change the deeds or we get married, I think that's the only way. This proposal has come afterwards. He's been out of work for various periods of our relationship which is when I have paid his bills - trying to be supportive

You're surely not going to marry him and put his name on your house, are you? Life is not a fairy story - People come along with an eye on what they can get out of you. Don't let love goggles and the dream of being a wife blind you to reality. Living in your home but you paid his big bills; he'd been working, didn't he have some money put aside?

Plus he sounds financially irresponsible ie broke as fuck. Can you please think more of yourself than giving all your life cards to a man who will end up making you as broke as he is, added to that he's messing you about regarding getting married and you're putting up with it. Is it that important to be married now/to marry him in particular? Boundaries and self-worth are 2 things that could be quietly thought about at this time.

You're surely not going to marry him and put his name on your house, are you?

No because she's broken up with him since her first post.

I know not everyone reads the full thread but it's so unhelpful for poor OP to have people still making her feel even shittier for staying with him as long as she did, just because they didn't read her updates.

There's a filter option now so you can see only OP's updates and it stops stuff like this happening.

what a disgusting man.