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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I’m a family law barrister - AMA

152 replies

Paperlantern123 · 26/06/2020 15:46

It’s a sweltering Friday in lockdown, my work is all done for the day, and I though this might be a fun thing to do while I lie on my sofa drinking an iced coffee and trying not to melt! I’ve seen them done before and they look quite interesting

I’m a fully qualified barrister in London, specialising in private children matters, matrimonial finance, and domestic violence. I’d like to think I’m the proverbial MN Shit Hot Lawyer (TM) but you’d have to ask my clients...

I would be happy to answer any questions you might have - about my job, my experiences of working in family law, etc. I can’t offer specific advice, because so much varies from case to case, but I can certainly try and offer general guidance. Go on, ask my anything!

OP posts:
Merryoldgoat · 26/06/2020 15:48

Do you think the removal of legal aid has led to poor outcomes for children?

MobLife · 26/06/2020 15:48

If you could give a woman one piece of advice before she enters in to marriage and child rearing then what would it be?

InsaneInTheViralMembrane · 26/06/2020 15:49

Yes! Can you please hit Scottish law with a big hammer so I can divorce my DV husband without his explicit agreement?

ThisMustBeMyDream · 26/06/2020 15:49

From my personal experience - the only time court seem to listen is when my OH pays for a barrister. Why is that, when legal aid was removed so many are self repping? He said the same thing in court, wasn't listened to. Went back 6 months later when it had fallen apart - took a barrister he couldn't afford, and the outcome was much improved.

PicsInRed · 26/06/2020 15:52

Interesting AMA, thanks for stepping up to the plate here, OP.

Mine: When do you expect the crime of coercive control, and the associated abuse of children to control/punish the mother, will be taken seriously by the family court and genuinely incorporated into judgments?

readingismycardio · 26/06/2020 16:00

If you could give a woman one piece of advice before she enters in to marriage and child rearing then what would it be?

Totally this!!!

IrenetheQuaint · 26/06/2020 16:04

Do you do both private and legally aided work?

And do you think there is any substance to the claims of men's rights activists that lpte of mothers alienate children from non-resident fathers?

icedaisy · 26/06/2020 16:04

@InsaneInTheViralMembrane you can, 1 year with agreement, 2 years without in Scotland.

Paperlantern123 · 26/06/2020 16:06

Wow, thanks everyone! Let me give this a go.
@Merryoldgoat - so I qualified after the big legal aid cuts were introduced, and can’t really speak to what things were like before. Therefore I’m not sure about whether outcomes were better previously. I also work at a chambers that doesn’t take on any legal aid work, only privately paying. What I will say is that in my practice, in small money cases, DV injunctions, children arrangements etc. I’m very often against litigants in person, who I am sure would have received legal aid were this happening 10 years previously. It makes everyone’s job so much harder: mine, the court’s, CAFCASS... I have a lot of empathy for LiPs, who are trying their best in a system they don’t just fully understand. It’s not in the interests of justice that these people don’t have representation.

OP posts:
LongPauseNoReply · 26/06/2020 16:07

Why was I told by my barrister that I'd look "grabby and petty" to go after ex for child support when we were already battling to get him to agree to a passport? Pick your battles I was told ....

InsaneInTheViralMembrane · 26/06/2020 16:08

icedaisy not if there are children and he doesn’t agree to the way the children are “split”.

Paperlantern123 · 26/06/2020 16:09

@MobLife - I suppose to fully understand the ramifications of your decision to marry and have children. The decision whether or not to have children is the biggest economic choice a woman will ever make; whether or not to marry is second. So go into it with your eyes open: consider whether or not marriage is actually in your financial interests. And I would also say have discussions about finances! It’s amazing to me how many clients are a decade or so into their relationship, have children, and yet are unaware of how much their spouse earns, if they have pension provision, if they’re on the same page about being a SAHP, whether they think finances should be shared... These are very much conversations that need to be had prior to marriage; it would save a lot of heartache.

OP posts:
cakeandchampagne · 26/06/2020 16:12

If you weren’t working in law, what career would you have chosen?

Paperlantern123 · 26/06/2020 16:12

Sorry, trying to keep up here!
@InsaneInTheViralMembrane - haha I’m sorry, would love to, but don’t think my powers extend that far...
@ThisMustBeMyDream - without knowing the ins and outs of that specific situation, I would suppose that a barrister ‘knows the game’ and so knows what submissions are appropriate and when. As an example, I often find that when I’m against a litigant in person at a FHDRA (first hearing in children’s proceedings), they will want to adduce all sorts of evidence, make submissions, cross examine my client, etc. They don’t understand that the hearing is purely for directions, and the judge will not consider that at that time. The time for those issues is a fact finding or final hearing. So that could be it: it’s not just who it’s being said by, but WHEN it’s being said.

OP posts:
Paperlantern123 · 26/06/2020 16:17

@PicsInRed - in my experience, judges are really waking up to coercive control. I see a big growth in judges willing to pay attention to the fact that a partner has been controlling, and that that is abuse in its own right. The difficulty is that that type of abuse can be difficult to document - if you have records of being called 20-30 times day, messaged constantly, having had a tracker placed on your car, then great. But we all know that coercive control can be much more subtle than that, and the difficulty is showing that to a judge.

OP posts:
ThisMustBeMyDream · 26/06/2020 16:19

I wish it was that. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case. My OH is in a very good position against many in the same situation - educated, can follow procedures, understand instructions, able to read the room and respond appropriately without getting overly emotional. At the final hearings he just doesn't get listened to, when the barrister saying the same thing, does. That just seems crazy to both of us.

Paperlantern123 · 26/06/2020 16:21

@IrenetheQuaint - I’ve already answered this above; my chambers only does privately funded work.

As for MRA and the claims of parental alienation... This definitely exists, but it is extremely rare. I can only think of one case I’ve been exposed to in my practice so far where this happened, and it was very obvious and undeniable. So while I don’t deny that there are parents out there who deliberately seek to alienate children from the other parent, I think that unfortunately it’s an allegation that gets thrown round too much

OP posts:
WutheringTights · 26/06/2020 16:21

How difficult is it to find a training place, tenancy etc? I'm a senior finance professional (v senior accountant at Big 4 firm) but my dream is to retrain as a family law solicitor or barrister once the kids leave home and we're fairly financially secure. It's something I wanted to do when younger (law graduate) but at the time I needed financial security so trained as an accountant. Do you see many career changers? Would a older pupil face more difficulties than someone fresh out of university?

HopelesslydevotedtoGu · 26/06/2020 16:23

Have you ever had concerns for child wellbeing related to your client's aims - eg if your client appeared to be vindictively trying to stop their ex have appropriate contact with the children for example? In that case would the Barrister usually follow their client's instructions, or insist on a more balanced case?

Could the court process be modified to make it easier and fairer for Litigants in Person? Do you think this will be done?

How often do you secretly think the Judge has reached the wrong conclusion?

Do you get client's seeking their "free half hour" of legal advice as is often advised on mumsnet?!

Thanks for answering.

Onceuponatimethen · 26/06/2020 16:24

I’m thinking of trying to get my oh to enter a post nup. He is slightly reluctant as I’m the person with the better off parents.

My suggested terms would be that each person keeps any lifetime gifts from their own family if the marriage ends.

I feel like I’m stuck in a catch 22 though! How can anyone persuade a partner to do one of these without it being invalid as you’ve put pressure on them?

I appreciate we would have to pay for us both to get legal advice

Onceuponatimethen · 26/06/2020 16:24

Separately I meant

Gnarlytoe · 26/06/2020 16:25

My daughter is currently studying A level Law, English and RE with the plan to study Law at University.

Is a law degree diverse enough that she’ll find work eventually even if she isn’t successful at becoming an actual lawyer?

I wouldn’t tell her this but I’m not sure she has the resilience to become a lawyer, she’d go to pieces in a court environment or if things became tense or dangerous. She loves all things Law though so she must find her way I guess.

Onceuponatimethen · 26/06/2020 16:25

In hindsight feel I should have insisted on a prenup Confused

HopelesslydevotedtoGu · 26/06/2020 16:25

Another question - if you have children yourself, has that changed how you practice family law?

Paperlantern123 · 26/06/2020 16:27

@LongPauseNoReply - I’m very surprised you received that advice. Obviously I don’t know the specifics of your case, but on first glance, I would say that there’s nothing grabby about wanting to have your child provided for, and that you are entitled to maintenance for the benefit of your child. Very odd!

@cakeandchampagne - honestly, I really don’t know. Thank God I’m doing this, because I don’t think I’m suited to anything else! Maybe... teaching? But I know that in reality I would probably find that extremely hard.

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