I’m a family law barrister - AMA

[Paperlantern123]

It’s a sweltering Friday in lockdown, my work is all done for the day, and I though this might be a fun thing to do while I lie on my sofa drinking an iced coffee and trying not to melt! I’ve seen them done before and they look quite interesting

I’m a fully qualified barrister in London, specialising in private children matters, matrimonial finance, and domestic violence. I’d like to think I’m the proverbial MN Shit Hot Lawyer (TM) but you’d have to ask my clients...

I would be happy to answer any questions you might have - about my job, my experiences of working in family law, etc. I can’t offer specific advice, because so much varies from case to case, but I can certainly try and offer general guidance. Go on, ask my anything!

@tootrusting thanks so much for your reply - I was noncontentious and am now completely out of date re advocacy - what is the difference between your rights of advocacy in comparison with a barrister, and how often do you get solicitor advocates representing in the family court instead of barristers? Also, is there a need for family solicitors, what is the market like? Thanks!

I should add to the above that we plan to book an initial session with a solicitor to get some advice when life settles down (and we can actually both be free for such an appointment and not always having children with us). But I want to do my research in the meantime.

@DreamingofSunshine

Thank you for doing this thread.

In terms of spousal support, would it be awarded to a wife who gave up her career to move abroad do her husband could take a better job; and then became a SAHM because she couldn't work in that country? I know you can't comment on a specific case but is this the type of situation where it might be awarded?

Yes, that’s the kind of case where spousal maintenance is more likely to be ordered - but depending on her age and the age of the children, I would still expect it to have a term.

@biggiebiggiebiggie

In your experience, how likely is a judge to order alternative weekends of a 1 year old if access has been sparse through out that year? After being originally advised it was likely 2 years old, I am now being advised to drop it and agree to it straight away to save a final hearing. Ex is very unlikely to agree to anything that isn't what he has asked for and as the fees for the final hearing are unmanageable, I'm trying to figure out if I should push on with my request and self represent or give in.

I think a judge would want there to be alternate weekends eventually. The reason for the delay wouldn’t be the age of the child, per se, but because it would probably be easier for them to adjust if contact was ‘stepped’, i.e. gradually increased. The introduction of overnight contact in particular is generally a real watershed moment for children. So I think a court would be looking to set out a plan for contact to gradually increase over a set period of time (perhaps 4-6 months) to culminate in alternative weekends. That’s the kind of proposal I would make: something gradual and child-focused. It does depend what arrangements are already in place, though. I don’t think moving on to alternative weekends immediately is child-focused, but also think a year away is too long.

Would I be really silly to not wait the 28 days for pension sharing order to go through after financial order has been approved by the court before I apply for the absolute?
I know it’s just me being impatient but I just want rid of the b*stard!

@pineapplesareyellow

Thanks for doing this interesting thread.

I have a few questions please;

It seems to me that there are some flaws in the system. Eg. Following our FDR, as a small part of our Consent Order, my ex was supposed to sell an asset of ours and split the proceeds with me. He didn't do it. Short of taking him back to court there wasn't much I could do about it. Basically unless someone does what the Order says, there isn't a way of enforcing it without incurring more cost? (it was a long while ago now so I'm not planning on doing anything, but just wondering how enforceable these things actually are?).

Is ongoing spousal maintenance still a thing or has it mostly been phased out? (in the case of high earners & SAHM)

Thank you :)

You’re right, your remedy would be to take your ex back to court for enforcement - this would include some cost to you, but if you were successful (which it sounds like you should be!) you should get an order for your ex to meet your costs, too. I’m not sure that I would necessarily call this a flaw in the system, as I’m not sure what a solution would be... Unfortunately, there are some people who just don’t want to comply with court orders - and that’s when enforcement comes into play.

Re Spousal maintenance - take a look at my answer to @Bunchofbarnacles just up thread, where I answer this. The key thing to know is that spousal maintenance is to enable a party to adjust without undue hardship, per the statute. I think judges are far more likely now than they were in the past to expect parties to get back to work.

@Cloudyday123

Would I be really silly to not wait the 28 days for pension sharing order to go through after financial order has been approved by the court before I apply for the absolute? I know it’s just me being impatient but I just want rid of the b*stard!

Yep, hang on in there for 28 days!! It’s unlikely, but he could be hit by a bus in those 28 days (I’m not commenting on whether or not this would be welcome news for you, haha...) and if the pension share isn’t through, you’d be screwed. You’ve waited this long, just wait a little longer!

@saint (and apologies to OP I don't want to hijack the thread)
Unless you qualify for higher audience rights (which I haven't) you'd generally do your own advocacy at interlocutory hearings and not final hearings.
Yes there's a massive need for matrimonial solicitors.

Generally the higher the level of your work (in terms of asset value essentially) the less advocacy you'd expect to do and you'd rely more on Counsel to conduct even run of the mill interlocutory hearings. It is a different skill and requires a lot of prep and if you have a busy day to day practice you wouldn't have the time to do a lot of your own advocacy.

It depends what interests/ignites you the most. I love the day to day client contact, putting together a case, the complexities and subtleties of drafting documents (eg statements) and dealing with my opponents. That is where my strengths lie. I'm not a great advocate - I find it hard not to interrupt and to gather my thoughts while at the same time listening to the other party's submissions. I'm better on paper than I am on my feet. When I do have to do it I prepare exhaustively and generally do well but I don't enjoy it.
The buck stops with you. The barrister only knows what you have told them/included in the papers. It's you who are expected to know the documents back to front and where to find specific information at the drop of a hat.

@saintherblain

In my life before dc I was a successful city solicitor specialising in a niche area of contract law working for a silver circle firm. Am currently a SAHM. I have a strong desire to become a family law barrister. What chance do I have? Is there much of a need or are there too many of you? Would it cost an arm and a leg? I was told that I was pretty shit hot at advocacy at law school by the barrister training us and that I would end up being a barrister whether I thought I would or not

Hi Sain, see my reply to @WutheringTights at 16:33 where I set out the rough numbers of pupillages available per year, versus the number of applicants... As you’ll see, it’s extremely competitive to secure pupillage, and it gets more difficult with each passing year. Having said that, I’m sure that you must have a pretty stellar CV to have been working in the silver circle, and that would also be extremely valuable experience, so perhaps you could stand out from the crowd of applicants. I don’t feel qualified to comment on career changing because I went straight into the Bar, but I would encourage you to reach out to people who have (it will say on their chambers’ profile if they were previously a solicitor) to ask for their experience. Regarding costs - the BPTC cost c.£20k when I did it (gulp!) although I met that cost almost entirely through scholarships. And the course has been slightly redesigned recently, and is now a little cheaper - around £13-15k.

@TooTrusting

Saint, what about becoming a family solicitor? You wouldn't have to convert then. There are plenty of advocacy opportunities. I like the fact that as a solicitor I have a holistic experience. I work with client from start to finish. The barrister comes and goes and you can't always get the same one. We do most of the client interfacing, all the preparation and direction of the case. In more complex cases, or ones with particularly difficult tactical considerations, we sometimes bring the barrister in at an early stage.

@OP when I first started practicing barristers didn't charge by the hour. But whenever I've sought a brief fee quote in the last 10 years approx I've always been told there is an hourly rate and the fee is strictly based on that. I practiced in London for 15 years and provincially for 10 but still do a lot of work in/near London and using London chambers.

This is a really great overview of the differences between the roles of a solicitor and a barrister I think. It’s funny, because the things you mention liking about being a solicitor (mostly doing client interfacing) are things that I’m glad I can mostly avoid! Clearly we’re each suited to our roles, haha. Re fees - I know when my clerks give estimates for hearing fees, they try to have a rough idea of how long my prep will be. But the only time they actually charge by the hour is when I’m drafting an advice. I would imagine this varies from set to set though.

@Needtogetbackinthesack

This is a lovely thread, thank you for starting it!

My (poor) experiences of Family court are making me want to do a phd looking at how the family court system enables further abuse by perpetrators in some circumstances. I've spoken to some other lawyers who say that the accusations of parental alienation are becoming problematic, and more women are losing custody when their exes have alleged PA. are there any other hot topics that you think could do with some research??

I’m not sure if this answers your question, but I would say that it’s incredible how often I’m involved in cases where one side (or often both) make allegations of parental alienation, emotional abuse, and/or being a narcissist. Probably more than 80% of the time, actually. I have certainly had cases where these allegations were 100% true, but I also feel that a lot of the time, they’re buzzwords that people have grabbed on to and are actually very far removed from reality. That they’re repeated so often makes the allegations less powerful I think - it’s easier for a judge to dismiss allegations of parental alienation when almost every parent makes that allegation.

@mindutopia

Where is the best place online I can find advice about creating legal guardianship for our dc if both Dh and I were to die, if we both feel very strongly that certain family members should have no contact with our children? Basically we want to assign guardianship to our friends upon our death while also barring close family from contact with them (they currently have no contact with our dc but they’re assholes and rich, so would probably cause trouble if we were off the scene).

I’m very sorry, this isn’t actually a topic I have experience of, and so I’m not able to advise or point you in any particular direction. The fact that you’re planning to see a solicitor soon will probably give you the clarity you need.

@OP I know!! I've often laughed about this with Counsel who can't understand why I enjoy it. You certainly have to be a certain personality type.
@saint do you know anyone who would give you work experience? I used to be a partner at one of the top tier London family practices and we were quite open to people like you. One of our most successful fee earners was an ex banker who joined us in her 40s. She started with work experience and it went from there. Her banking experience was very useful to all of us when there were particular investments or bonus set-ups that we didn't quite understand.

Sorry again for butting in.
@mindutopia you must appoint guardians in your Wills and you must each write a detailed letter of wishes to be kept with your Wills to say who you want the DCs to live with and why, and why you specifically don't want it to be blood-family members. Also deal with your wishes re their contact with their maternal/paternal families if you were to die.
If you both die, guardianship in your Will gives the guardians you appoint Parental Responsibility which is the legal right to make decisions about the DCs upbringing.
Anyone without PR (ie your surviving family members) could apply to the court to see the children or to have residence of them. But first of all they have to get permission to make that application. This is why it is important for you to set out your wishes and reasoning in a letter. The presumption will usually be that contact (and possibly residence) with the blood family is a positive thing. This is where your letter of wishes comes in. Also important to speak to the proposed guardians so they understand your reasons.
If you foresee a dispute after your death, you may wish to provide for a specific legal fees fund for the guardians in your Will because they may not have the funds to fight for what you want.

Thanks for doing this!

My questions is this

Divorced 6 years ago and children split 50/50, he kept marital home and bought me out with a clause to use his "best endeavours" to remove me from mortgage. He still hasn't done that and my solicitor has seen no evidence of any endeavours. He says he's tried

He now has new partner living with him in the house I am still named on mortgage and title deeds for. I want to get my own mortgage but I can't when I am tied to that one. Therefore I'm unable to secure perm housing for my children and it's really getting me down now

My solicitor says we can go to court and try to get the judge to force the sale of the house so that I am not interested he mortgage and can provide a home for my children on my own mortgage but it will be me funding all of this and legal costs court applications etc

Would you advise any differently?

@tootrusting all my contacts are commercial, our firm didn't do any family law, so the answer is no but I think you are right, many of the skills (if I have any after being a sahm) re practice are transferable. How much advocacy in court do you/your colleagues do just out of interest? How are solicitor advocates perceived? thanks for your ideas!

@OP thank you - I hadn't read whole thread so I missed your previous reply.

Please help me...... left my ex husband in 2014, three children, no maintenance ever, I’ve paid mortgage since on my own, he won’t divorce me.

My only interest is keeping my home. He lives in U.K. and I live in ROI. Thank you for any advice!

How can I get a divorce cheaply? We only have one asset, a house we own as joint tenants in common.

I would like a financial order and can complete the divorce application myself.

If a woman is married, separates but doesnt divorce..meets new partner and has child, who has parental rights, the husband or father named on birth cert?

Thank you for doing this post.

I'm going through trying to make contact arrangements with my ex partner at the minute. He had been in and out our daughter's life since she was months old, he has problems with alcohol misuse which is why I left the family home when she was just 3 months old. In this time it has been difficult to make any arrangements work. I haven't let my ex partner have the baby alone due to the drinking and I have helped along the way trying to offer support and taken him to appointments for addiction (at his request). He never follows through on anything however. He is very abusive to me when I don't do things the way he wishes so I decided to take a back seat and have contact arranged at his parents home as long as one of his family member where present to 'supervise' make sure he wasn't drinking. This started to become difficult because he then wanted the baby overnight which I wasn't prepared to do because they have n IP for a baby, place to eat, baby gates appropriate bed and the thought of him possibly drinking and sleeping next to the baby just terrifies me. I asked him to go to mediation he refused so I then told him he would need to seek a solicitor for contact as I couldn't mentally deal with the situation anymore and needed to move forward. His family member also lied to me about him being present when he was not on one occasion that I know of and they don't seem to understand the extend of the drinking. His solicitor has proposed set days per week however I rejected this as my solicitor has asked that he take a drugs and alcohol hair strand and begin contact firstly in a contact centre. He has rejected this and shaved his head. It has not gone to court yet but he has told me that it will be as he won't agree to the above. What is the likelyhood that the court will grant him access on these grounds or overnight access? Our baby is 15 months now. I strongly want a relationship for them but not one where she is at risk. His solicitor takes between 6 and 8 weeks to respond to anything and it's so much list time for the little one. I tried to let him see her now and again (in my company) but it always ends up with him being abusive to me or he makes facetime calls about me which just makes any communication so difficult and is the reason I asked him to take this route in the first place although I'm giving in because I hate the thought of my little one not knowing him by the time arrangements are in place. I really just want to cut contact with him for my own wellbeing but I think this would look bad to the courts?

I know they don't take maintenance into consideration but he doesn't pay a penny in maintenance and tells me he's not giving money to me because it's not his problem I left him and he doesn't see why he should help towards the roof over my head.

What would your take on this be in terms of contact arrangements ?

@Paperlantern123 thank you for answering my questions :)

One more please, If you have time. A male friend has been divorced for 5 years. His ex receives approx £4.5k pcm from spousal/child maintenance plus her own salary. Friend has had substantial pay increase as a high earner. Ex wants to go back to court for an increase as she is not v good at budgeting and thinks she is entitled to more now that he has more. I think she is being very unfair, and ridiculous and I really feel for my friend having to go back through the court process and drag up all his earning/spending again. He thinks it seems ridiculous and has been advised by his solicitor that she is very unlikely to win anything - he's thinking of representing himself to save the costs, so why is his ex's solicitor pushing so hard - is she seeing it as a fee earner, or is there a real case here?

@saint I don't do much because I don't like it. I probably do one e wry 6-8 weeks. When I was in London it was once in a blue moon (a few times when I was more junior, almost not at all latterly). I could have chosen to do more but was so busy in London that it was easier to instruct Counsel (which the clients could easily afford).

@saint to put that in context I probably had a hearing every week when I was in a London. Now it's more like once a month (I've taken on a slower pace with less clients)

Do you have an opinion on the more recent habit of 50/50 arrangements, where children have equal time with both parents - to what extent is this a good thing for children?

How do you deal with questions at, say, parties where people are clearly after free legal advice, particularly when it's about something completely unrelated to your area of practice? I usually get asked about family law or neighbour tree issues! Do family lawyers get asked about, I don't know, export controls or something?! It makes me laugh because you wouldn't ask an electrician to sort your plumbing problem and you certainly wouldn't ask him (or her) to sort it for free when he was at a party although you might take a phone number.