I’m a family law barrister - AMA

[Paperlantern123]

It’s a sweltering Friday in lockdown, my work is all done for the day, and I though this might be a fun thing to do while I lie on my sofa drinking an iced coffee and trying not to melt! I’ve seen them done before and they look quite interesting

I’m a fully qualified barrister in London, specialising in private children matters, matrimonial finance, and domestic violence. I’d like to think I’m the proverbial MN Shit Hot Lawyer (TM) but you’d have to ask my clients...

I would be happy to answer any questions you might have - about my job, my experiences of working in family law, etc. I can’t offer specific advice, because so much varies from case to case, but I can certainly try and offer general guidance. Go on, ask my anything!

@Paperlantern123
Thanks for this thread very interesting reading

There are times when all you can say to the judge is ‘well, sir/madam, those are my instructions.’ And I think everyone knows that’s code for ‘I have to make this point, so I have, but I have nothing to support it with.’

I work in the courts and we can all tell when counsel are put in this awful position. I notice that some judges are also quite skilled at communicating 'OK I see you, I understand these are bonkers instructions and I'm not going to let it harm your reputation in my courtroom' it sometimes oozes out of judgements too.

@pineapplesareyellow, does your friend think his children should have a lower quality of life than he himself enjoys due to his increased income?

@Paperlantern123 thanks for your response, I really appreciate it xx

Just a small addition to the advice on how to become a barrister: it is worth looking at mini Pupillages with Chambers who have family law barristers. You can apply for as many as you want and it’s your opportunity to find out what the barristers do. In addition get some experience in a family area of law. This could be via CAB, women’s advice centres, social services visits etc. The qualifications you have usually need to be enhanced with every day family advice.

@SecondRow I think maybe I didn't explain enough - I'm sorry, I was just trying to be concise. His children don't have a lower quality of life at all and live in a lovely house with their mum most of the time, and also have their own bedrooms at his home. He takes them on holiday at least once a year, they have his cc on their amazon, uber, deliveroo, etc, and he pays for their mobile phones, cars/car insurance etc, education, etc . His kids are his world and he buys them whatever they want and need. Also his ex, has a v nice standard of living so it isn't really about that. Sorry I may have been misleading. It isn't that he thinks they should have a lower quality of life, it is more a case of should his ex just be able to have more because he now has more, or should she be living within her (very generous) means. Eg she has the heating on all the time and the windows open, because effectively he is paying the bills, a lot of wastage of food, and that sort of thing. But honestly, they all have a similar standard of living. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Thank you for doing this. My question(s) are:
Sorry this will be lengthy.
How likely/easily can caffcass/family court people see through an abusive, manipulating, horrible bastard?
A family member's ex was physically violent throughout the marriage - police have reports and records of hospitalisation etc but no actual charge as he said it was burglars and the victim dropped it.
fast forward to almost 4 years after she got rid of him, their shared dd was happily seeing dad every weekend. The older dd who is not his has always hated him understandable to everyone really considering what she saw him do to her mum - 2 weeks into lock down she told mum that this bastard had also been sexually abusing her when she was younger (she's now 16)
He was arrested (released pending investigation NOT on bail with zero conditions!! that's another infuriating issue)
His dd obviously stopped from seeing him (she's 9) and no supervised contact initiated due to no centres being open because of covid.
Obviously he is still under criminal investigation because of this and obviously we hope that he will be charged and found guilty and imprisoned as then he will not be allowed contact but what if he doesn't.
Bare in mind we still are not 100% sure he has not done the same to his dd -she is currently being assessed for ASD so it can be quite difficult for her to express things in general.
How can courts be aware of allegations then still fight for the child to be forced to spend time with that parent. I understand, of course, innocent until proven guilty but that's not always true - innocent just sometimes means there wasn't enough evidence not that the person is innocent.
A family solicitor and services like Impact are involved with the family but we are still terrified that the people that decide won't see through him.
He has already threatened to exercise his PR once he has unsupervised access - this was said to the Social worker on the case.
He thinks he's clever.
There's a shit ton more but I've attempted to stick to what's relevant.

This is a great thread - thank you.

My question : I was awarded spousal maintenance but my xh varies the amount quite regularly.

So he will say that his company (national company) is struggling and he is only receiving 25% pay so can only pay me 25%, for example. After several months, it goes back to normal for a bit, until the next time.

This has happened 3-4 times in the past three years and makes it very hard to plan ahead or budget. I am always waiting for it to happen.

Child maintenance (three dc) is always paid in full and on time.

I have gone along with this, despite suspecting that it isn't true (based on his lavish lifestyle, continuing full time employment etc) because I can't prove that he's lying, don't want to spoil our amicable co-parenting arrangement or provoke him into paying even less.

Is there anything I can do? I have limited funds and also worry that taking legal action would make me look money-grabbing!

@My0My thanks - I have decided against trying to becoming a barrister because of the fees, but if anyone can tell me about the assessments etc to become a solicitor advocate/gaining rights of audience to higher courts I'd be interested to hear - I have just checked SRA about requirements but personal experience would be really interesting - also i would be really interested to know whether solicitor advocates are given the same credence as the barristers in the family courts - by judges, by clients and by barristers?!

However, I don't want to get in the way of people wanting advice about real life situations here, equally.

Thanks again.

@Saintherblain, butting in to ask if you've looked at the rules around transferring to the Bar as a qualified lawyer? As a solicitor without higher rights of audience my understanding is you would be exempt from most of the academic and vocational stages, you'd just have to do the Advocacy and Ethics elements of the Bar Transfer Test. Or you could do take your solicitor's HRA assessment instead, which exempts you entirely from having to do any bar vocational training. Either way, you'd need to apply to the Bar Standards Board as a qualified lawyer seeking to transfer, which costs somewhere in the region of £500 I think. Depending on your PQE and also how long you have been on career break, you might be excused some of the pupillage period as well.

Or, as you say, you could do your HRA training and assessment and then seek a new role as a solicitor in your preferred new practice area - you would probably need to accept a more junior position/salary than your "actual" PQE? but I know people who have successfully done that and re-established themselves in their new field. (You could evwn wait and hope your new firm pay for your HRA training but investing in some professional training yourself now might enhance your CV after a career break.) So practically speaking it all depends where and how you want to work - within a law firm or at the self-employed bar? - and also where you can find an opportunity to re-establish yourself.

Can you reach out to contacts of contacts or through professional networks to learn more (did friends of friends at your old firm or law school go into family law?), look for work shadowing opportunities, apply for mini pupillages, etc.

I can't speak to what the current courses and assessments are like as I got mine years and years ago under the old regs - my then firm was keen to have all its trainees and junior lawyers "tick the box", but I do v little advocacy in real life, by choice! My sense is that even solicitors who are keen and have aptitude just won't do as much advocacy within their day to day practice, because of the nature of work as a solicitor ie everything else we are doing! That might be unfair, though - plus I know nothing about family law!

saintherblain: I think many barristers do see themselves as a protected species. Family barristers are not the highest paid so don’t necessarily welcome solicitors doing their job but see it as preferable to litigants in person.

With regards to finding out about the job, many family chambers are doing webinars. You could presumably sign up for these. I know my DD did one for her Chambers.

My DD is a family barrister and there is exasperation at the length of time it takes to agree anything with litigants in person who, for very good reasons, don’t understand the requirements. Obviously working with a solicitor representing a client is better.

People think the Family Court is about opposing each other. It’s not. It’s about finding workable solutions and bringing clients round to being sensible! Judges get frustrated too. Mostly through having to explain everything and huge delays due to this.

Legal Aid work effectively means the barrister doesn’t get paid. Costs are usually higher than fees. Most family Chambers share the pain around the junior members if they take Legal Aid work. It’s seen as a social service but not one anyone relishes.

If anyone does become a family barrister in London then expect a full in career. Frequent travelling was the order of the day and courts seem open from 9 am. This could be in Southampton or Southend or Slough. Now it’s cases on the phone or in a video meeting. Both are not wholly satisfactory but DDs travel costs are now £0 so she’s better off! It’s not a career for the faint hearted or someone that wants spare time!

pineapples, I see what you mean and it's good the children have a nice standard of living as they should with a wealthy father.

I just put it that way because saying "should she have more"... it's child maintenance, and naturally it's down to the resident parent how she spends it.

I don't think a high-earning man wanting to control how the mother of his children heats her house or organizes her fridge comes across very well. At that sort of income and lifestyle level it's not as if he is suffering the loss of the few pounds she might be using differently to how he thinks he would if he had a houseful of teenagers full-time, you know?

I had FDA and FDR and was surprised by the "quality" of the judges. First was known to be extremely grumpy and this was said by both sides.He was just very unpleasant and it was well known. Second was newly appointed and inexperienced such that despite lots of prep work on both sides his directions were trotted out in 5 mins and boilerplate. He also left early so wasn't around to review agreement and he didn't inform the clerk!

Have you noticed that all judges are not equal and justice in court depends on the diligence or lack of diligence by a judge? How are judges monitored for performance, given appeals just add costs for the applicants. Do we need an Osfed for judges?

My ex then dragged us through child arrangements orders and I found the judge at the first hearing much more diligent. It didn't go further as following Cafcass report Ex's barrister advised him to drop his claims as he wouldn't be supported in court. Do you think in these cases applicants should have costs awarded, it cost me 10k to defend the case, it seems his solicitors encouraged him that he had a valid claim, so where is the sense check to ensure "ambulance chasing" solicitors are monitored?

Hello Paperlantern

Please tell me how on EARTH the IMMERMAN Law - ever saw the light of day ? Is there any plan to lose it??

I call it the Cheats Charter - license to lie and conceal and withhold?
AIBU??

Do you have any thoughts on the hideous process known as birth negligence proceedings? 6-15 years of torture for families and disabled children.

@SecondRow it is really helpful to see another pov, thank you. I appreciate it. It actually helps me help him and see it from someone else's perspective.
It is the spousal maintenance that his ex is seeking to increase, on the basis that she says she just doesn't have enough (she has more than £4.5k pcm after tax) and that she shouldn't have to work more than 15 hours per week, and he has more £ therefore he should share his increased salary. She's also seeking to extend the child element beyond the eldest child's tertiary education, so she is nearly 22, and the mum is seeking to continue receiving CM for her. He is finding it all so upsetting as he really feels he does so much for the children and has tried to keep it so amicable after she ended their marriage 5 years ago :(

Hi there my husband and i are divorcing. We have agreed child custody and just needs to signed by him and I. But the problem i have is there was some confusion between my solicitor and I and in the house side of things she put in a draft agreement that he has withdrawn from paying his half of the mortgage- to which he agreed straight away. I cannot afford the whole morggage every month. It is a joint mortgage nothing is signed. My husband has hopped and changed his mind through it all . Do i have to stick to this agreement even though its not right. My solicitor wrote to his saying he was to pay half. He refused. What can i do?

Wojld like to add nothing has been officalh signed just agreed between solicitors. Nothing has offically been drawn up

@clarice
I know all the people involved in this. I did both their first divorces.

Yes it's the cheat's charter. But the case of Hildebrand still exists.
It depends entirely on how you found the documents. If they are Hildebrand documents you can use them (that case applies if you came by them via legitimate means -. Eg if they were on a shared computer, in an unlocked filing cabinet etc). A client of mine found a piece of paper evidencing a Leichtenstein Trust in between the pages of a cookery book in December, after the proceedings had been going on for months. She only used that particular book at Christmas. This was pre-Imerman but even if it had come later we could still have used it under the principles of Hildebrand. Imerman applies only to documents/information which have come into your possession by illegitimate methods (hacking/theft).

Do you see many cases, now, where the woman is the higher earner but had, and still has, the vast majority of care giving responsibilities for the children. I see on MN some women getting, in my opinion, fleeced by their spouse, who has contributed very little and will go on to contribute very little. What are your thoughts on those cases?

Hi again, i dont know if this cheeky but I have a second question after some drama today. Ex has stated he doesn't give formula to 10 month old during his time, 10-5. As she doesnt have a bottle until after breakfast and around 10, she's missing two out of the three. I've approached this with ex and stated the issue but he has stone walled me and pretty much said im out to get him. I have all of this in writing and emails of me advising him numerous times of what she needs whilst with him but I wanted to ask if I would be seen as unreasonable for going back to half days until we can get to the final hearing. I reached out with a compromise regarding his access and his response was he wants to take it as far as possible for various silly reasons so I know the hearing is inevitable even though I would like to avoid it.

If you could reform an area of law (excluding improving access to legal aid), what would it be?

Hi, I have an 11 year old who hasn't seen her father in 6 years. He does not pay maintenance as claims he is self employed and therefore the CMA can not collect monies from him (apparently). He is £18K in arrears. My daughter would like to change her surname as she acts and and currently isnt allowed on overseas shoots as her fathers signature is required on the permission form (he's on the BC) She has twice missed out on overseas productions. So two things, can she legally change her name without his permission? And do we need his consent to travel? Thanks.

Ive been seperated since I left the marital home two and a half years ago. I'm about to start divorce procedings but im worried that my ex might want half of the money that I've saved since I left.
For info - they earn approximately half of my wages. And we sold the house and split it 50/50. No kids to worry about.

@Paperlantern123

In your house are the toilet seats left up or placed down after use? Thank you.