Marital rape?

[MandB23]

For a while I didn’t call it what it was, but deep down I know that my husband has raped/sexually assaulted me multiple times.
It started in about 2018 where he would start having sex with me in the night. He would do it after an argument. It was odd.
We would have a horrible argument, go to bed and then within an hour or so he would do it. I would generally just lie there and let it happen. I didn’t say no but usually I’m quite an active, enthusiastic participant and myself, I can’t imagine having sex with someone who is just lying there. He would then get off and just go to sleep.
After a few times, I had to speak to him to say - please can you not do that. I mentioned the word consent - as in, how can I consent if I’m asleep when it starts. He kicked off royally. I never used the word rape but he started with “how can I rape you when we’re married”. The minute he said that, I knew that I was wasting my time talking to him. But I made it clear that I don’t give consent, that I’ve become fearful of him in the night and I’m waking at every little movement and I have a feeling of dread. I wake up the next day feeling empty and numb and sad. And I wanted him to stop doing it.
I used to enjoy night time sex. But at that point we were in a bad place and I just felt taken advantage of.
Anyway, once I clearly communicated that I don’t consent to that and even if I’m not saying no - it’s because I freeze and go a bit numb when it happens. But it carried on. And then I knew it was rape. Because I had told him that I did not want that but I don’t have the confidence to say no at the time.
I got pregnant - from one of these times. Because we weren’t having any other kind of sex. the baby was still born. I had sepsis and was quite unwell. I thought he would have learnt from this but the day I got home (3 days post birth) he did it again. That’s the first time I stopped him and the last time he tried it. I was in shock - like how are you doing this now??? But I was sore and bleeding and just said “what are you doing?” The next day was a huge argument when I brought it up. Going mad again - saying “oh you’re calling me a rapist, (baby’s name) must have been a rape baby then” just horrible stuff. We were in the car and he kept driving erratically and he was just so so angry and horrible about it.
It hasn’t happened since. But I can’t get over it. I feel anger about it still. I want to talk to him about it - like ask why?? But I know I can’t talk about the subject. Just more and more I know that what he did was wrong and I’m not sure I can let it go.

I don’t know what I’m writing this for really. I’ve just got an overwhelming sense of dread for the day ahead when I’m thinking about this and how I have to pretend I’m fine.

Oh OP

One time my daughter was on his phone and she came over to me to show me a video of a blowjob. I screamed and grabbed the phone and said “what the fuck is that”. He got angry. He took the phone and said “oh I can’t even have a phone anymore.” He ended up punching walls in front of her and storming out.

This is all so very wrong and awful. Your dd has been exposed to porn and violence in her own home.

If you can't leave for yourself, you need to leave for her. While you stay, you're teaching her this is ho life should be and what she can expect in future relationships.

Please speak to Women's Aid and work out an exit plan. As is often said on here, if a cup of tea was 90% nice and 10% shit, you wouldn't keep drinking it, would you?

There is no 'good side'.

There is no chance of a 'nice life'. Not with him.

And he's doing it front of your children.

Please find the strength to get away.

I’ve never heard that. But it makes sense. I laughed a little - which is weird.

She was only about 4 at the time and I don’t think she had a clue what was going on. Don’t think she knew what a willy looked like or what it was. But it was an awful experience. I was in shock.
He said it’s not his fault because his friends had sent it on a WhatsApp group.
As though I’m not allowed to be angry about it.
It’s the reactions. But some of the time - I doubt whether I’ve caused it. It’s only very obvious situations like that where I can see through his behaviour.
We’re in our early 30’s and he liked to look at young girls. He stares some times. And some times they look to me to be about 17/18. And I feel so uncomfortable.
It’s only been a handful of times where it’s been staring at very young girls - but I don’t like it. And I’ll say something. And then he lies about it. And I get upset. But he spends the whole time telling me how awful I am to live with and he needs to stay at home and he has to have his head on the ground. He will then admit it when I’m still upset after a while. But I then feel like I’ve caused a fuss over nothing.
It’s just all a mess.
It’s not the life I want.

OP I don't usually comment on threads like this but my heart goes out to you. I wonder if you could do the Freedom Programme and get support via Women's Aid. My love the answer is not to find another man.... not right now anyway. Work on that stronger YOU first. You're important and you deserve better than this.

I'm so very sorry you are going through this. It happened to me many times and I'm telling you your husband knows it's rape and exactly what he is doing. My husband knew too and would say its not rape if you're married and it's his conjugal rights. I showed him on the Internet that he was wrong. I would end the marriage if I were you. Eventually I did myself.

OP my heart is in my mouth reading this. Think of your daughter growing up in her own home with this vile, broken thug of a man, but please, please think of yourself too.

My DDs father is a charming, friendly man who also tried repeatedly to have sex with me while I was asleep or if I'd had a drink and would never admit it was rape. He once had the gall to get angry with me in an argument because even drunk my body would fight him off, as if that offended him somehow! Vile man and you'd never know. However, I truly believe even he would draw the line at doing such a thing 3 days after a still born delivery. I'm so very sorry, but you also need to realise that this man is a real danger to you, to be able to do that. To turn it on you, to say those things about your lost child. He is a monster, and you need to safely get you and your daughter away from him.

I've been a lurker/reader on mumsnet for a long time but I have actually set up an account after reading your post to write to you.
I want to say I feel for you. This happened to me with my husband. It seemed like sex was used as a punishment, his way of feeling like he was in the right. I'd dread going to bed because that was all bed was about. A lot of the time I just put up with it, but when he would hurt me I used to say. After a while I would just go in the bathroom after & cry. Like you i would feel empty & sad and feel like it was my fault if I couldnt make a connection. I too used to enjoy the physical side of sex. Anyway after an awful 3 months of intense unwanted punishment sex I left & have now been away from him for 6 months.
I cannot tell you how amazing the relief & not having to fear my bed is. It was very hard to leave him for so many different reasons ; kids, family, where we live but the release, freedom & feeling like me for the 1st time in a long time is worth every bit of the hard stuff.

With you girl. You are worthy of so much more. Life is too short.
Sending you love. Xx

Oh my god, Op, you are so brave and strong. But you must escape from this dangerous man. I worry about your safety and your little girls'. Don't worry about money and things, just quietly plan your escape to freedom and recovery. That he raped you three days PP, after your terrible loss and illness is so so so shocking. Take care and well done for posting.

OP you poor thing.
You've been through so much already at his hands and I don't think you will really even grasp how much until you are free and start the healing process.

You deserve so much better.

This man is a huge risk to your daughter. He has a fucked up attitude to sex and uses it to control and intimidate.

If you can’t leave for you, please leave for her.

Come on OP, you are in your early thirties! You have most of your life still ahead of you and your daughter has more. Please don’t blight it with this abusive misogynistic wanker.

Please look after yourself OP, I've been in a similar situation when I was younger and trust me you'll be so much happier getting out of this. But it takes time, and we're all here for you.

You might want the 'nice bits' whatever they are, but you can't have your daughter growing up around him smashing things up, yelling etc.

What you want arguably shouldn't come into it- this isn't good for her and she's your responsibility. Even if you think she's not fully aware of the shouting, trashing things etc, that's a blessing that means you should leave now. Because she soon will be, in fact she probably is already.

And he's perverted about young women/girls- he could try it on with her when she's older or something. He's already proven by how he rapes you that he has no idea of what's ok and what's not ok when it comes to sex.

My uncle was like this. My aunt was too scared to leave until she caught him raping his 11 or 12 yo old oldest daughter (don't remember exactly how old she was). She (the daughter) is now in her fifties and still in therapy for what happened to her.

Seriously, what are you waiting for?

Oh honey you sound like a powerless prisoner of war! You can walk away from your angry,rapist husband! He's a fucking wanna-be pedophile pervert! Get out! You're way too young to resign yourself to this miserable life

Oh honey you sound like a powerless prisoner of war! You can walk away from your angry,rapist husband! He's a fucking wanna-be pedophile pervert! Get out! You're way too young to resign yourself to this miserable life

Sorry for double post

I know you’re all completely right. I know this.
But for me - it’s a small percentage of our time.
Well, it’s increasing.
But these incidents have happened over the past few years.
So in a few years - you have these few incidents.
But I know that his views about women are warped. For whatever reason. The worst bit is he doesn’t seem to see it.
Another thing is - he used to say that the night time sex - he was unaware of what was happening. Almost as if it was in his sleep.
Which I know is untrue. Because why would it just start and then stop. He hasn’t done it for at least 6 months now.
But I just can’t let it go.
Because his behaviour towards me still isn’t right. He shows me over and over again that he hasn’t learnt from any of it. He has no respect or empathy for anyone else.
I feel distant from him. I don’t really like him as a person anymore.
I still can’t get it out of my head that for my kids it would be better for us to be together.
And I can’t help but want that family unit.
The anger management thing - I don’t know exactly what he has asked for. I don’t know what he’s said. He has a phone appointment next week with someone but I’ve no idea what it’s for. I have seen a screenshot of a referral to a mental health online thing.

I am starting to think about ways I can support myself and what I need to do now to make my life easier if I was on my own.
But there is no way I could leave him right now.

I downloaded a PDF of the Bundy book and I took screenshots of the sections that applied to him. I make the mistake of seeing us as a team and that if I can show him the information and get through to him about how his actions have made me feel - that change might come.
But I know that’s not my job. He needs to be doing that stuff himself. And he isn’t there. He has no clue that he needs to learn or change anything.
The fact that he’s gone this far and done this much stuff without being concerned about his own behaviour - just makes me feel like shit tbh. Like is this okay?? It’s actually okay to him what he’s done and how he’s acted. And I’m not allowed to be struggling with it.

With the greatest of respects op, this man has raped you repeatedly. This is not something you are going to get over. Not ever.

You describe him as lacking 'empathy' and 'repsect'

If he had either of those qualities he would never have violated you in the first place.
He is not the man you thought he was. It is not your fault that as it turned out he is not the decent loving man you thought you had married.

How are you going to continue to sleep with him? Trust him? Continue a relationship? These are bigger questions.

Would your children want you to stay with a man that hurt you like this? Are they going to want to grow up in a home with tension and undercurrents?

It is up to you whether even after he has received help, and counselling and even if he does acknowledge what he has done wrong and apologises unreservedly for what he has done, is that enough? It is a going to be a very long journey for both of you to find peace with this, and a longer one still to feel love for the man.

You are young, you have many many more decades ahead of you. Only you can decide if you can get past this, if he is the kind of person you would like to share your life with indefinitely. Or you can start to retrain, and organise your finances. get your life in order and look to leave and start a new chapter that means you can sleep in peace, meet someone that respects and cares for you, and have a different kind of life far from this one.

It is domestic abuse, and your child is watching all of this day in and day out. You are harming your dd by staying. You are setting the gold standard of what she can expect from love and marriage.

In ten years time can you live with watching her suffer the same fate? Can you bear it?

If you can not leave for yourself then leave for her. She must be so frightened of him. I was desperate for my mother to leave my father, in the end I pleaded with her, she never did. I don't have happy memories at all, and he grew worse as the years passed.

How do you think he is going to cope with stroppy teenage dd? I would get out now whilst you still can.

Before my ex and I split, I used to think us not being together would be the absolute worst thing that could ever happen. I’d have to give up my nice house and car and that I’d never cope. Do you know what ?? When we split It was the best thing ever!! I absolutely coped and with bells on. I’m not saying it’s going to be easy but surely anything has got to be better than living the way you are now. Be brave.

You are living in fear of him having an episode every day, fear of his anger, fear of having an argument in case he rapes you again.
you are walking on egg shells.
When he comes home from work, does everyone's mood shift into "danger mode", do the DC behave differently when he is there?
It will damage your DC.
This is how it will be for the rest of your life.
I completely understand you when you say you can't leave,

But you can & you must.

Morning OP.

There's loads of good advice here.

Do not engage in any more discussions with him about rape, abuse, leaving him.

You are right, he's is wrong. But he will never, ever say "Hey Mand, you know how you said I'm a rapist and an abuser? Yeah, I've been thinking about it and you're spot on."

He can do the anger management course or whatever, but that does not oblige you to remain with him. Many many people do courses like that and just learn how to hide their actions better - the right sort of language to use to look like they've changed. Even if he does it genuinely and comes out a new man, you're not obliged to a) wait for that or b) be with him.

This man is your rapist. We recoil in horror when we hear of girls/women being forced to marry their rapist elsewhere in the world. You do not live there. You do not have to stay with this man.

are the idea that he's great 80% of the time, if I gave you a glass of water with 80% the purest water from the highest mountain and 20% water from the sewer, would you focus on that 80% pure mountain water and drink it? There are some things that goodness can't eradicate.

He is CHOOSING to not hurt you physically right now, but he's used it as a threat. And he has hurt you. Do not engage in any more discussion with him about it, start seriously and CAREFULLY planning your departure. Your kids would not grow up and say "I wish my mother stayed with my father, even though he raped her frequently and emotionally abused her even more frequently." They do not want this for you, or them.

This man is not on your team.

You've a thread of people here who most definitely are though.

Hi OP I've name changed just to reply to this. The reason I want to reply is because you have said you can't leave right now.
I was in a similar situation with my ex husband. I now believe he was a sex and porn addict. He would, and I'm sorry to be so crude, but he'd masturbate repeatedly during the day and pester me for sex every night. He didn't physically force me but when I refused he would stop speaking to me for 3 days, and for some reason I found that tension incredibly hard.

So I just let it happen, no interaction from me and it was clear I didn't want to. Part of the reason bro that the non stop daytime masturbation was leaving him "incapable " so it was just a long and revolting experience, every single night. He was happy and friendly despite knowing 100% I didn't want it.

The point I'm trying to get to is that I left, and I had been sure I couldn't because of the kids or for financial reasons, but the PP is right, this isn't ok and not an example of a relationship your daughter.
I wish I'd made a plan a sought help but even so , 12 years later I'm happy and have been for a long time. If I'd still been there, I would still need to eventually leave, these men don't change, but I'd have been a decade older. A decade less of the happy safe life I'm living.
Get some advice OP on the financial and practical side and make a plan, but be safe. Confide in someone in real life, and good luck, you have to do this xx

This is the thing.
My daughter idolises him. Favours him every time.
The other week when he left and was horrible to her - and that’s an objective thing. He was horrible. She was crying and for hours after asking after him.
I don’t know what the right thing to say is. And I just said to her that the way daddy behaves when he feels angry is not good and if he’s going to behave like that - then he can’t be in the house.
She doesn’t seem scared of him. Her behaviour has been bad through lockdown. It’s easing. But I see a lot of anger and she can only have learnt that from him. She isn’t a timid child, far from it. But she’s picking up on the anger and she’s handling her own feelings that way too.
And then when she displays that - he gets angry at her. He can’t seem to see that it’s our fault.
We currently just get by as a unit. I have my Nan living with us. I can’t work if I’m alone, we have twins and I wouldn’t afford childcare. It’s just impossible!!