Rise of the manchildren

[TirisfalPumpkin]

Aware I might be treading on shaky ground here, given that this is a parenting forum. I'm not out and out blaming parents for this phenomenon - I know 'his mother babied him' is the usual excuse, but I'm sure there's more to it than that. I'm trying to understand it better.

It seems a non-trivial % of millennial males are entitled, lazy man-children. I have personally married two of them. They have cost me dearly (both in the 'thousands of pounds' and 'I'm now cynical and don't trust anyone' way). I have read numerous threads here and found myself nodding along to a catalogue of infuriatingly familiar behaviour, so I don't think it's just me.

I mean by 'manchildren': men that are emotionally stunted, have underdeveloped morals and values, respond in childlike ways to adult issues (lie, sulk, whine) and are subconsciously seeking a partner they can put into a motherly role who will carry the mental load of the relationship and household. They often have hobbies that they prioritise over everything else in life. My friendship circles are kind of nerd-culture oriented and it seems to be especially bad here, but I think it is a wider societal phenomenon than just among gamers and geeks.

I am wondering whether there has been some change in the way boys are raised, that makes them more like this - or are girls brought up not to be difficult and therefore challenge it less? Why do their actual parents seem to enable and encourage them when they behave badly towards their spouse? Is society in general becoming more sexist and placing fewer demands on boys and young men? Are there just as many 'womanchildren' out there? My perception is it's largely a male phenomenon but I can think of a couple of counterexamples.

Rants about awful manchild behaviour welcomed too.

Regardless of who is doing it the manchild and I would add the lesser seen womanchild to that seem to have been raised to think that everything is someone else’s responsibility. They do fun stuff, or stuff they choose to do, or stuff they get lauded and praised for. Not stuff that needs doing because it just does and comes with no praise, exposure or strictly personal benefit.

madcat

You can see why they are single
I think I must have hit the jackpot.

All my life I've longed to be a lesbian, I know so many gorgeous wonderful lesbians out there but don't fancy any of them. The men in my life have been useless shits.

I dont think it's about being amanchild. It's what patriarchy is. Before, they didn't have to put up a fight. Nowadays they have too. Not many women want to stay at home and attend to their every need plus bring up children. Society is the problem.

I’m raising boys and they are primary aged and they have to do housework. In fact, I think I need to make them do more. One example, they have to clear up their dinner plates and load the dishwasher. Mine are the odd ones out. None of their friends are doing that. In fact I’ve got friends with older boys...14,15 and they do nothing, not even tidy their room. They do not contribute to the house in any way at all. They take. It creates laziness and expectation and entitlement.

A lot have grown up without a strong father

Woman fought so hard for equality however that equates in the main to- full time job, dealing with the home, children and everything else and the man reminding you that they earn more so dont need to do much....

Woman have lost there way and dont understand equality- its not about working and contributing financially it is your OH doing there bit too in terms of parenting and the home etc. I feel for SAHM as they were protected previously when the man went to work, she stayed at home and looked after the kids. Now if he buggers off he pushes for 50/50 , she gets no maintenance, might get something from a house sale but fundamentally is left in the shit.

Not talking about individual cases as shit happens in life that you have to deal with, but boys generally need a strong father as well as a good mother. With a strong father he's a lot more likely to become a man quicker and grow up to be productive.

It can work the same with girls. Daddy issues can be a real thing.

I think the Millenials as a generation are the first to really the first to really deal en masse with the breakdown of the family unit in childhood. Peter Pan syndrome is one of the results.

My 22 year old was in a house share from just before he was 18, and not a student one, he was working and drove and had a car etc . I’m very glad he did it this way and has actually gone to a great uni combined with a really good part time job aged 22. Those few years with a non student life taught him about launderettes, meal shopping, budgeting (ish) and having to be in at work for 9 whether you’ve been out on the lash or not. To me he is fun and kind but compared to many of his mates feels really mature- in many ways

I told a work colleague I wasnt his mum yesterday. We both got promoted at the same time. We should in theory be equal at work but he looks to me to sort anything that goes wrong/ isnt working. He will get on with one thing whilst I'm always juggling several. Lots and lots of colleagues do as well. I can only assume its because I'm female so they assume I'm better at managing everything?its a Male dominated industry but I am definitely responsible for a lot more than my male colleagues. Not because of bullying or anything like that I think they just dont have the same life experience and are used to doing less because less is expected of them.

"Daddy issues" as you so dismissively put it normally mean abuse,neglect,trauma ,abandonment.

I wonder how you'd define a "strong" father.

I think women expect men to change and they don’t and men don’t expect women to change and they do.

Just in response to the other single mums on here, we absolutely do not have to do everything. I do about a third of the housework. Never ever do I pick my 2 dc's dirty plates off the table or clothes off the floor, tidy their rooms or make their breakfast. They do it. They've learned I won't do it by me not doing it. Yes there is a little more mess than I'd ideally like but I refuse to spend my time cleaning up after others and I repeatedly tell them that. I have one of each and they're both under 10.

What counts as a strong family unit??

@Aerial2020

What counts as a strong family unit??

Two good parents actively involved in the child's life.

"Daddy Issues" are caused by men, but they're the ones who make fun of women for having those issues. Plenty of men also have daddy issues combined with having issues with their mothers yet they're not made fun of for it. "Strong father" usually means emotionally distant and physically abusive which was the norm for years. Mothers are blamed for everything even though it's socially acceptable for men to walk away from their kids without so much as a backwards glance.

I would rather be brought up by a single mother than a two parent family where my mother is clearly unhappy/being abused either physically or financially. Men don't want to change (NAMALT all you want) and women should just leave them to it so they can be on their own.

I think it stems from the phenomenon over recent years where children are protected from feeling basic emotions and learning to manage and deal with them at an early age. By this I mean the " everyone's a winner" philosophy, making sure they're never upset, making everything revolve around the child. Ensuring everything is exciting and engaging.
Because of this a generation has been created that are devoid of the adult emotional process.
As part of the overbearing parenting children have not learned basic household skills, cooking meals, cleaning, laundry etc.
It's frightening what will become of their offspring and to think they will be keeping me in my old are is frankly frightening.

Ah shit my DS is going to be a manchild if he ever gets in a relationship I just know it. But in my defense as a parent he is HF autistic and suffers anxiety so I have always wanted to do anything I can to make his life easier as he stresses and gets anxious about everything and dare I say it it makes my life easier with working and 2 other kids.
I make his meals wash for him and basically sort out everything in his life.
The only thing he does is make his breakfast and his bed and put his clothes in the wash and he expects the world in return.
Its not too late I can start now I dont reckon he will be mature enough for a relationship till maybe late twenties. Its going to be a hard slog though.

Fascinating thread. Yes would agree but the immaturity does apply to both sexes.

Best advice for young women is have your own financial independence and look out for you! Lots of manchildren are looking to be cared for.

It is interesting how men seemed to have changed. Once they were serious people with proper clothes and skills. Often these days the signs of a man child are a) playing computer games b) any kind of sci fi t shirt c) claiming not to know how to cook.

I have 2 step ds age 32 and 30, and my ds age 26.

None of them are ANYTHING like you have described. They are all polite, caring, respectful and hardworking. They all cook and clean and don’t give it a second thought. None of them moan or whinge, or mess women about.

I think you need to look at the men you are attracting rather than blaming them all.

And 2 of them are full in gamers.

To be honest, I'm surprised no-one mentions the pop culture these young people grow up with.

I mean, it's all well and good to lecture people about the patricahy, etc but it kind of gets lost when you're constantly listening to rappers boasting about how the treat woman as disposable goods and female singer likewise crooning about how they love bad boys, etc.

Off the top of my head, take Aitch who's one of apparently one of the most celebrated British rappers of the moment. He was nominated for Brits. Regularly playlisted on Radio 1. Reached number 3 with "Taste" which also happens to feature this "interesting" lyric:

"Ay, Gucci buckle with a snake on it
These Amiri denims, bitch, put your face on it
I'm tryna fuck, why this bitch tryna talk to me?"

You get female Radio 1 DJs who (rightly) support pro-feminist messages then interview this guy and laud him. Plenty of female teenagers who stream his records and dance to them. Now, I'm not saying he should be censored however can people not see how this leads to massive mixed messages for young, impressionable men? How this, in turn, might lead them to not then take feminist messages seriously?

And he's only one of many, many examples I could cite. The whole pop industry is largely full of mysoginistic lyrics and behaviour. They're practically encouraged.

What's a young man to aspire to? He hears these songs getting to to the top of the charts. So, of course, he's going to think "okay, that's the kind of guy women want, even if they don't admit it".

I don't agree. It, frankly, hugely frustrates me. But it is what it is.

Maybe. Isn’t a young man fairly dim if he draws his inspiration from a rapper? In other words it may not make any different.

Young men mostly look to their fathers. They do need role models and an overly enabling mother isn’t good either, but men need good fathers. A duff man who hasn’t reached maturity has missed out on a responsible father figure.

@TossaCointoYerWitcher I'm surprised feminists don't speak out more against rap. It has the same malign influence on our youth as hardcore pornograpghy, yet its indulged because people fear being labelled racist.

@tootiredtospeak

Ah shit my DS is going to be a manchild if he ever gets in a relationship I just know it. But in my defense as a parent he is HF autistic and suffers anxiety so I have always wanted to do anything I can to make his life easier as he stresses and gets anxious about everything and dare I say it it makes my life easier with working and 2 other kids. I make his meals wash for him and basically sort out everything in his life. The only thing he does is make his breakfast and his bed and put his clothes in the wash and he expects the world in return. Its not too late I can start now I dont reckon he will be mature enough for a relationship till maybe late twenties. Its going to be a hard slog though.

STOP doing this for him. My son is still fairly young (tween) and has HFA and I realise it's very hard but mollycoddling them is NOT doing them any favours even though I understand how difficult on you. My son is sadly inherently selfish and demanding and tbh, barring a miracle he's not going to make good relationship material due to this. I'm hoping for his living independently without the place becoming so bad he gets kicked out rather than a bloody relationship. It's not popular here, but my son takes an anti-depressant for anxiety and he's actually much improved on it. If he has so much anxiety he might be better off trying an anti-anxiety drug.

@LexMitior If you're a young, hormonal teenage guy who's incredibly insecure around women you're going to draw from the culture around you for advice and inspiration. Also from the guys who a) appear to know what they're doing and b) are getting a lot of attention fro. said women. And if those guys - who currently happen to be rappers - are treating women as disposable goods that's the lesson you're going to take away. The fact they're a rapper is beside the point.