He needs to “win”. Is this gaslighting or just being a d*ck?

[Melandri]

Has anyone dealt with a really argumentative partner who doesn’t see themselves that way?

My partner picks at anything until he finds a disagreement or a reason to fall out.

Recently he told me he doesn’t like the way I need to go for a walk when I’m frustrated or upset, especially if it’s fairly late, and would I mind not doing it because he worries.

I said fair enough but I do like a bit of space to clear my head but I won’t go out at night if he’ll worry (it doesn’t happen often btw, maybe twice in the last few months.)

I thought that was the end of the conversation but no.

He then said “if you did still want to go for a walk, would you tell me?” To which I replied “of course, I’m always honest with you and there’d be no reason not to tell you”

He then said:
“Are you calling me a bullshitter?”

I was so surprised at the direction that this took but said “no, of course not”.

He’s now saying that because I said I’m honest, I’ve indirectly said that he’s not.
It’s been over 24 hours now and he’s still really worked up over it even though I’ve told him I dong feel that way and don’t think that and definitely didn’t imply it or didn’t mean to.

Anyway, after lots of shouting and arguing from him, and me staying calm and telling him that I don’t think he’s a bullshitter he’s summed it up saying that the issue is that I don’t understand.

I said “I do” and he replied saying “no you don’t”.

I’ve asked him what I can do to help us move on and he said his lost where he is with everything but he won’t back down because that will mean I’ve won. I don’t see it as winning or losing I just think there’s been a bit of confusion and rather than letting it go he’s clinging to it.

I don’t know why he’s like this. Can anyone help?

[Note from MNHQ - 22/11/2020: please note there is a recent update from the OP].

Huge red flag, leave him, definitely don't move in, it will get worse.

Don't tell you're going for your stuff. He may 'accidentally' trash it. Tell him you'll be over tomorrow evening to talk. But go in the morning obvs.

If she waits a couple more days he will cotton on and she wont get her stuff back. It's do or die.

As long as he is defo out she will be fine. I doubt he will accuse her of trashing the place,even if he did he would have no proof. But he might accuse her of not leaving his key (hense I say take a picture of it on his kitchen table or something).

His agenda will just to be to get her back, for a while.

Good luck tomorrow! I hope he is out when you get there.

I can't be told I shout at you along with a load of other negative things, you are near enough describing a monster

That last message is really quite manipulative. He wants you to agree that the shouting wasn't really shouting, and the negative things you've described about him in the past weren't really negative things.

If you agreed to that, you'd be setting yourself up for a relationship where he could shout and be horrid, and you'd have to accept it because 'he's not a monster'.

That last message doesn’t acknowledge any wrong-doing, and is about him coming out if it smelling of roses.

Wishing you all the best for the future. Theses bound to be some tough days ahead - grieving the relationship etc, but stay strong.

Double check that he hasn't left anything at yours, if so make sure you take it with you and drop it off when you collect your belongings.

This sounds exactly like my partner it’s very difficult to live with, mine didn’t show true form until we’d moved in and had children though. Always causing arguments then somehow it’s my fault, he can shout at me but I can’t shout back things like that. Basically if I do something wrong in his eyes it’s normally not by anyone else’s standard he can stand and shout and speak to me like shit and I need to sit in silence and let him speak, then also let him sulk for a week. Then if he does wrong I can’t say anything it all has to be swept under the carpet and forgotten by the next day.
I find giving the dick head gesture and a flick of the vs while he leaves the room a brill release!

Well done OP! I've been there too and it's awful. Blocking him is great, but if he shows up or catches you elsewhere Go Cold. Give him no emotional response.

I discovered that my ex didn't care what emotion he got out of me as long as he got one (form of control), whether it was sadness, anger or bewilderment. Once I just started responding to his comments with hmm and nothing else, he had no where to go with his outbursts.

Example: Last conversation on the phone (after we had broken up) he called to say how much he missed me, then when I didn't cave, he moved on to shitting on me and telling me that I messed up the relationship when he still didn't get an emotional response he started screaming at me that I was a bitch and no one else would ever want me. After he screamed himself out. I said very calmly with no trace of emotion 'Is that all? Ok bye'. He never called again. Wish I'd done it before he broke into my house[anger]

Good luck and take care of yourself (another one saying take a friend please)

Total narcissist. Honestly it’s scary. I spent 7 years in this quagmire. In the end he was arrested for assault.
I’m still not really free, because I even forgave that.
If I had have had that message I would be straight back. Even now I would struggle not to be.
And that’s the point, you end up in so deep you cannot see a way out. You’re trauma bonded and they could do what ever they want and you would forgive them.

Everyone here can see it. And I’m so glad you can too. But make sure you refer back to this thread. Because it’ll take a lot to leave this person.

I can't be told I shout at you along with a load of other negative things, you are near enough describing a monster. Also I can't be having it on my conscience that you are crying and generally being in a poor state because of myself This is really odd language, incorrect in parts, I am guessing that English isn't his first language? Or does he try to sound poetic? The first one you posted was very unusual wording too, so circular. And long, for a man. You poor thing, your plan sounds good, try to take someone with you.

@Flyingagainstreason totally agree I was stuck for 7 years and have been free for nearly 2 years, but the damage is still with me. I’m getting there though, it’s helped that he moved on with someone else very quickly and now he’s moved to live with her I don’t have to worry if I will see him out and about.
It’s hard and I wish I had listened to my instincts sooner but he never gave me space to process what I was thinking.
You can do this x

He will soon enough say that :
You've obvously made up your mind (as if you just woke up one beautiful day in a perfect relationship and decided to blow it up. As if. )
That it was beautiful to know you and you had some amazing times. Good bye. (to make you feel guilty and pang for the better times)

Basically all sorts of manipulation to shift the blame.
One thing he will never do is outright ask you to come back, promise to work on himself, show he is finding it difficult - narcissistic traits won't allow that.
Forget and move on will be your only way back.

Stay strong, he doesn't deserve you.

Actually as a hoovering technique narcissists are quite capable of promising to work on themselves ect. Many of them say no to therapy for years, only to promise to go - after you have left them "if you will give us another chance" blah blah.

It isnt usually the first go-to as yes, narcissists don't like to admit any wrong doing. But the fact that they say any old shite to manipulate you can leas to promises to change as a hoovering tactic.

Tbf, this one doesnt sound like he will take that route though.

(Of course they never actually believe they are in the wrong. Or intend to change).

Definitely go with someone tomorrow morning. Don't go alone.

Good luck op, glad he has shown you who he is at least.
Shouting that he's not shouting is literally what my 5- year-old does, btw...

He has narcissistic personality disorder, I'm sure of it.

Just remember that he did not love you because he is not capable of it. You served his needs, you were his narcissistic 'supply'. He will want you back to continue serving his needs, though he will already be looking for a new server/supplier but not before he has messed with your head some more because he will need to keep you as an option.

Classic NPD. Just like my ex. Who also btw never took no for an answer when he wanted something including sex.

Controlling and childish. Red flag spotted... don’t ignore it!!

Melandri I’ve just read your update from 18:29. He sounds dangerous. Change your locks just in case. You have swerved a total nutjob.

I also got the promises to change and get counselling when we had split up already, but he wouldn't do it when I begged him for years when we were together. But this quickly became 'all my behaviour is your fault and you are the one who has to change'. Yeah right, because the abusive arsehole is always right and blameless and somehow the victim?

OP, you are so so lucky to know what he is like now. I wish I'd realised before having DC and wasting most of my life on someone just like your DP.

A total head fxxk.
Well done for spotting it and saving yourself so much drama.

In and out tomorrow, with someone to support you.

Don't hesitate to call 101 if you feel he is threatening you.

He's a freak.

This person 100% has a personality disorder - Borderline (EUPD now is called) or narcissistic (either malignant or covert)

we do not know enough to make a diagnosis but the emotionally unstable, gaslighting non-rational behaviour speaks to some form of personality disorder. You must escape now & block for your mental wellbeing.

Once you’ve been exposed to people with personality disorders they become easy to spot when people explain their situations & provide text evidence, which you have! I could tell he was mentally not right based on your first post alone - because you wrote it articulately & still it confused me & couldn’t understand what his problem was. Because he is the problem !

I want to say you mentioned on Page 2 being scared to be 32 & alone forever (paraphrasing). Yet you are the type who wants to walk away in a tense situation. Imagine having actually moved in with him, or been married, have a kid or two & then imagine how awfully trapped you would feel. I am 38 & been through some good & bad relationships & being SINGLE in your cute, peaceful little flat in a dodgy area is a million times better than being stuck with someone who has a personality disorder / abusive in a nice house on the best block in town.

You are not losing anything great & the fact he seemed so picture perfect at the start only speaks MORE to a personality disorder & how fake they are. Am certain he would not have pulled this shit with you in the first week, they seem to know when they’ve won your affections & made you believe they are the one you’ve been waiting for. They always do! It is part of the act & vital to the cycle of abuse that you truly believe in the person they were pretending to be!

The hoovering or apology/makeup phase of the cycle is when they will promise change & you will see glimpses of the fake person you started to date, to give you hope & encouragement that they are capable of change.

The sad thing is they know exactly how to put on that personality, like a suit or lizard skin. So they know exactly how they should behave towards others but they don’t.

They must protect their narratives or their whole perception of identity crumbles & their ego cannot handle this. If he is really trying to win you back he will likely alternate between

1. having had a lightening bolt & all these sudden insights into his personality deficiences -

2. threats of self harm or destruction of property

If you don’t really need to get your stuff then let it go BUT after being screwed over there is something to be said for the personal satisfaction of surprising them with an empty(er) house & not even a “dear john” note. Then when you drive away with your mate altrnating betweeen laughing and crying from the Adrenalin, be sure to put on some old Destiny’s Child classics or whatever female empowerment themed music you prefer !

2020 has been a write off for basically everyone worldwide, so don’t worry about the loss of this loser. We are all starting with a clean slate ahead of 2021

Actually being single is also better than being in a mediocre relationship too. Or settling. Don’t do that! Which you would be staying with him.

It’s funny they push their narrative that you still “don’t understand” - no mate, I just DISAGREE with you!

Also what if you had said “no” to his request not to go for a walk? As someone else mentioned above, listen to the Amber Heard Johnny Depp tapes (Live Abuse Free channel on YouTube- she is English lady & gives a great breakdown of if) and how Amber twists Depp’s need to escape for a breather during arguments & her insistence he not be allowed to walk away during a fight.

Being able to walk away to gather your thoughts to have a calmer chat later is a sign of mature personality & an abuse will characterise it as you unfairly storming off, shutting them out and also to feign concern of safety, as is the case here.

It makes my skin crawl someone being made to promise not to to remove themselves from a volatile, distressing argument from someone who is behaving irrationally. They don’t care one jot about your safety, that want you to stay there & be bamboozled by them till you’re so confused you don’t know what the fight was event about anymore, you will do or say anything for it to be over & your head feels like fairy floss or a foggy cloud. When you’re in this state you will submit to them & they will “win”. They know full well you have less chance of winning if you don’t have time & space to gather your thoughts & clear your mind. You removing yourself from the situation destabilises them as you are essentially taking control of the situation to get what you need. That’s not allowed don’t you know!

He's awful . That last message is chilling. What a head fuck. BUT you are doing so well not to listen to this shit. You don't owe him anything. You can walk away. I like your plan, but please be careful.