He needs to “win”. Is this gaslighting or just being a d*ck?

[Melandri]

Has anyone dealt with a really argumentative partner who doesn’t see themselves that way?

My partner picks at anything until he finds a disagreement or a reason to fall out.

Recently he told me he doesn’t like the way I need to go for a walk when I’m frustrated or upset, especially if it’s fairly late, and would I mind not doing it because he worries.

I said fair enough but I do like a bit of space to clear my head but I won’t go out at night if he’ll worry (it doesn’t happen often btw, maybe twice in the last few months.)

I thought that was the end of the conversation but no.

He then said “if you did still want to go for a walk, would you tell me?” To which I replied “of course, I’m always honest with you and there’d be no reason not to tell you”

He then said:
“Are you calling me a bullshitter?”

I was so surprised at the direction that this took but said “no, of course not”.

He’s now saying that because I said I’m honest, I’ve indirectly said that he’s not.
It’s been over 24 hours now and he’s still really worked up over it even though I’ve told him I dong feel that way and don’t think that and definitely didn’t imply it or didn’t mean to.

Anyway, after lots of shouting and arguing from him, and me staying calm and telling him that I don’t think he’s a bullshitter he’s summed it up saying that the issue is that I don’t understand.

I said “I do” and he replied saying “no you don’t”.

I’ve asked him what I can do to help us move on and he said his lost where he is with everything but he won’t back down because that will mean I’ve won. I don’t see it as winning or losing I just think there’s been a bit of confusion and rather than letting it go he’s clinging to it.

I don’t know why he’s like this. Can anyone help?

[Note from MNHQ - 22/11/2020: please note there is a recent update from the OP].

Yup!!!

You were supposed to be crushed by him dumping you and ring back desperately pleading. He was all set to thoroughly enjoy ignoring all your hysterical calls and texts.

Oops.

Everything that he will do will 100% be predicted on here.

:)

What is at his house that you really need?

He sounds so deranged that unless it's your passport, I'd just leave it. Unless you know for a fact he'll be out.

Luckily, he's ended it! so you don't owe him anything! You wouldn't anyway, but you know what I mean. Stay strong.

I walked away from my abusive arsehole with a rucksack. He didn't really leave me much choice mind you. But possessions aren't worth a huge row, getting sucked back in, him threatening you. Pretending to be out but actually being in. Etc..

Ha, you were supposed to be on the phone to HIM begging him to think again by now! You're doing well. Ignore calls and messages. Think about what you need of your stuff. Could you take more than one friend or a particularly intimidating one?

@Bunnymumy that is such an astute observation. Who wants their partner to be permanently stifled and discombobulated?!

Ok I’ve read the message - figured why not send it over to you lovely ladies so grab a cuppa and let me know what you think.
I’m standing firm but I must admit I wasn’t expecting this...

I'm sorry its ended up like this, I can't be told I shout at you along with a load of other negative things, you are near enough describing a monster. Also I can't be having it on my conscience that you are crying and generally being in a poor state because of myself, I'm sat here in disbelief at the position we are in now, I haven't a clue why we've gone from such a high to complete failure, I hope that we haven't fallen out entirely, it would be a shame if we have Xx

I haven’t replied - I don’t know what to say.
Is this hoovering?

Good luck 💗

Block

More mindfuckery. Gets you in a state and then pretends to try to rescue you from said state (Which of course he wants you to think is entirely of your own making).

A lot of people get caught in this cycle of abuse whereby their abuser breaks them down mentally and then suddenly acts as if they are the white knight coming in to rescue them. It's all to get you thinking you are the one with the problem and that you NEED them.

He was the one who upset you and created all the drama in the first place! Deliberately.

Step back from the phone if pos. Maybe dobt read anything else he sends. You could block. But maybe grab your stuff while he is out first (if he is defo gonna be out). Block asap tho.

Notice how it's all "he is this, he is that?"

The whole message is about how he feels!

He's confused why you haven't been begging him back. He's dialled down the hysteria - for now.

Hmm. From www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/captivating-crimes/202003/hoovering-and-the-narcissistic-victim

"During the process, the narcissist abuser may employ virtually any means necessary to obtain their desired result: the return of the victim to the abusive relationship. These ploys can include attempting to put the victim on a guilt-trip, generating false promises of changed behavior, false promises of too-good-to-be-true gifts, begging, screaming at the victim, use of relationship shame, making threats, insincerely accepting blame for the failure of the relationship, or even using others (flying monkeys) to help persuade the victim to return to the relationship."

I've put the two tactics I think he's using there in bold.

But he does like to mess with words, doesn't he? So little meaning in his sentences, such ambiguity. All the better to have you think he means the nicest interpretation, whilst giving him the get-out-of-jail-free-card of claiming you misunderstood, he meant a completely different interpretation. Look at "I can't be told" - the nice interpretation is that he's horrified at what he's been told, horrified that he's come across as a monster. But It also means, he won't be told, he rejects your description of him. Clever. And chilling.

But then that text he sent was the same. Word salad, you could pick any meaning from it, depending on what you wanted to take from it. And by keeping you off-balance, he's manipulating what you will want to take from it.

I would block him completely. he's a nasty little bastard who is trying to fuck you over. Fetch your stuff if you can be sure he won't be there, by all means - but I'd be inclined to discard it and buy new stuff rather than run the risk of being entangled by his games.

'Poor state' BLOCK if you have alot of mutual friends he is absolutely going to paint you as mentally unwell, poor state is a weird way of wording.

Don't respond and take a friend with you to get your things.

I take it you know he will be at work tomorrow and SURE he will not be not in? Do you have a key to his?

If so, dont tell him you are collecting your things.

And when you leave his, leave his key and take a pic of it where it is and send that to him along with the break up text. Because you dont want him to be able to give it 'I want my key back so meet me' ect once you are gone (He will try anything he can to get you to meet in person to further screw with your head). Also wise not to take anything you bought jointly or that he may argue is his.

OP if your stuff is replaceable - please replace it. Block him and don't look back. @WhereYouLeftIt has a great breakdown of what he's doing in his latest message, don't be drawn back in.

Is this hoovering?

IDK if it would be called hoovering (yet) but it is manipulation in order to try and get you to stay in touch with him so he can then try further stuff, probably fairly soon- saying you are the love of his life and just being your friend isn't enough, saying he can't live without you, whatever.

He will keep trying tactic after tactic after tactic to keep you involved. Everything he does and says will be manipulative.

Just don't reply.

If there is stuff you feel you must fetch then bring a friend.

Then block on everything ASAP.

These are the only actions you need to take.

I agree with pp, if you have mutual friends he will probably tell them you have issues. Or use them in some other way.

Also, don't agree to stay friends. This man isnt your friend, he is out to hurt you.

"*because of ME" would be my reply because I fucking hate people misusing "myself". It's all still headfuckery - you are in this position because of his irrational nonsense about you saying something you didn't say. I think he's trying to get an apology from you and he also wants to continue to make you feel like you're mad because you've cottoned on to his shit behaviour ("I don't shout" - while shouting; "I don't understand what's happened" - after gaslighting you for days). He doesn't want to be the villain. He wants you to be the crazy woman (you'll be the "psycho ex!" for sure) because that way everything is always your fault.

Melanie tonia Evan's on youtube does a good video on 9 hoovering techniques. I think she misses out how they will use other ppl as flying monkeys though. But Google about and you'll get the picture.

But hopefully once you get your stuff you can just block him and he'll sod off (chance would be a fine thing).

I second other posters.

Unless your life depends on what's at his place, leave whatever of your belongings are there.

If it's deadly expensive or personal documents or stuff you need for work, then collect them, but DON'T GO ALONE.

Bring someone with you, preferably bigger than him.

Thrn block him on any and all social media and delete his details.

Thanks everyone, my plan is:

• Let him think I’m going over there when he’s finished work to get my stuff (I was supposed to be seeing him tomorrow evening anyway)
• Actually go over in the morning when he’s out, I’ve got a key and can let myself in. I’ll take someone with me if I can.
• Post the key back through the door in an envelope so he can’t say anyone saw it on the mat and hooked it out through the letter box
• block him on everything once that’s done.

If I block him now I worry that he’d know something is really wrong and drive over here.

He’s so unhinged and @WhereYouLeftIt you’ve made a really interesting point about how he phrases things. It really is so twisted.

As for the things I left, most of it I’m not bothered about but we had a little cocktail party and I’d taken over my vintage champagne saucers that my mum gave me (he only has water glasses) and a few other bits that are just very sentimental. One box though and I’ll be out of there.

I wish I could send you all huge hugs for how helpful you’re being. I wouldn’t have been able to navigate this alone so thank you from the bottom of my heart for supporting me

He is taking control of the narrative atm. Hoovering to follow.

And the narrative is, you accused him of some terrible things, and he hasca standard and will not accept your poor behavior. He is disappointed in you

But he also talks about the high, and how sad it's come to this, like he has no part in that!!

At this point he is just taking control of the narrative.

This is so far from your truth that it could be a "drama bait" (another term to google)
But resist the temptation to go back and set the record straight. You cant. He will cling to his ever changing goal posts and distort the meaning of your words. He will CORRECT you in fact. When you say what you meant he will correct you andctell you what you actually meant and argue with that. You can never get through. You can never make this person accept blame.

It is sad really. They are capable of being normal until they become intimate and then the intimacy turns negative because they hate themself.

Fingers crossed you can get in and out in a flash with no drama and him being none the wiser.

Even just let him think you are going over tomorrow night to talk, not for your stuff. That way he won't think to hide it or anything.

Good luck tomorrow, hope it goes off without a hitch. You are doing the right thing, being entangled with someone like this is truly torture. In a years time you wouldn't recognise yourself.

Do not got without someone, do not post it past him to accuse you of stealing something of his or trashing his house.

Even if you have to wait a couple more days.

Great plan OP.

Definitely have someone else there. Get them to take a photo of exactly what you take.

Placate yes - tell him you'll talk tomorrow and you're tired and upset.