Anyone else parent with someone with no empathy? How do you cope?

[notaprettygirl]

My children's father has almost no empathy to an extraordinary degree. He also has a strong belief he is always right. He is unable to understand other people's thoughts, feelings or behaviour. He doesn't hold other people in mind, at all. Not even his own children. This has all sorts of implications. He won't, for example, keep our youngest safe from cars as he just forgets he is meant to, and gets distracted by his own thoughts, leaving the youngest to wander into the road. As he is always right, he never learns from these times as he will never admit to making a mistake. He will actively deny demonstrable and provable reality to insist he is right. He appears to genuinely believe his blatant lies.

He is unable to read his children's emotions properly. So if one of our children has become emotionally overwhelmed, often by something his dad has done, their Dad will not calm his own emotions to deal with the child, but instead becomes emotionally overwhelmed by the child's anger or upset, and kicks off himself, making the child utterly distraught. Or if our toddler is upset, and he goes to comfort him and the toddler says, 'I want Mummy', he will respond by becoming angry and shouting ' Fuck this shit, what's wrong with me? Why don't you want me?' and storming out of the room, slamming the door. This is because he can only understand his own emotions.
He wants the emotional reward from his child being comforted by him and he cannot cope with rejection. He can't see the hurt child, he can only see his self and his own feelings.

Since having children I can really see that his behaviour is like that of a toddler - poor emotional regulation due to not being able to empathise with others.
I have asked him to go to GP for an assessment and see if there is any treatment- I have read about specific treatments for people who sound like him. I don't know if he will. And even if he does, he is completely unable to accept he has a problem.

I know people will helpfully ask why I had children with this man. Of course I regret it and is causes me deep pain that this seriously dysfunctional man is their Father. I didn't realise how bad he was till we had children. We had our own separate lives and got on well and there just weren't many things to bring us into conflict.
When things are calm and well he is fine, he is loving and affectionate (or appears that way, I realise now that these feelings are not real selfless love but him enjoying the feeling of being in love). But having children has caused stress he can't cope with and a need for attunement and othering someone else that he just can't do.

I don't know how to handle this anymore.

I think he sounds very much like he could be on the autism spectrum. Lack of empathy is part of the diagnostic criteria

I know this is a derailment but ideas like this are a misconception and damaging for people on the spectrum. This statement is absolutely not true and an overly simplistic view of what empathy is. For most people with autism there may be difficulties with demonstrative empathy, (knowing what to do when another is distressed or sad) and maybe even with cognitive empathy (putting yourself in another's shoes in order to understand their distress), but lacking in emotional empathy (feeling sad that another is sad or distressed) is not part of the diagnostic criteria. Many on the spectrum have more emotional empathy than NT's and care very much when their loved ones are hurting.

OP's husband doesn't have any empathy at all, zilch. If we are going to be dealing out armchair diagnoses the psychopathy is much more apt in this case. However, looking for explanations as to why this man is the way he is is bedside the point. The man is abusive and the DC need protecting from him.

My father is like this and he has ASD

My father is like this and he has ASD

Your father is an abusive man who also has ASD.

Utterly incapable of acting like a parent with the kids when they act like normal kids e.g. express an opinion. Cannot deal with any kind of rejection of him or the younger ones wanting mummy instead. Can't begin to conceive that instances of rejection e.g. when upset or scared is likely a direct result of his petulant behaviour /sulking/tantrums and intolerance towards them. Zero insight that I may have left him because of the 2 decades of emotional abuse

This is him to a tee. I've looked up covert narcissist briefly this morning and it doesn't really seem to fit. It seems to describe people who are deliberately manipulative and I really don't think he is deliberate. I think it is more a complete inability to understand the effect of his behaviour on others. He just emotes without any apparent understanding of how that will be perceived by others, or how destruction that emoting is to what he actually wants to achieve (he can't understand its destructive as he can't understand how others are perceiving it). He has an extremely limited theory of mind I think.

Lack of empathy is part of the diagnostic criteria. Other features you have described; lack of emotional regulation and insight into his own behaviour, lack of forward planning and also lack of reflection on past behaviour, an inability to change, inability to see things from another perspective

These bits are him too.

OP are you sure he's not showing signs of Early Onset Alzheimer's?
www.healthline.com/health/alzheimers-disease/early-onset-alzheimers

I feel for you so much and to all the people screaming at her to leave him, would you really walk away knowing that he could end up parenting the children alone for half of the week?

to all the people screaming at her to leave him, would you really walk away knowing that he could end up parenting the children alone for half of the week?

Fucking too right I would.

No one is actually screaming at the OP here to leave him; that is your perception.

Do you really think that such a man would at all want to parent his children going forward for half the week anyway let alone unsupervised?. This whole idea of 50/50 is a starting point too, not a fixed idea.

Regardless of why he is the ways he is it is not the OPs fault he is like this and she did not make him that way. OP has a choice re this man, her children do not.

@curtainsforme and you think her husband would be banned from ever seeing the children again? Get real if you do.
Do you have dc? If so would you be happy to leave them alone with this man for half of the week?
Op is in a terrible position and I can understand her logic, she feels that staying with him protects her dc from the more frightening alternative.

I'm sure op feels like she's being screamed at. Many people are berating her for not walking away. It isn't always that simple.

We have no idea how such a man would behave if op left. There is every chance he would pursue 50/50 and even if he didn't get it, would op want him to even spend a day a week with her dc without her there?

Staying with him as she is currently doing is not working either as these children are being further emotionally harmed by him. OP is unable to protect her own self, let alone her children, from the effects of his behaviour on them all. These young people could very well go onto accuse the OP of putting him before them thus further damaging their own relationship, they may well as adults decide not to see their mother at all.

Its not always easier to stay within such a relationship either; a person becomes further conditioned to being abused and otherwise ground down by same. The long term effects of his neglectful behaviour on his children are incalculable and will perhaps come out fully when they are themselves adult. No good will come from staying with such a man and her children will blame her for staying with him if she was to choose to.

*I can't help him anymore. I have no patience for him. I can't boost his self-esteem I just don't have it in me. This pathetic holding onto a sense of victimhood instead of accepting responsibility for how his life is and doing stuff to fix the bits that aren't working for him.

He really genuinely believes he loves his kids. He loves spending time with them. But it is about what he gets out of it. He can never put them first, hence the inability to put his emotions aside to centre on their's. But to an outsider he would look like a great dad, playing with them in the woods, building them tree houses. But its all about him. As soon as there is a conflict between his needs and theirs; he has to put himself first as he cannot see them. He just cannot see them as separate people with their own needs.*

@OP, I can relate. This is what I was dealing with - a man who when we had our first baby fell into a sort of nervous breakdown and had to be reassured by his mummy that everything was going to be ok. He was no longer my priority, the baby was, and he couldn't cope with it. It got worse.

Now I realise he has the emotional literacy of a carrot. I've divorced him. I'm now in the process of being taken to court by his mother because of her misplaced anger and it has rendered me in an absolute state of C-PTSD.

You need to leave / you need him to leave as you're doing your DC no favours. Get them out with you, get them play therapy, get yourself counselling. He's a monster. What happened when he was a child??

Do you really think that such a man would at all want to parent his children going forward for half the week anyway let alone unsupervised?

Yes, he absolutely will, and the fact that you won't accept that shows you haven't grasped the situation. Tbh I am pretty tired of people saying , ' Oh leave, he wont' want to see the kids anyway/will get bored of them.' He really won't. And I've seen plenty threads here from distraught mothers who aren't able to stop contact orders, and have to send their kids to spend time with their Fathers when they know it is bad for them. I've already seen on this thread how easy it will be to present my concerns about him as me being a bit 'hysterical and over protective/ anxious.'
@allfalldown47 Thank you. And thanks to all the posters who have shown understanding.

and you think her husband would be banned from ever seeing the children again? Get real if you do.

I did not say this?

Do you have dc? If so would you be happy to leave them alone with this man for half of the week?

Yes I do. No I would not be happy to do that. I would not stay with him though. The logic is flawed. The children already have a terrible life. OP isn't protecting them by staying with him.

Op is in a terrible position and I can understand her logic, she feels that staying with him protects her dc from the more frightening alternative.

I do understand, people in abusive situations often feel that way. It doesn't make it the right thing to do though. It happens because of fear.

To all who have responded to me, nobody has answered the crucial question. How will op keep her dc safe if they are away from her for potentially 50% of the time?
All those saying she needs to leave, don't seem to grasp that it isn't that simple or easy. Op would presumably done it years ago if it was!!

I'm sure op feels like she's being screamed at. Many people are berating her for not walking away. It isn't always that simple.

Not berating. Not saying it is simple.

I am saying it is the correct course of action. You don't remain in an abusive relationship for any reason.

To all who have responded to me, nobody has answered the crucial question. How will op keep her dc safe if they are away from her for potentially 50% of the time?

I can't answer the question. I don't know the answer. What I do know is that these children are living the shiftiest life and that is not ok. Keeping children with an abusive father to 'protect' them is not working.

All those saying she needs to leave, don't seem to grasp that it isn't that simple or easy. Op would presumably done it years ago if it was!!

I totally understand it's not that simple or easy. It is however an option that OP can explore.

@allfalldown47

Maybe you should answer the more crucial question..:what benefit is there in these children living with this man?

Some narcissists are malignant, meaning they do things to deliberately hurt you. Others just do stuff because they don't give a shit if it hurts you or not. Some are somewhere in the middle. Either way, they are still narcissists.

He clearly had some control over it if it is more noticable now that he has (trapped you) had kids with you.

Either way op though, get yourself and your kids away.

You sound absolutely desperate. I can understand why. Have you ever told him that you’re really unhappy and thinking of leaving (even if you’re not considering that at the moment). To kind of make him realise how serious his behaviour is. Tbh it sounds like he probably wouldn’t care, I’m just trying to think of any way to get through to him how serious his behaviour is.

What direct evidence do you have op about him wanting such from you re his children?

Abusive men often make noises about full custody, it’s all done to further intimidate and otherwise scare the mother. They do that because they can and such threats work on the mother all too well. It’s certainly working on and against you

OP narcissists aren’t deliberately malicious they just do whatever benefits they don’t care or think about collateral damage so long as it suits them

Example : an ex partner turns up to the family home (where ex lives with children) and removes all the furniture because as judge says it’s his. He can legally do it but he doesn’t have to do that to his kids. But he does it. He’ll even take his kids beds. No thought for the kids feelings in all this when then come home from school to find their things gone. When confronted by his kids later he will not accept it was wrong or hurtful or apologise or show any empathy. Usually he will manage to blame the kids (they r too sensitive etc etc). Another example might be throwing out a kids precious cuddly toy. No normal parent would do that. A narcissist would and would be completely unapologetic and angry that the child dare question him.

My advice would be that I think figuring out what the underlying issue with him is would help you in how best to address things. Maybe you could visit a psychologist to get help understanding the family dynamics and issues. I don’t think anyone on the internet will realistically be able to give you that level of understanding. Good luck!

OP to clarify I was one of the posters who said he likely wouldn’t want 50/50.

I don’t mean straight away - but once the reality of being a single man set in, lots of men don’t actually take up the 50/50 for long - would he not want to go out on the weekends/date ? Children cramp a single lifestyle & he may end up swooping in for his narcissistic supply from the kids every 2nd weekend or something.

If he can keep them alive every 2nd weekend that would be the majority of the month they aren’t exposed to his toxicity.

That’s why I said for this man it may be better to play reverse psychology & pretend you’re totally supportive of 50/50 - if you try and take them he will fight you.

Can I ask (total hypothetical here) what if you left him with the kids or (forbid) died ? How do you think he would cope as a single parent ? Because if you think he would cope really well then I’m wrong, he might truly want to be with his kids 50/50 long term. But if you think he would struggle, that he is only there for the good bits of parenting that make him feel good, it’s actually probable that he won’t end up sticking to 50/50.

I wish you & your children all the best with whatever you decide