Anyone else parent with someone with no empathy? How do you cope?

[notaprettygirl]

My children's father has almost no empathy to an extraordinary degree. He also has a strong belief he is always right. He is unable to understand other people's thoughts, feelings or behaviour. He doesn't hold other people in mind, at all. Not even his own children. This has all sorts of implications. He won't, for example, keep our youngest safe from cars as he just forgets he is meant to, and gets distracted by his own thoughts, leaving the youngest to wander into the road. As he is always right, he never learns from these times as he will never admit to making a mistake. He will actively deny demonstrable and provable reality to insist he is right. He appears to genuinely believe his blatant lies.

He is unable to read his children's emotions properly. So if one of our children has become emotionally overwhelmed, often by something his dad has done, their Dad will not calm his own emotions to deal with the child, but instead becomes emotionally overwhelmed by the child's anger or upset, and kicks off himself, making the child utterly distraught. Or if our toddler is upset, and he goes to comfort him and the toddler says, 'I want Mummy', he will respond by becoming angry and shouting ' Fuck this shit, what's wrong with me? Why don't you want me?' and storming out of the room, slamming the door. This is because he can only understand his own emotions.
He wants the emotional reward from his child being comforted by him and he cannot cope with rejection. He can't see the hurt child, he can only see his self and his own feelings.

Since having children I can really see that his behaviour is like that of a toddler - poor emotional regulation due to not being able to empathise with others.
I have asked him to go to GP for an assessment and see if there is any treatment- I have read about specific treatments for people who sound like him. I don't know if he will. And even if he does, he is completely unable to accept he has a problem.

I know people will helpfully ask why I had children with this man. Of course I regret it and is causes me deep pain that this seriously dysfunctional man is their Father. I didn't realise how bad he was till we had children. We had our own separate lives and got on well and there just weren't many things to bring us into conflict.
When things are calm and well he is fine, he is loving and affectionate (or appears that way, I realise now that these feelings are not real selfless love but him enjoying the feeling of being in love). But having children has caused stress he can't cope with and a need for attunement and othering someone else that he just can't do.

I don't know how to handle this anymore.

Presumably you know he is a narcissist then. Considering everything you say is textbook for that. Could even be a psychopath.

Honestly if it were me, I'd go for full custody of the children. And then move very far away from him.

Ok straight up (this is going to seem harsh but I think you should hear it ) from your replies am starting to get annoyed with you. You’re coming across more poorly with each post.

If he is so great & wonderful with them as you now describe, then maybe he isn’t harming them emotionally & is just a different kind of parent to you. Maybe you are overdramatic and hypersensitive, seeing problems that aren’t there. If they are close & love daddy & he does all this good for them, then what is your problem ?

Even parents with the best of intentions (like you) will emotionally hurt their kids in some way, shape or form at some stage of life.

Either it’s not that bad or you just like the comforts of the marriage & don’t want to leave.

Read "When Dad Hurts Mom" by Lundy Bancroft - all about the harm done to children in a household with a man like your DH - not necessarily physically or even obviously abusive to the mother. Lots of advice about how to explain this to professionals, how to decide whether to leave, how to protect your children whether you stay or go. His first book, "Why Does He Do That?" Is available online for free I think, and should also be useful to you.

You could try and start gathering evidence if you think you might end up in the Family Court or speaking to Children's Services. Eg any texts from him admitting that he did x, y or z, ask witnesses if they'd make a note of what they saw/heard; pics of destruction wrought by him if relevant. But yes, your best hope would be if he doesn't bother with the children so much if you go.

See, this thread is making me doubt myself. People keep saying ' he is like this' 'your kids are like this' And I think, well no, he's not like that or they aren't like that.
This is why it is so hard. I did go to women's aid once and came away feeling like an awful time waster. I was advised to go to couples' counselling! It just doesn't tick the boxes.

No empathy, only control yes no empathy, controlling though? Not in the way you think. I go out when I like (or used to before lockdown), i don't need to tell him where I am going. If I say, the house needs hoovering, can you do it? He will. it has to be something you ask to have done immediately as he won't hold it in mind to do at a later date. But something simple and easy like that he will understand and do. He cooks, he washes up. He thinks this makes him an amazing husband who does more than me (as he only sees what he does not what I do), rather than just being normal. But still.

If he is so great & wonderful with them as you now describe, then maybe he isn’t harming them emotionally & is just a different kind of parent to you

No, I don't think he is great or wonderful. I think he is a fucking awful parent. Because parenting is not about just doing the stuff you enjoy.
It is about being able to see and attune to your children and putting them first when that is needed. He can only do the bits he is interested in and enjoys.
it's not normal to scream at a toddler who wants the other parent to comfort them. It's not normal to be unable to control yourself when your child is upset and to become emotionally disregulated.

But I can't give you a simple narrative of ' he is awful adn ticks all these boxes all the time'. It's just not like that. I know that simplicity is what people want to hear on here, but that is not what I am living.
This is not a man with a different parenting style. I absolutely believe there is something deeply wrong with him. He is far from normal.

@creaturcomforts my ex was exactly like this, couldn't admit fault. Everything had to be perfect, although the same rules as such did not apply to himself. Refused to take blame for everything. Totally narcissist. It's a mother issue in my opinion, raising sons like this. Making them think the Sun shines out of their arse. And I can guarantee that I won't let my son grow up and think the world revolves around him.

Op I think you should Speak with someone about the emotional abuse, it's impossible to put up with it long term. My heart really goes out to you.

You can feel doubtful or wether it's abusive or not and wether he just can't help it due to having no empathy, but is he putting himself first or the kids? Not all controlling behaviour is the same, there are subtle differences. He may not tell you what you can and can't do, but he controls yours and the kids reactions with his temper and refusing to acknowledge he's done anything wrong. It's like a mind manipulation more than anything as he needs you and the children to look good and prove to himself and other people that he's a good dad and partner.

The children know how to behave most of the time to not lose his love, but when they rebel he acts up to let them know their out of line, he may well love them in his own way but it's not what a child needs.

If they are close & love daddy & he does all this good for them, then what is your problem ?

Because he can only do the good stuff. As soon as things are not going well he gets completely disregulated. He has no ability to cope with this, to an extreme degree. He cannot understand other people well enough to understand why they are behaving as they do, he just becomes agitated and angry at their behaviour. He becomes overwhelmed by it and acts out, like a toddler.

" I go out when I like (or used to before lockdown), i don't need to tell him where I am going. "

He does not have to do that to control you, he manipulates you in far more subtle ways. He is certainly emotionally harming his children in front of your eyes and has you wondering which way is up. He can do tasks not directly related to childcare (it is not beyond most adults to be able to cook and wash up); its all very undemanding and besides which you are taking on far more of the mental load. What this man does works for him and he does this too because he can, you also are allowing this to happen within your home.

You may have been poorly advised one time by WA but I am wondering whether you were fully truthful with them when you spoke to them. They would recommend counselling for your own self and importantly on your own, not joint counselling.

It sounds agonisingly difficult, OP. I wonder if counselling for yourself would help you talk through your options objectively (I know you believe you are doing so, and you may be, but so often we can't see as objectively as we think, in the midst of it all.). As it's not a "typical" LTB situation (sweeping generality I'm sorry) it needs a lot of exploring and explaining and it seems to me that a professional listener is what you need here. I'm sorry.

It started out sounding like someone putting their kids in danger, but now it seems more like a difference in parenting style. That he is selfish in character but not necessarily the type of negligent parent who should not get access to his kids.

Is it at all possible you have anxiety & visualising the kids in danger rg running on the road, worrying he isn’t watching them closely enough etc... stressing about his responses potentially emotionally damaging the kids but it was a different parenting style?

I am not saying you are imagining these problems, but when you come on here with your original post presented as one way, then later present the situation as quite different to what you originally describe then it’s difficult to get advice.

What I will say is your warped reasoning of staying with someone causing your kids emotional harm being the right option because then you can control the fallout ? That is classic way of thinking from someone with an abusive person.

He could also be a psychopath from what you describe. You need professional help, more than what Mumsnet can provide. If you went to women’s aid did you feel this is an abusive relationship ? Why women’s aid if he is supposedly such a good father in most respects ?

Where do you see yourself in six months time, let alone 3-5 years from now?. Still with him?.

Wait? You are still with him? I thought he was just baby daddy.

Get the fuck outa there! Hills are that way >>>>

You know something is seriously wrong. There is no professional help that can cure a lack of empathy. A psychopath is a psychopath. So stop kidding yourself that this will have a happy ending. Get you and the kids as far away from him as possible! By any means necessary. Start by moving out with them and getting a good lawyer.

but is he putting himself first or the kids? Not all controlling behaviour is the same, there are subtle differences. He may not tell you what you can and can't do, but he controls yours and the kids reactions with his temper and refusing to acknowledge he's done anything wrong. It's like a mind manipulation more than anything as he needs you and the children to look good and prove to himself and other people that he's a good dad and partner

He puts himself first as he can't see other people. Other people only exist in terms of how they make him feel. I genuinely think that is the only way he can understand other people. I do not not think it is an attempt at mind control as to do that he would be able to understand other people's thoughts emotions and behaviour and he can't. I genuinely don't believe he has the emotional intelligence needed to be deliberately controlling.

He sounds like a narc

Also, it isnt that he doesnt understand. He gets it. He just doesnt care! Other peoples feelings mean nothing to him because he hasn't the emotional capacity for empathy. It is nothing to do with intelligence.

What vikingwife wrote above, particularly this part of this poster's comment:-

"What I will say is your warped reasoning of staying with someone causing your kids emotional harm being the right option because then you can control the fallout ? That is classic way of thinking from someone with an abusive person."

You have a choice re this man, your children do not. They have to follow your lead here. What sort of a relationship would you want your children to have with their partner as adults, surely not one like this. But you are still showing them that currently at least, this is still acceptable to you on some level.

Im pretty sure my dad is also autistic. He doesnt really get anyone's perspective of needs other than his own without explanation. Some of his behaviour is due to him really not getting it.

However my duaghter is autistic (and maybe myself?) And v capable of empathy and seeing other people's perspective.

However being autistic doesnt explain unwillingless to try or all the behaviour. I think my dad is autistic AND which is importnat.

Its so hard when to the outside worl dhe seems charming and lovely and he genuinely has no clue how abusive he was and doesnt believe in regrets.

"He puts himself first as he can't see other people. Other people only exist in terms of how they make him feel".

Or what he can get out of them in terms of how useful they are to him.

My guess is that he treats his work colleagues with respect (narcissists also fear authority figures) and certainly far better than you as his family are treated.

I am not saying you are imagining these problems, but when you come on here with your original post presented as one way, then later present the situation as quite different to what you originally describe then it’s difficult to get advice

Both of those ways he is are true. It's really not a difference in parenting style. That would imply he is a normal human being and he really is not. I am not being hysterical about the roads. I think some other parents see me as too lax in terms of the kids safety. But a small child who likes to run into roads as he likes being 'naughty' needs to be watched. Would you let a two year old run unsupervised around a busy bank holiday car park? To run unsupervised down a pavement next to busy commuter road at rush hour?

Deliberately controlling? No but deep down a person knows that if they pout sulk, throw a tantrum they get their way. It's a childish behaviour

A child that does this is not controlling as it's part of their nature and they haven't learnt the emotional intelligence to deal with the issue properly, it's a very primitive form of behaviour. But this behaviour in an adult that should know better?

So could he be on the autistic spectrum OP? Have you considered that?

My guess is that he treats his work colleagues with respect (narcissists also fear authority figures) and certainly far better than you as his family are treated

Nah, he's been in trouble for his behaviour in previous jobs.

He has no empathy- he doesn't realise how he comes across.

I'm autistic. I am not an abusive cunt 🤷🏻‍♀️

A child that does this is not controlling as it's part of their nature and they haven't learnt the emotional intelligence to deal with the issue properly, it's a very primitive form of behaviour

See, I think that is why he is like that. its a lack of emotional intelligence.

So could he be on the autistic spectrum OP? Have you considered that?
I have considered that. I asked him to go for an assessment he said he would but he never did.