How can I get over my MIL's lies?

[Festipal]

There isn't really anything anyone can do but tonight I discovered 2 life changing lies my MIL has told and I don't know what to do to come to terms with the news.

First she's lied to her solicitor saying I'm asking her to do things with her will which I absolutely am not. Her will, her son, nothing to do with me. Her solicitor is now questioning my DH's involvement in his DM's financial affairs. Involvement he has never shown any interest in and it's all been her involving him. Hell he's not even involved in our family finances. I do it all! And I have shown no interest in her finances or will whatsoever. He has never initiated a conversation with her about her finances and has never even shown an opinion on what she should do. She has an IFA for that. But this lie could be life changing for him/us if she cuts us/him out and leaves it directly to our DCs. That's where discussions are currently heading.

The second is the money she offered/ promised us towards a new house. We are going through the process of buying a new house (conveyancing etc on hold at the moment obviously). However today she has put an offer in on a new house which she can only finance with the money she had promised to us for the sale of the house we're in the middle of buying. She's seen the photos. She's asked us about it. She knows how excited the DCs are. And there's absolutely no way we could afford this, or any other house, without her help. So she lied when she promised us the money for the house and that dream is gone.

I'm sitting here wondering how on earth the DCs will take the news. I'm absolutely shell shocked. She is absolutely entitled to do what she wants with her money. We've never asked or expected. We cut our cloth according to our means. I just don't understand why she's lying about me meddling in her will and going behind our back and buying a house on the sly! It's such an odd scenario but she definitely has all her mental capacities.

I'm just looking for help getting over the betrayal really.

I do find it weird that so many people are jumping down your throat OP. Money is important and finding a forever home is an aspiration many of us hand and understand.

I think PP have it righr that your MiL is probably very embarrassed and a series of Chinese whispers have lead to her friend making accusations. Have a big glass of wine, let the dust settle, and ask DH to raise it with her when everything has calmed down.

"Mum - I don't know what was said between you and your friend, but when she spoke to @Festipal, she implied that Festipal had been interfering with your will. I'm sure that's not what you said - can you explain as Festipal is very hurt."

It must be horrible to lose the house, but I think telling the DC it's fallen through due to Covid is a good idea. When you upsize, you'll know that it was all due to your/DH's hard work and you aren't beholden to anyone.

St0p I particularly agree with

telling the DC it's fallen through due to Covid is a good idea. When you upsize, you'll know that it was all due to your/DH's hard work and you aren't beholden to anyone.

And remember mil will have plenty of cash to get outside help shoidl she need any in the future. After all you aren't trustworthy.
And can't see dh wiping her bum.

I don't think you sound grabby at all, I'm very confused by some of these responses!

I don’t think you sound grabby. It sounds like MIL had second thoughts (completely fine) but sadly she wasn’t honest to herself or her friend about that.

Rather then just admit she’s changed her mind she’s twisted the story when telling her friend. You became the bad guy, because obviously it wouldn’t be her son or her!

Grabby because thinking how inheritance is so life changing if it doesn't go to son rather than DGC.... Don't spout entitled statements such and earn your own money to pay for your future. If this isn't enough or comparable to what others have accept that and live within your means.

We thought she needed advice not us! We thought we'd done everything right by her but apparently not according to MN jury and her it turns out. The deprivation of assets is immaterial now as she's buying a house and giving us £0. I understand it may have been relevant in the scheme of things but we assumed her IFA would advise her. And isn't relevant now as no money will be coming to us.

Sorry, you're trying to brush this off as 'not relevant now' but it is. Deprivation of assets is a big deal. There is no time limit on when local authorities can seek to recover money they deem has been disposed of in this way. So at any time, and even 10+ years down the line, in the very likely event of your MIL needing care, you could have been forced to sell your dream home for them to claw this money back.

Are you really saying you had no awareness of this at all? It's been in the news for years now. Anyone with an elderly parent is faced with the notion that they may never inherit anything as it is all liable to go on care. We all have to accept that. Yet you seem not to have planned for that at all, beyond some vague noises about the possibility of a granny annexe and the idea that you will 'support' your husband if his mother needs care (believe me, that's a much more distanced way of putting it than the reality turns out to be).

If you didn't go into this thinking that somehow the financial liability for her bad decisions would fall on your MIL and not touch you, then you just didn't think at all. You've either been cynical or foolish - to be honest, you are probably lucky to have avoided the deprivation of assets scenario.

We've never asked or expected. We cut our cloth according to our means.

This doesn't really square with the above. Or with the idea that you'd take such a large sum towards a house but seem never to have seriously discussed the prospect that later on, you'd either need to sell the house, or move an elderly woman in with you and provide whatever care she needed - personal care (would her son want to do that?) dementia care, all of it. As I said, I think you've actually avoided something potentially very damaging and your MIL has, at the eleventh hour, got advice that is actually better for all of you.

Lemon Spot on!

It sounds like the UFA did advise her correctly in the end, its a pity it didn't happen sooner.

You need to consider that her friend might be the one making accusations rather than your MIL because she is angry that you didn't turn her down in the first place and explain clearly to her why it wasn't in her or your best interests to rent and give you money and indeed, if I was the friend, I would have concluded like many here have that it suited you very well to act like it was ok because it was what she wanted.

Most elderly at 80 don't have the sane ability to think things through clearly. Their decisions are driven by anxiety. If she never had to make such decision before because her husband did, the prospect of buying would have been very scary to her. She needed those who love her to insist that buying was best for her, with patience and time. Ultimately time and right advice from others help her get there, but this should have come from her son rather than her best friend and IFA.

As for the children, how manipulative! All you have to say is that granny is buying a new house instead which will be much better for her and can't give the money any longer but they'll be able to go and play in her new house.

Are you saying that you can't get a dog because you don't currently have a large garden?

I do get your disappointment, I totally due but your oh and you are vastly responsible for it. If you'd insisted and said clearly to her that taking her money was not an option and you instead by as increase your hours, you wouldn't be facing that disappointment right now.

I feel so sorry for your mail who must be besides herself knowing how disappointed you'll be and blaming herself 100% for it even though the blame is mainly in you. I do hope her son will at least realise this and be god to her rather than pretend to be do just so that he doesn't get to miss on the inheritance.

I don't think you sound grabby at all. You've done the right thing all along (eg with the IFA) and the plan is clearly to have her come stay with you (and I presume have you care for her) when she needs a little more help/a little less independence. I think it makes utter sense that she would offer to help you move into a house that you and your family could grow into, particularly if she plans to live with you down the line.

I agree that she's probably making decisions in the face of personal trauma and she may be reconsidering her decision. But I do think it's spineless of her not to tell you herself--or, better, to talk honestly with her child. That she couldn't do that (taking your interactions with her as you've written them here) is about her, not about you. It doesn't make it easier, but it does mean that you shouldn't feel guilty.

It's within her rights to change her mind, of course, but it's awful that it's gotten this late. I assume having her friend tell you is partly because she left it so late.

Finally, again, you seem to have been operating with her best interests in mind, from the IFA to helping her find a place to making sure the new house would have a granny annexe for her. I would be very hurt to be accused of bad intentions after that.

I didn't mean to sound critical and I'm sorry that your MILs offer has been rescinded @Festipal That's a crappy thing to do, particularly when she didn't have the decency to tell you herself.

I do think that it's a bit of a blessing in disguise for you though. If she had gifted your family the money but then gone on to need expensive care you would be expected to foot the bill which could have caused you real financial problems.

I hope you haven't wasted too much on conveyancing. Could you look at extending your current home as a less expensive option than moving?

Has your DH spoken to her yet? I don't think it's odd that, as an only child, your DH expects to inherit from his parents. I expect to inherit from mine because I drew up their will and I know what it says! Obviously if they move into care then all bets are off but you can't live life on maybes.

Money is important and finding a forever home is an aspiration many of us hand and understand

Of course it is, but you don’t take all your elderly parents money to fund it.

And I agree the Ifa has done their job. And it looks like some friends have stepped in to protect this lady, so ultimately the right outcome.

I’m sorry op but even if she did offer, I’m not convinced she offered so much and even if she did, it should have been refused.

I'm sorry OP, I don't think you deserve a hard time. As others have said, tell your DH to speak to her and make all arrangements from now on. I'm not sure why you should go the extra mile to help someone so happy to turn this on you.

If there's any hope of still moving please look into it - extending mortgage term may help/extending instead of moving etc - it's a shame to give up on a dream house if there are other ways to achieve it.

I don't think the situation regarding deprivation of assets is as clear cut as some posters are saying. You are not prohibited from gifting assets just because you are elderly. There needs to be an intention to deprive (regardless of what local authorities would like us to believe) and that requires knowledge that your actions will mean you need assistance. So, if you already have health issues and you know they are likely to get worse you didn't ought to be giving away your assets. If you are fit and healthy and go to the golf club 3 times a week you are not expected to know that you are going to have a massive stroke next year. The system is a mess.

I don't really think you've done anything wrong. She offered this money, you didn't ask for it. Even if mil had given you 150K to buy the £450,000 house, that would still have left her with £150,000 in the bank. I can't see what's wrong in accepting money from your own mum/mil to buy a family home - as a parent I want my money to benefit my kids and (separate discussion) having paid tax on the income in the first place, I think it's morally wrong for the state to seize that money in care home fees.
Given that this was entirely her idea, I think it's despicable to pull out at this stage, when you have presumably paid out for surveys etc and your DC are all excited. And getting her friend to tell you and imply abise is cowardly and she ought to be thoroughly ashamed!

All that said, you are honestly better off not proceeding, even though it doesn't feel like it now. You won't have any moral or financial obligations to her in the future - you can literally wash your hands of any responsibility. There won't be any messy issues wrt inheritance tax or care home fees that could affect your own future financial position.

I think your husband has to talk to her and make it clear that getting her friend to do this on her behalf was appalling behaviour. If it was me I'd be tempted to send a solicitor's letter threatening legal action if she slandered me again, but probably don't do this unless you want to explore a bomb in your marriage! But I would be really mad about the abuse implications and I would expect my husband to be vociferous in dealing with that. I think he's been allowed to opt out a bit too much but she's his mother and he needs to deal with her going forward.

There are a lot of people on here who seem to be wilfully misinterpreting what the OP says, despite the OP having answered several questions.

Of course it is, but you don’t take all your elderly parents money to fund it.

If you read the OP's update you'll see that this is not true. The sum that was agreed was considerably less than MIL's share of the equity in her former marital home, and that this did not touch or take into account other forms of money that MIL has - including SIPPs and ISAs. It's rather unfair to imply that the OP was going to take every penny her MIL has.

And I find this another bizarre function of MN logic.

There are plenty of threads on here from people who want to help their children buy property - or move to bigger properties that are better suited for their children's growing families. Everyone agrees that there is nothing wrong to want to help your kids if you are financially able.

Yet here is a thread about someone who has been offered exactly that help, but is now being castigated for wanting to accept it. I don;t understand what the issue is, unless there is an age cut-off for offer and acceptance of help where it becomes inappropriate, according to MN standards?

We have read what the OP has saiid. The fact remains her MiL has got independent advice and that is not to do this. It’s not in her interest. How can you dispute that.

Nobody takes £100’s K from a frail elderly person who appears to be vulnerable. No matter how much it is offered. How would do you not think about her need for care which she will have to pay for? Never mind Deprivation of assets and the disadvantage to the grandchildren from this gift Of £100k’s to the OP and her husband. Not to the GC, who get a dog and will probably never see a share of the inheritance for decades if at all.

*The sum that was agreed was considerably less than MIL's share of the equity in her former marital home, and that this did not touch or take into account other forms of money that MIL has - including SIPPs and ISAs"
And if you bothered to read, you'd see that OP said that MIL wouldn't be able to have bought a house herself without using that money.

So it comes down to MIL renting, meaning putting herself at risk of eviction at any time, something that would be really stressful for any 80 to just so that OP can have a fancy bigger house.

It also appears that the advice of going to an IFA came very late, ie. at the time when MIL needed legal help to transfer the money rather than 2 years ago.

It astounds me how people have little understanding of how most 80 year old will be vulnerable, especially one divorcing after many years of marriage. We get posts after posts of young women feeling insecure after divorce when married only a few years, so we can assume it would have been very frightening for an 80yo.

Her family should have been there to help her make the best choices for her not themselves, however much her gift was well intentioned.

Incredible how many grabby people there seem to be on MN.

We have read what the OP has saiid. The fact remains her MiL has got independent advice and that is not to do this. It’s not in her interest. How can you dispute that.

I wasn't aware that OP's MIL had received different independent advice telling her not to do that. OP said that she and her DH had been very clear that MIL should seek financial advice before committing to anything - which she did. It's only recently that MIL has changed her mind, and it's not clear whether that change of heart has come about as a result of new advice or not.

As to whether it's in her best interests or not - nobody on here can say. Giving someone £150k (for example) is a huge amount of money, but that becomes less of an issue if the giver is taking it from a pot of £1m which they don't need. It's all relative - yet people are making assumptions that OP is draining every last copper from an old lady!

And if you bothered to read, you'd see that OP said that MIL wouldn't be able to have bought a house herself without using that money.

I did bother to read. I also bothered to read the OP's updates which said that her MIL was insistent on renting, not buying. And that the change of heart for buying a property was very recent. And that OP supports her MIL's right to do what she wants with her money - whether that's buy a house, or spend it all on the local cat's home - but that what hurts is being lied to, and then lied about.

So it comes down to MIL renting, meaning putting herself at risk of eviction at any time, something that would be really stressful for any 80 to just so that OP can have a fancy bigger house.

I'm not sure if it's your intention to imply that the OP has forced her MIL to rent, just to preserve a cash pot for OP to spend on housing herself. Reading OP's post and updates that does not seem to be the case. OP's issue is not the money - although she is understandably disappointed at a last minute change of mind after two years of being offered financiel help. Her issue is being upset that MIL wasn't honest with them, and has then lied about being pressured directly by OP - when OP has clearly said that she avoids financial conversations with her MIL altogether.

The bottom line is, whatever MIL promised, she would not be allowed to do it. There are laws about large cash gifts and if it were easily doable countless parents and grandparents would be doing it. It's viewed as tax avoidance and, as many have pointed out, it's classed as deliberate deprivation of assets. There's also the matter of the tapered 7 year inheritance tax claw back. In her ignorance she made a genuine promise, she (eventually) took legal advice, she was told she can't just do that, she has told you via her friend (because she's frightened of you) and you now want to punish her - an elderly lady on her own.

You made out you are the financially savvy one in your family, well unfortunately you are not that savvy as this plan was never a goer. You said yourself you were rude to her when she called to speak to you (because busy blah blah). If someone were planning to hand me 150K for nothing, I think I could find it in me to be polite when they call. So she got her friend to call you with the bad news. I imagine the poor woman is beside herself.

Sorry but you sound very entitled. Nobody is owed an inheritance and if there is any money left after care costs etc. then you should be bloody grateful if she decides to leave it to your DC (I would be over the moon knowing my DC had some financial security), and if you decide to be cruel to her because she bypasses you in favour of your DC then that paints you in a very poor light.

@Tappering you are spot on in your clarifications.

To clear up a few points.

She offered the money the first time 2 years ago. 2 years ago she got an IFA after getting £300k from the sale of the family home and trying to give it all to us for the house we had already started looking for.

The IFA has been managing that £300k for the last 2 years. She has been in touch with the IFA about the money and the IFA knew what she wanted to do with it. How much of that we needed depended on the house we found. We were never ever going to take all her money. She also has other pots of money so even if we had accepted the proceeds of the house (which we were never ever going to) she would have had maintenance plus SIPP plus ISAs plus Premium Bonds. I have remembered she said in the past she has the maximum invested in Premium Bonds but I don't know what that is and whilst I could Google it in a way that would be snooping on her finances.

When we found a house DH spoke to the IFA on the phone to check the money was still available, after speaking to his DM to check the offer was still there. She gave DH the IFA's phone number. Then to agree an amount and how it would be given we all had a meeting the week before lockdown. Everything was agreed and nothing was put in writing which may have been a mistake but even if it had I would hardly have held her to it!

What I'm hurt about is the 2 big lies which are in my original post. The lie about pressurising her regarding her will which never ever happened but of course it sounds terrible and her friend and solicitor would be right to change her will to protect her from that sort of abusive person. But that is a complete work of fiction which may lead to DH being disinherited at a time when the money could be put to use for the benefit of the DCs childhood. Although of course coming into that level of money at 18 would be amazing for them. It's a life changing decision founded on a lie.

The other harm caused is proceeding with another house purchase behind our backs when the money has been previously allocated to the house we're in the process of buying. Yes it's hers to do what she wants with. Yes if she'd told us she'd changed her minds we would have been disappointed but understood and never ever make her feel guilty about it. But it's the dishonesty about the house purchase and the 'send the messager' approach she's taken that hurts most.

I can see the second lie 'I'll give you some money for a bigger house' may not in fact have been a lie. She intended to do it but then changed her mind during lockdown and now wants to buy her own house. That's fine. I could live with that. What I can't live with is trying to deflect the fall out she thinks there will be from letting us down by fabricating a story about me pressuring her about her will so the 'only' sensible course of action any reasonable person with those 'facts' would recommend is buy your own house for yourself, as you've indicated you wanted, and change the will so the person who pressurised you doesn't benefit. With those 'facts' about a grabby DIL there's plenty on this thread who came to that conclusion.

But that pressure never happened and I'm almost convinced from thoughts people on this thread have shared is that it's a deflecting device to stop us being upset with her. We would have been upset about the house but we wouldn't have been upset AT her. Unfortunately this route she's chosen I'm not just upset I'm furious at the shadow it casts on my character!

Have you or your dh talked to your mil since the messenger got involved?

I think you have been given a rough time on here. @Festipal. I was the first pp who said she probably did mean it at the time.

I get the disappointment about the house and I too would be seething if it was suggested I asserted undue influence over her. That is not a nice thing to have said about you. Having reflected on the situation I hope you have gotten over the initial shock of it all.

When you feel up to it I suspect a quick chat to say something along the lines of "we are looking forward to seeing your new place MIL. However I was a little taken back that you felt we had pressurised you into gifting money to us. " Hopefully she will apologise and say that was not what she meant at all and that she felt pressurised to give money to you because of her own offer and now realised she cant see it through.

The bottom line is, whatever MIL promised, she would not be allowed to do it. There are laws about large cash gifts and if it were easily doable countless parents and grandparents would be doing it.

I'm not sure that's strictly the case that MIL would not be allowed to do it. Yes there are laws about deprivation of assets - but it's not as clear-cut as saying "You've given someone a lump of money, therefore you must have been intending to hide your assets". Presumably this was one of the reasons why OP and her H wanted MIL to get proper financial advice before she decided on what she wanted to do. It's also completely dependent on whether MIL ends up needing care or not - bearing in mind the original plan for the new house included the potential for a granny annex for MIL.

There are also laws around IHT, but again the taxation burden only applies over a 7 year period - and tapers. Lots of people receive sizeable cash sums from relatives - it's very common.

You said yourself you were rude to her when she called to speak to you (because busy blah blah). If someone were planning to hand me 150K for nothing, I think I could find it in me to be polite when they call.

If we're being accurate, then you don't know how much OP and her H were promised, because she hasn't said in any of her posts. Secondly OP said that MIL wanted to talk about her will - OP was not comfortable with this and so was a little abrupt which may have come across as being a little rude. If you want to be really impartial, then isn't there an argument to say that withdrawing a long-promised offer of financial assistance on the strength of one abrupt phone call, could be seen to be quite reactive and controlling?

So she got her friend to call you with the bad news

I don't think it's fair to correlate MIL's decision to use a messenger, with OP's phone call. You're also overlooking what OP has said about her IL family being very averse to delivering bad news or having difficult conversations.