But we took you to Stately Homes - May 2020 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's May 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
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Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi Dacquoise😊 you've done a great job of navigating things🏆
it's very difficult because something in us still longs that close relationship, for loyalty that is deserved and respected.
It sounds as if your brother is still deep in FOG, it sounds very 'crabs in a bucket' as if all they can do is drag each other back down? ☹️

Thank you Attila and Flimflam for your comments. I just needed to vent. I have no intention of going anywhere near that rabbit hole but it doesn't stop it hurting me and confusing me. I just don't understand how someone can be so callous and disinterested in you for ten years and then expect you to play happy families like nothing has happened. No introspection about the way they have treated me, no apology. Like nothing has happened.

I have already blocked DB on my phone which is ironic as the last time he condescended to contact me was 2016! As for my email I can't do anything until I get home. I am on holiday at the moment (first world problems ).

You are absolutely spot on Flimflam, the fantasy still persists about 'family' even if the reality is hopeless. I do feel quite angry about the cheek of it. I am firmly out of the madness and intend to stay that way.

Dacquoise

Was not all that surprised to read that the family imploded further once you as their scapegoat had removed yourself from them.

Such people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

Indeed stay away from the madness they bring!.

Your DB is only wanting you back to offload onto. Don't do it!

Feeling similar pressures right now. For a while my brothee seemed calmly neutral outwardly at least, he sent me a whatsapp that was unnecessarily snippy the other day

[quote SugarbabyMilly]@Fl1mflam
yes you are probably right. My parents use money and practical ‘help’ to manipulate me. Everything they do gets thrown back in my face.[/quote]
Snap. They would deny it, but feel entitled to treat you thoughtlessly because they have bought the right.

Yes that occurred to me too. He has a completely dysfunctional marriage, very similar to my parents. Constant rows and upheaval for their children. Sister in law's a functioning alcoholic in my opinion. Used to walk eggshells around her. My use to my DB was unpaid counsellor, provider of meals and social life and door mat to wipe feet on. Why it upsets me that he now wants contact is inexplicable really! He is totally toxic as a sibling.

Sorry @Dacquoise you are ten years in!
Respect x
Sorry it is all coming back at you now but if it doesnt sound too insensitive it is interesting and validating to read that the family implodes with its scapegoat.
🍷

Not insensitive at all WiserOlder. Just shows that they do turn on each other anyway. I find it fascinating too in a bizarre way. I predicted this would eventually happen but it didn't make the pain of being isolated and 'familyless' any better at the time. However, loving partner later with a family that have 'adopted' me, has given me a happy ending. I am very grateful.

When I finally walked as the family scapegoat - I heard that the alcoholic Narc spent her evenings drunk ranting and raving about me to anyone who would listen. The rest of the family then complained that I had abandoned the family and couldn’t believe I was not back to take the punches again within months.

That was the biggest revelation - that the others thought I should put up and shut up - but I know the reason is because my departure now exposed them to the rage and abuse.

She started on someone else within 4 months of my departure. It’s like a game of Jenga or Ker-plunk .... remove one strategic part (the scape goat) and they all in time implode.

It's only when you're not smashed that you can see the role that you served and why people want you back in your box

My parents and my brother are all quite buttoned up. I think the three of them can sit around talking about how unhinged i am for years. My brother does want me back in the penn though. Interestingly. If I am paranoid, difficult, emotional and if my parents have endured so much of my shouting over the years 🤔 then he should be relieved. My parents havent communicated with me for 5 months now though so not sure what my brother thinks i should do.
I saw the therapist earlier. It helps.

That phrase 'abandoned the family' was used about me too which is very strange as it implies disloyalty to a common cause. Yet not one of them has shown any loyalty to me, ever. You don't leave because you're disloyal. You leave because you can't take the unreasonableness of everyone around you. It's like the child in the Emperor's new clothes. You can see the 'emperor' is a deluded naked lunatic dictator but everyone is telling you you're seeing things.

Yes. That is how i feel now.

Have they no comprehension of how cruelly they are be having.

I said to the therapist it is a wound on a wound on a wound.
First having labelled me paranoid and difficult
Second glossing over it with a bored wave of the hand
Third getting ANGRY with me for being upset
Fourth - shutting down all communication and icing me for having dared to be hurt.

If they watched somebody behave this coldly in a film they would empathise with the scapegoated character, but they are blind. So cosily deluded it makes me angry. They back each other up and dont have to feel any of the things i have to feel.
The only thing they feel is right

Unfortunately you can't make deluded dysfunction al people see reason and that is the tragedy of the scapegoat. You have to leave for the sake of your sanity. You end up alone and isolated. However, ultimately you do 'win' because distance, mixing with normal people and if you are lucky, a good therapist gives you clarity and validation. I have never felt freer and calmer until I got out. It's not always easy especially when 'family' pop up but I will never go back.

@Dacquoise definitely agree with that.

I know. I'm single and my teenagers go to my parents house. I feel mobbed. Im used to being alone but the irony. I am so much more resilient than my father was/is. At my age he was in a psychiatric hospital after depression (for years) and paranoid delusions. I am not criticising or unsympathetic to depression but i cannot believe the text book scapegoating that completely escapes their notice. They made me doubt my reality. I am not looking for a medal but im on my own, single parent, ft job, teenagers and im coping ok. The actual nerve of them defending their right to have called me paranoid as a teen and from then on. I should be calming down after 5 months.
Im getting angrier still.
The calming down hasnt commenced yet.

Ps and yes, without being eroded by them i have optimism. I have faith in my ability to mix and be friendly and to 'belong'.

Just had a phone call from relative as some sort of family drama and was asked in a whisper to call police.

So I did that, but am now a bit nervous police might call round here afterwards to update me but I've got a lurgy and need bedrest. I'm going to have to stay on alert in case the front door goes and it's a bit late.

Asked in a whisper to call the police
Asking in a whisper sounds a bit theatrical Frownette🤔 could it be some sort of Hoover?
(Sorry to hear about the lurgy and If genuine I hope everything works out ok 🙏)

I'm getting angrier still
I hear you and it does feel a bit much carrying such fury around, I find it somewhat helpful to keep a log of the level of anger
I note how furious I feel when I first wake up and then I see how I feel about an hour later, just making a graph or a table where I can see that my anger score is going down helps me to feel a bit more in control.

@Fl1mflam

Asked in a whisper to call the police Asking in a whisper sounds a bit theatrical Frownette🤔 could it be some sort of Hoover? (Sorry to hear about the lurgy and If genuine I hope everything works out ok 🙏)

Oh it was just that the person who called said in a whisper to call the police so that other person didn't hear them calling police and go crazy. Think they were smashing things.

I didn't shift from my bed the whole time but did call police. I was a bit alarmed when they texted me a crime ref but looks like it's all resolved for tonight, at least.

Welcome to my world. Sorry, I don't feel like going into more specifics, just want to rest now.

@ all of you who have had pressure put on you to return to your family, can you imagine any other situation where people would tell someone that in order to make things better all he or she needs to do is go back to spending time with the person who abused them for years?

It's completely crazy.

There is this huge pressure in society on parents - mothers in particular - to be completely perfect.

And yet, when children say that their parents aren't perfect, indeed are very far from perfect, nobody believes them.

Again, completely crazy.