But we took you to Stately Homes - May 2020 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's May 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
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Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@Notmenottoday I’m dipping in as I have a banging migraine but just want to say so sorry you feel low, you are right to feel what you feel (however horrible that is) This is a VERY supportive place. Welcome. And take good care tonight. People will be here tomorrow to chat with - me too. Painkillers will kick in! Look after yourself x

Hi @MonkeyfromManchester thank you so much for replying. I’m sorry you have a migraine & hope the painkillers help, migraines are the worst. Thank you for taking the time even though you aren’t feeling great, I appreciate it. I feel like no one in my life understands this xx

Hi Notmenottoday😊
I think I can relate to what you say
I used to see my parents as the good one and the bad one, now I see them as the volatile one and the strategic one.... two sides of the same coin and I suppose if you think about it one dysfunctional person is likely to attract someone who corresponds to them in some way...ie another dysfunctional person
(it reminds me a bit of The golden child scapegoat dynamic)
You looked up to him respected him and trusted him, treated him as if he was important but he was not worthy of that, he casually discarded you in favour of his new family
this is horrifying, so painful so insulting to be cast away by someone that you respected and trusted.
I would suggest that for him being a good father and a grandfather, comes not from concern and empathy for his children and grandchildren rather is a way of stroking his ego and that is what motivates him.
How are you feeling now, can you give yourself some time for to grieve for what you thought he was and accept how he really is?
Have you decided how to respond to his illness?
(I'm a long-term poster on this thread who has recently NC'd)

I’ve tried so hard in past years to forge the relationship I thought we had as a child. He was the thing I clung to as a child, it was hard to realise as an adult that this was an illusion and now I just feel so very sad that it will never be more
This is really hard, to realise that what you thought was solid is just empty space☹️
He should have had your back, should have put your first but he didn't, you deserve much better than that.
How are things with your mother, can you move towards shrugging her off somehow?

@Fl1mflam thank you so much for your reply. I completely relate to that view, growing up it was the good one and the bad one and you are right, it’s actually something different. About 5 years ago the veil was lifted and I saw him for how he really was. I saw glimpses of it before then but explained it away and excused him. The last few years I have seen how it really is and I have distanced myself. I thought I had hardened to it and protected myself but the illness seems to have brought what I had buried back to the surface. I’m sure in time, I will get a better handle on my feelings, right now I just feel side swiped and all over the place. I think you are right, I need to give myself time. I have empathy and compassion for him but I need to remember the reality, all bets are not off purely due to illness but my instinct is to be there. The current guidelines however are actually saving me from being sucked in or my time demanded upon as there are of course restrictions in place around hospitals.

I expect appearance is the motivator for being a father/grandfather, that and his W forcing him along the way to do what is needed/expected. Ego stroking resonates strongly.

I’m not sure about M, I would struggle to shrug her off entirely, though any contact is out of obligation on my part or DC asking about her, we are currently very LC and visits are short & sweet. I will keep it that way as anything more isn’t manageable and she is nasty. I just hope her health holds out, this has made me see if anything of that nature were to happen to her there would be no one else step in.

Thank you again so much for your words and understanding, it really means so much. Though I am sorry you are familiar with the dynamic xx

NC for on here now - though I've posted before it was a bit identifying. The last year has been transformational. A big part of that is down to this thread and recognising so many patterns and roles. On the back of advice from here I have been using a therapist who specialises in childhood trauma and DV for the last few months and it has been the best money I've spent. The cost vs the easing of peace of mind when dealing with abandonment and GC issues is a no brainer. For everyone who replied to me - thank you. For everyone who is where I was, there is hope for an easement of mind

I saw glimpses of it before then but explained it away and excused him
I can relate, wrt my father, although he is a polite respectable man his masculine pride is his highest priority, anything which might make him look bad or embarrass him has to be gaslit away.
Bad things that happened to me as a child must be swept under the carpet because it would make him look bad if it got out, my pain and suffering is not a consideration and not his problem.
(but you reap what you sew daddio)
I will keep it that way as anything more isn’t manageable and she is nasty
it sounds as if you feel on top of the situation there?

Glad I have found this thread.

I made a thread last night about the relationship with my mother

As I said on my thread last night I haven’t been the perfect child lately. Mostly because I went off the rails because I thought the people I was with accepted me and it was the first time in my 20 odd years I have felt that way.

I am disabled, and my parents have always hid it from other family members. Not majorly and I know I am very lucky but they have hidden it as a dirty secret or because my mum is ashamed, not because of me. Which may sound entitled- but it is me who has to live with it, deal with affects it etc. I get it is hard to have a disabled child- but I can’t help but feel if they found it that hard why not share the burden? They did the basic minimum for the care I needed to grow- probably because if they didn’t it would of meant social services intervention and I feel like this is the only reason why they did.

It has affected everything. My education (teachers at college confirmed this) and there has been incidents in my life where people haven’t known about it and I’ve nearly injured myself and my parents have laughed about it like it’s no big deal.

I do still live at home. I appreciate bills etc are paid but the lack of privacy is boarding on insanity- trying to access my phone, listening in on phone calls, walking in on me in the shower.

Mum has a drink problem. Doesn’t want to admit it and blames me for it. But if I want to have a cigarette or a packet of crisps to make me feel better I’m the worse person in the world.

There’s just becoming too many things I can’t forgive or I’m just wrong ??

@Mytabbymademedoit that so heartening to hear. I have tried therapy a couple of times but haven’t found the right fit it is so good to hear this, that is wonderful!

@Fl1mflam you reap what you sew is entirely right. That is awful that your pain wasn’t a concern and the keeping up appearances is the highest priority. It’s so hard to relate to that mindset, you should have come first! You should have always been first and been the priority.

The situation with M I feel on top of currently though this is fairly recent. After years of taking her shit I had an enormous blow out when she pushed me too far. I spoke my mind and I didn’t stand for excuses. It didn’t go down well and I’m not proud of it, I had been carrying it for so long and suppressing my own feelings around her and her behaviour that I just couldn’t take any more. She licked her wounds briefly and bit back being nasty again, I think it was her way to take control. Previously I would probably have smoothed it over but this time I just couldn’t so every time she was nasty I would leave and now I visit very sporadically and for brief periods and that seems manageable. I’m still getting past the guilt but I am starting to feel more comfortable in my choice.

@ohbrightlight I am so sorry this is your experience, you are not wrong! It sounds like your parents make your disability about them and how they feel about it. Rather than how they can support you or give you the tools you need to help you to thrive.

Causing potential injury to you basically through keeping things a secret is outrageous. It is all about them and how this makes them feel and not about you which is entirely the wrong focus and they should be supporting you to live the life you would like though they clearly aren’t capable of that. Living at home isn’t free if it comes with the encroachment on your privacy and ability to life a live you want.

Reading the latest posts is so depressing about family abuse. We are all amazing in spotting it, pushing back on it, and healing ourselves no matter how hard it is. Toxic families, I hate them.

I’ve been ok the last few days. I’ve not had to deal with MIL. The end is in sight. I’m a dogged optimist. Thank god!

My mum (illegally) popped round this morning, well, she left some flowers for me on my doorstep, stood 50 metres away near her car for the briefest of hellos and then went off. I felt really cheered up. I thought: yeah, I can cope. Only three weeks to go - one more week with the hag and 14 days of quarantine. We can do this.

Then we had to deal with the witch by phone about her fucking flat and her fucking hospital appointment tomorrow. DP deals with medical stuff, I deal with housing association. He’s got the shortest straw - poor sod. As the Polish say: not my monkeys, not my circus!

She kicks off about the flat. We wanted to keep her in the loop each week and nothing has changed in the plans. The carpet is getting put in on Tuesday, her blinds are in on Friday. Her wanting us to do beck and call with that is very nearly OVER. Then she kicks off about her medical appointment.

She is the NASTIEST person I’ve ever dealt with in my life - even worse than my violent ex. She could argue with her own shadow. And abuse it.

DP put the phone down to ask me something. Rings her back.

Witch: oh, does Monkey have something different to say.

She knows I will stand up to her. She knows I know, and she knows I judge her for what she is. I’m also the person who’s sorted untold stuff out for her over the years. Despite my better judgement.

If she was my mother, I would go LC or NC. Or dump her in a shallow grave. Lol.

During lockdown, DP has had so many revelations about her, even beyond the emotional and physical abuse his family endured. She split one son’s head open with a shoe - not once but twice. He needed casualty both times. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.

How does a ten minute phone conversation ruin a Friday?

I’ve now packed up my laptop, I’m unable to concentrate on work.

Much as I would like something fatal to come up during her check-up tomorrow - no such luck as she’s a cockroach - it would mean being even tougher to get us out of this situation and handing it over to DP’s brother.

DP will be telling her about the plan next weekend with his brother. Then that’s it.

I will be the evil person who’s taken her son away.

She can then sit in her vile hovel on her own, feeling sorry for herself, and blaming other people. As someone very wisely said up this thread: you reap what you sow.

These people have NO sense of their actions having consequences. The world owes them. We are here as servants. We are here to be physically, emotionally or sexually abused. It’s staggering.

Thank you for listening.

I had something thrown out me completely unexpected today. Apparently my father wasn't my bio father.

He was so beautiful and bright I was lucky to know him. I think my mother is lying again but if it is true I'd love to meet any half siblings.

This is quite good [if idealistic]

Monkey, she's so beyond the pale, I wonder what she would say if someone calmly asked her straight why she is abusive to everyone? (very hard of course to stay calm and not react to someone who behaves like a freaking FERAL CAT) I remember my mum saying years ago (as as aside, mind you) something like 'I dont know why I'm so horrible' I think in many ways it just leapt out of her mouth and she never learned to control it. ohbrightlight How are you? Your parents should not treat you this way, you deserve privacy and dignity as we all do. Would it be possible to start taking control in small ways and drawing boundaries?

Apparently my father wasn't my bio father
YIKES that's pretty huge Frownette...are you ok?

@Frownette

I had something thrown out me completely unexpected today. Apparently my father wasn't my bio father.

He was so beautiful and bright I was lucky to know him. I think my mother is lying again but if it is true I'd love to meet any half siblings.

Wow Frownette If you had never suspected that, i guess she is trying to confuse your memory of him. She is jealous of him even though he is dead.

@ohbrightlight you have all of my sympathies. I felt so stifled and controlled living with my parents. If you defend a boundary do they kick off?
You are allowed some privacy even under their roof!!

@Fl1mflam
I’d love to sit her down in front of that informative film. She wouldn’t understand it because Hercule Poirot isn’t it.
The “I don’t know why I’m so horrible”. But it’s there, isn’t it? They know, or at least have an inkling.
The witch has just phoned back. Nice as pie. “Do I bring my medicines to the hospital with me if I’m coming back to yours after?”
DP said we can sort out what’s happening in the morning. She then stropped because she wasn’t getting her own way. I’m going to say no, she cannot come. I have psyched myself for one more full day of it and a couple of hours next Friday. I feel like a HOSTAGE.
@Frownette that is awful. I can’t imagine having that said to me.

Thank you to all who have responded. I think I have found my people

It’s very stressful. My sister is home this weekend which is making it even worse. We don’t get on at all. We are completely different people and I accept that- she doesn’t. It has to be an argument all the time.

The biggest hypocrital thing we are going into lockdown on Tuesday- im not allowed out the door after this but it’s ok for my sister to stay until next Friday when she lives 300 miles away in London, working in a busy office with 200 odd other people. My dad has a heart condition so has sheltered pretty much since the start of the year so I’m not allowed out but she’s allowed to stay? It doesn’t make sense to me.

I feel like I can’t breathe at home. I’m always on edge. If I’m stressed out about something it always has to affect my mum more. For example my period was 3 weeks late- and because she’s my personal fucking stalker she clocked on to it and was making me take pregnany tests everyday despite them all coming back negative, me speaking to my GP and my period coming late occasionally anyway as I do carry extra weight and I think my mental health has a play in it. When my period came it was “think how stressful this has been for me” “I haven’t slept for weeks”. Erm....I didn’t really want to be pregnant either, thanks mum. It would of been me who would of had to have an abortion as well.

Omg, your mum knows when you are due your period 😯
That is awful.

Really need your expert insight to advise on this difficult matter.

I am 2 years NC with my Narc alcoholic DSis after shocking ongoing abuse, malicious emails, lies and defamation. Her final stunt publicly and personally impacted my DDs (late teens). However I encouraged my DDs to maintain and preserve their RS with their cousins DSis x2 DSs also late teens. This has gone relatively well, they meet up regularly on neutral ground, they conceded that their DM was out of order and they don’t talk about her amongst themselves.

However over recent weeks DSis has started to text old family photos to my DDs which they have politely acknowledged. This has since progressed to suggestions of going out with her and her DSs for dinner. I see this as grooming, hoovering and manipulation in order to destabilise, provoke and undermine my NC stance.

My DDs don’t want to meet with their aunt but they don’t want to upset their cousins more.

I would find it hard to tolerate them being back in her company but I don’t think it is appropriate to demand anything of them.

Is my only option to alert DDs to her grooming, remind them of her behaviours and that these will just happen again and suck it up?

Hi Sssloou,
My DDs don’t want to meet with their aunt but they don’t want to upset their cousins more
Will the cousins not be understanding though, you mentioned earlier in your post they recognise that their mother was out of order?
Probably doesn't solve the underlying problem though that your sister will always have the impulse to push for what she wants, she sounds very domineering🙄apart from anything else is just freaking annoying, makes life difficult for everyone 🧐

The cousins are v dominated and damaged by their alcoholic Narc DM - still under her control - and no one wants to rock the boat to trigger her rage. I suspect that they want the NC over - it’s water under the bridge after 2 years etc - which is a long time for young people - but not long enough for us who have experienced this behaviour for decades.

So tricky because she will always want to use this as a bridge to get to you☹️
She's moving them around like pieces in a board game to try and trap you
can you tell her yourself that the answer from you is a big fat NO and then you can be the bad guy?

@Fl1mflam wow thanks - I actually discussed that analogy earlier today - like a chess game - claiming my DDs as pawns and boxing me in. Telling her to back off directly is against my NC rules and gives her the reaction which she was her aim to provoke. Also I would then be labelled controlling by her of my adult DDs. I also don’t want to interfere with their decisions or unsettle the cousins. Frustrating.

Latest Jerry Wise video I love this guy. I've seen a lot listening to his clips. I'm listening to this one for the third time. It's like he's talking about my family. They have never owned any of their own stuff because they were busy talking about all of the faults they projected on to me.

I don’t know if this is the one and only time to break the NC rules - like you say I take the hit as being the bad guy - maybe it’s the same as people who are NC with parents but their DCs are involved with the grandparents or in similar situations with abusive xH.