But we took you to Stately Homes - May 2020 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's May 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
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January 2010
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March 2011
November 2011
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May-August 2019
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November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I only see her every second week 60 per session, every week would be a bit more money than i could spare.

Just going back to some comments on the last page. It is not being ‘a bitch’ to have boundaries and protect yourself. You’ve been schooled to think that by someone for whom it was very useful.

The best behaviour is to do nothing, you’re not punishing them for what they’ve done, you’re withdrawing yourself from their realm.

Do they EVER have a moment of lucidity 😥
I understand all of these patterns of behavior, but i still yearn for my mother to just grasp that she is angry with me because i didnt hide that she hurt me!. She has ceased all communication with me, but blames me for the rift.
She honestly feels like she has "endured so much".

The level of delusion that must be required in order to feel the aggreived martyr in this situation must be so extreme.

@Fanthorpe that is my "plan" for now. Continue to do nothing. I was always the one who cracked and went back to them with an appeal to end the no communications (to punish me for pointing out they hurt me/eroded a boundary/had no right to tell me what to do). But this time I will not do that.

It is feeling hard right now. It has been 4 months+ since my mum communicated with me. Nothing since i told her she hurt me. Nothing. Except my Dad coming over to tell me off for "hurting Mum".

I never wanted this but im not walking back in to it for more of it.
My parents are 70 something and somebody on another thread was telling me her 90 year old parents were still tormenting her!!

So i am doing NOTHING.

Tormented by 90 year olds 😱
Get out now while you still can 😱

Your dad is again acting as her enabler WiserOlder which is what he has been doing all along. He is also her secondary abuser and he certainly cannot be at all relied upon either. He will also continue to throw you under the bus at any and all opportunity, he is truly a weak bystander of a man.

Women like your mother cannot do relationships so the men in their lives are either as narcissistic as they are or are otherwise discarded.

You are wise indeed not to engage with either of them. Doing so is a response and that is what they want; to such people its their reward. Drop the rope they keep on holding out to you.

I have dropped the rope. Like it was on fire.
But I wonder at what point they will realise,hmm, she is not coming back to heel. I cant help being curious or anxious about what will happen next.

The poster who told me her 90 year old parents were still "guilting" her made me feel better actually. Worse for her obviously! She has all of my sympathy, but I thought, right, i was right to draw this line. My parents are non smoking one glass of wine per week pescatarian wiry -walking 76 year olds who i can envisage living to 90

@Heffalooomia

Tormented by 90 year olds 😱 Get out now while you still can 😱

I know! It was a chilling thing to read! I feel badly for that poster but no way can that be me! I HAVE TO BE FREE Either because i have stopped caring or because they are dead..

people become more blinkered and focused on their own needs as they age, you may feel as if you can trust them to be reasonable but they are far from objective, they will lean on you and not notice or care that you are about to fall over.
In many way's it's not their fault, but it isnt your's either, so run now, retreat to a safe distance and stay there.
Forget about inheritance, no money will be enough to compensate you.

I agree. Im 50 now. And Im not feeling old. I went through a lot (all caused by low self esteem and having no sense of myself of course ) but Im feeling optimistic about my future, my job, my ability to be brave enough to get a lot out of life. Im single but I don't feel bad about that at all. Feel like I have a lot to look forward to. I've done a lot of work to get to this place. 13 years of devouring self help books (so called. I like that genre. A lot of them were excellent). So I am fekking well not going to blight the next few decades on this hamster wheel where my parents hurt me, i verbalise that, they get angry, i feel the uncertainty and the tension of that conflict, i let it go, eventually, rinse repeat ad infinitum until i die from stress a decade before them!!! 🙈😭

The hamster wheel is not spinning ANY more.

I was thinking about inheritance. I know they will change their will if I dont come back to heel. Let them. This isn't about money. They did not buy the right to hurt me.

Oh, narcissism reaches far.

So, going to include my mum in our bubble - 75, very social (but not being social day to day and very responsible), very “the rules”, supports all the vulnerable people in her village (socially distanced, natch) and not changing her very strict rules on how to do things.

Not seen her kids since FEBRUARY.

Meanwhile, my point of maternal reference has been Toxic c**t mother in law. Yeh.

The deal is, as discussed with partner and mum tonight on phone (after agreed about my mum’s safety with my brothers), is sorted.

We see my mum, we see the hag, my mum does shit for the hag (at arms length),

We don’t tell the hag this extension is happening because DP/idiot worries that disabled brother will be lent on - SO WE DON’T TELL THE HAG.

And, of course, brother will be lent on IF YOU (DP) LET THAT HAPPEN OR HE (BROTHER) LETS THAT HAPPEN..

I feel my joy has been ripped out of me - not seen my mum since Feb, brothers live in other country/Nottingham - as MANIPULATED AS FUCK DP is sat there worried about his toxic vile mother being protected. I do not give a fuck, anymore.

She is the ONLY thing we argue about.

Sorry, but my mum has sorted a ton of shit out for his hag (medical stuff, shopping, rings her every week, decorating) AND she even paid for his MA (his mother couldn’t even support - mentally - his first degree as a mature student (got a first) (why are you doing this, aren’t you happy where you are, there are no jobs la la la)

My mum and I are rescuers, he and his brothers are victims/fuckwits and she’s a totally self-obsessed bitch.

Sorry, I am so angry. This is her psychological control by proxy.

Partner has just said - you’re free to go to your mum’s*- (not said In anger - just ineptitude..oh and inherited guilt)

*“THAT’S NOT THE FUCKING POINT. It’s US. You miss my mum, you miss my mum.” He wanted it. When the chips are down, he’s scared. FFS. He’s 52.

**TBF, he has limited ability to talk about things because of the way he was brought up.

AND...GIN..BREATHE.

@WiserOlder The inheritance. Please, please, please, please do not let them use that.

I have probably lost out on a huge amount of money by going NC with my mother. It was probably never going to come to me anyway as they'd have always made some excuse why I shouldn't get a penny.

But although it can be extremely hard the freedom you will have for the next years, the freedom you have to live your life how YOU want, it is worth more than a single penny they can ever give you.

Also @WiserOlder and anyone else on this thread. If you can bear to watch Mrs Lowry on Netflix.

Age does not wither them.

@yellowlemon

Mrs Lowry. Wasn’t it horrific?

I was invited to the premiere, I walked out of the premiere.

Had to go to the pub to recover.

@MonkeyfromManchester Yes - horrific indeed

I've spoken to a couple of people about it who said it was just a batty old woman and a weekass son.

I think every single person on this thread would understand what it was really about.

Hard to watch but one of the best depictions of a narcissistic parent I've ever seen.

I did sit gulping gin in the pub, but I did eventuality watch it at home.

It is horrid and the best depiction ever.

Joke alert. If you are interested, I’m raising money for a feature film and if you have any casting ideas, do let me know..

@MonkeyfromManchester You don't paint for yourself you paint for me!

Re your casting - I starred in 24 hour party people if that helps. But srsly I know a casting director too

@MonkeyfromManchester I think the worst bit for me is when Timothy Spall thinks he's getting somewhere and thinks he's beginning to bond and he's so happy and then his mother just destroys all that hope.

It was only when I came on this thread that I understood why narcissistic parents give you that tiny bit of rope, knowing that you will hang yourself later.

@yellowlemon

Also *@WiserOlder* and anyone else on this thread. If you can bear to watch Mrs Lowry on Netflix.

Age does not wither them.

I will. I'll need wine and carbs for that but I"ll watch it.

@WiserOlder I stumbled on it by accident not having a clue what it was about. It took me about 6 hours to watch as I kept rewinding bits going "no way".

And yes I had wine and carbs. We will be here to book club it afterwards if you need. Because she certainly isn't just a batty old woman.

@yellowlemon
We’re in the money. Hollywood!
That film chilled me to the BONE.

@WiserOlder
Buy the best gin, get the best crisps. I love Vanessa Redgrave (Mrs Lowry) but I wanted to kick the new Sony Bravia* telly across the room.

*Toxic Mither In Law judges us (me) for “posh” telly.

@yellowlemon

Fantasy feature film of all our fave family narcissists! They’d love it!

@MonkeyfromManchester I did actually wonder what would happen if I sent my mother the link and told her to watch it.

But I just think it would reinforce her position of being good and proper.

Utterly pointless in other words.