But we took you to Stately Homes - May 2020 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's May 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
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April 2010
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March 2011
November 2011
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May-August 2019
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November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I will try and keep this short so it's not a long read.
My DF was emotionally and physically abusive during my childhood, and my DM did nothing to stop him.
Eventually DF left us when I was 17 (which was a relief). I have realised DM has been quiet toxic to me but I have always forgiven her because she was essentially the only okay ish parent I had.
For some context, I'm from a very strict cultural background...and I have "had a child out of wedlock", and I've bought a house with my DP and we live together "unmarried"
I have never really followed the "cultural expectations" so I am certainly not a favourite in my family.

She will spend weeks being nice to me and then be really mean and the next week start being nice again. It's really confusing so I'll give an example and hope I don't out myself.

• DM arranged a family photoshoot which myself, DP and DC went to pre lock down.
• DM collected prints a few weeks ago (the studio had been closed before). DM's brother went with her to the studio as she doesn't drive and the prints are quiet large.
• DM calls me and accuses me of speaking negatively about her to her brother (which I deny because it literally didn't happen). She specifically says that her brother has told her that I said she's wasting her money on purchasing these expensive photos.
• even after I tell DM that I didn't say this and how she spends her money is of no business of mine, DM insists I must have said that, and "it's okay because we've been through worse and we will get through it and she loves me still"

There's been so many other incidents. One of which I went on holiday with her and my DS last August to the country we originate from. During the holiday she was so nasty, I ended up literally walking out of the family home with only my hand bag and DS, and trying to find a hotel to stay in for the last few days. This was obviously distressing for my DS and I tried to be strong for him. Luckily my DP was able to find a hotel and rang them to send me a taxi also as I literally didn't know where I was.
DM and her family insist I was in the wrong for walking out despite her behaviour.

I just feel like absolutely no one understands how awful it is to have this kind of relationship with her. My DB is golden child, so he doesn't get any of this from her. The rest of my family prioritise the "culture" over anything. My DP has lovely parents who we see nearly weekly, so this is all confusing to him also. DP is supportive of me but I don't think he actually knows what to do or say, at the moment his had enough of her behaviour and thinks I need to go NC.

So I just wanted some advise on:

• how do I get therapy? When I've tried to get therapy for my low mood and anxiety through my GP. I have only had CBT sessions which don't really help the deeper stuff in how I've even ended up this way emotionally.

It's like 8-10 sessions, and I think I need to work through all this.

• have you gone low contact or no contact with your DM? How did you do this? Practical advise would be really helpful please as I don't know how to do this. It's really hard cos sometimes she's really nice.

hi again Bonnie 🙂
Lots of us on here have similar mother's... we get you.
I'm not too clued up on the therapy situation but others will be, I just wanted to pick up on this,
She will spend weeks being nice to me and then be really mean and the next week start being nice again
This sounds like the 'hoovering' technique often employed by narcissistic/dysfunctional /toxic types
if you Google something like 'narcissistic hoover technique' you should find some reading material and recognise the pattern, it's a way of keeping you controlled, build you up and knock you down, or to put it another way she has to be nice to you at times so that she can draw you in and get you to come back for more punishment.

@bonnieBrown
Your DM sounds very passive aggressive.
Do you think that it's counselling you need or do you think you need to take some control if this by going low contact? This might help as it sounds toxic.
Also I did wonder whether your abusive DF wasn't challenged because you were the barrier between your DF & DM,- if you hadn't been there she might have known that she would be getting this treatment. Just a thought.
Left you feeling very unprotected as a child. I would say you have to put you first. I'm very pleased that you have a supportive DP!

@Heffalooomia

I do think that describes exactly what her behaviour is. It's terrible and no one else seems to see this. She's great at keeping up appearances.

@Strangeways19

I do need some sort of therapy I think because there's a lot of childhood trauma that just lingers in the back of my mind.
My DF was emotionally abusive to her also at times and I did witness it, but she had a choice in staying with him...and I had no choice.
They'd often threaten that if I called the child line ss would take me away and that stopped me from seeking help.
I only remember DM stopping DF hitting me once (he was kicking and punching me) until I had urinated on their bedroom floor. DM kept me from school the next day as she had also shaved all my hair off, so I was bald.
I was 14....my crime? I'd had sex with my BF.

I do need to also go LC with her and hopefully lead this up to NC. I'm already not ringing her and not visiting. But she rings me at-least once a week.
I've been ignoring the phone calls and ringing back 4 hours later.

It's hard though because I wish I could have a "normal" relationship with her. I've tried to forgive her for the past and move on from it, but she now just wants control. If she gives me "advise" she will go on and on and on about it Cos she's desperate for me to follow it.
I'm pregnant right now and it's been causing me a lot of stress and some tears. Feel like DP is constantly having to pick up the pieces after she's done putting me through the ringer. Last time she made me cry on the phone (because of her accusations), her worry was what DP would think if I carried on crying on the phone to her

@BonnieBrown

Your family is dysfunctional and I think it’s clear that you need to remove them from your life as much as possible, if not completely. Read the recommended books and websites at the beginning of the thread, especially the Out of The Fog site, it’s very helpful in its descriptions of the relationships and mindsets.

The therapy would certainly be a way forward for you personally. CBT is often used because it is a cheap and quick option so is more widely availed from the NHS, but it helps a fairly limited set of problems based on behaviours.

You may have to find someone yourself, have a look for someone in your area on the BACP website, you should have a chat with them first, find someone you can work with. Your focus is building yourself into someone with boundaries, with a strong sense of self, not repairing a relationship with your family.
Good luck.

Hi all, I've been reading these threads for a year or two now. You all are so strong.

I have a really difficult relationship with my mum and tbh I'm a bit lost as to what to do or even what I want. Growing up I thought I had a good relationship with my mum we were friends but since having my own children it's been incredibly difficult.

I don't even know where to start or what matters. We lived in pubs until I was ten moving every two years or so to a different area. My parents worked every night until the early hours and left myself and db alone. We moved to a house and they got a working mans club where my dad would work again all hours and mum mum sometimes but she used to go out every evening. Both parents would get drunk most nights. I would get myself up and ready for school and get there by myself from about six, at ten I used to get two buses to school and back.

My parents eventually split when I was 17 and my died tried to overdose. My mum says that I had said I don't know how she could stay with my dad and that is why they split. I think I did say this but I was teenager and everyone knew the details locally, I was embarrassed. They had both had affairs, my mum had introduced to me to the man when I was 13 but told me to keep it secret. My dad passed away six years ago. My mum remarried, we had a big argument over my ds and I have nothing to do with her husband likewise he doesn't want to have anything to do with my family unit either.

My mum says that this is breaking her and I'm going to send her to an early grave. She doesn't acknowledge any of the things that happened in my childhood (more than I've posted) and truly believes that I had a good childhood.

My brother has limited contact with her, only when needed with her for keeping the peace or if he needs something (she gives him financial help). He left home when he was 17.

I'm happily married, my husband is no longer shocked by some of the things that goes on (my mum has told me once she had cancer when she didn't). My eldest son is a teenager and I think it's taken me that long to fully realise the impact of childhood. I long for a good relationship with my mum but I don't think we could ever have a real one. We do have one but I'm not sure what it is. We do talk a lot, probably see each other once or twice a month. If we don't talk she thinks I don't love her and questions it but I can never disagree with her, she always had to be right.

My youngest child has complex needs and she gives us occasional (twice a year maybe) babysitting but that us really the only break we get at night. I have tried going non contact a couple of times after arguments/ incidents where I stood my ground (one was where I said I didn't want her to visit as dc was upset and she didn't understand how she could make the situation worse, I just wanted a break and for nothing else to be added to the situation). The rest of the family became involved and my gran stopped talking to me for a time due to my mum being so upset.

I'm in a strange mind that I recognise the behaviour and that things are unhealthy but i still feel like I need to make it better. The fallout in the family will be terrible and I know I'll be the one to take the blame.

How do you know what to do or what is best? I don't want to give up on my family but I also have so many issues with them. It's just draining.

Sorry for the long post.

They'd often threaten that if I called the child line ss would take me away and that stopped me from seeking help
This is appalling, what they are saying is that they know that you have reason to call ChildLine i.e. that you are in abusive situation, but that you are trapped and no one will help you.
Obviously it's difficult for a child to unpack or process this properly so you're left with a feeling that you are at the mercy of your parents and there's nothing you can do to protect yourself.
It's never stated overtly, it's implied, like the mafia ☹️

I don't want to give up on my family but I have so many issues with them, it's just draining
Hi Willbob, I think your mother will never be able to give you what you need and want from her, I think she will always be childlike and dysfunctional.
Can you distance yourself and work on having strong boundaries?
Ultimately do you think your life would be better if you cut them out?

@BonnieBrown well it sounds like you need to remove yourself from your family. You're describing appalling abuse & frankly they don't deserve you on their lives. On the other hand you deserve to heal yourself. The only way is NC but I can appreciate this is going to be hard. Shop around for a good therapist before you commit too. Don't bother with CBT you want trauma therapy. X

@Willbob
You are describing the 'drama triangle'. Have a look at it.
I agree with poster that says that your mum is perhaps too immature to be in an adult healthy relationship with you. And it sounds like your childhood was neglectful & emotionally abusive- your DM confiding in you about her bf - this is too much for a child to take on.

Im the same, giving up on my family seems so dramatic. Like not the sort of carry on our family would stoop to.
But Im changing.
For the first time lately i am feeling "who is this paranoid sensitive shouting daughter they want to bring back to heel?'"
I have tried so hard and so many times and they cannot change their perceptions at all.
This crazy woman they claim to love. They created hher.
I am a different person and they hate her.

@BonnieBrown - sounds like you need psychotherapy, it really helped me. Try a few therapists until you meet one you really click with.

Sorry so many people still need this thread, I’m sorry your family aren’t the loving supportive people you deserve,

My step-dad called my husband today. They had a conversation which just reaffirmed exactly what we suspected. I think it’s really helped my husband realise thar none of them care about me, it’s all about bringing me back into line to do what I am told.

Fed up of having to go round and round in circles.

But birthday season is over and now there is nothing in until Christmas.., hoping for a bit of peace - unlikely 🤦‍♀️

My effing mother in law abused my partner physically and emotionally all through his childhood. She is now 83 and as she was ill after Xmas (we suspect Covid), she stayed in our tiny home for five weeks. It was agony: she slept in our room, I had the spare room’s futon and the DP had the sofa bed. She was relentless in her complaining.

Now she is here as work is being done on her housing association flat. She arrived last Tuesday and I’ve now insisted she goes home. She can be here watching effing Heartbeat on the telly during work but not stay overnight. I can’t do it after nine nights of it. I absolutely cannot abide her rudeness and abuse of her two sons. I’m quite hot tempered and she absolutely knows how to press my buttons but I won’t have someone abuse my partner or speak to his brother in such a way so I’ve lost it a few times during the past week. She’s the archetypal martyr. Any clues on dealing with her. I’m stuck in a support bubble with her and will swop over to my mum as soon as I can. My partner backs me up, but I don’t understand why he doesn’t just walk away like another brother did. I’m now in my room and she’s sat on the sofa watching shit telly like a parasite.

Monkey this sounds excruciating:(
what are the options for getting her out?
Wrt your partner, some people seem unable to break the feeling of loyalty even in the face of abuse, maybe some sort of trauma bond thing, he's kind of triggered back to being a frozen child unable to act?

hoping for a bit of peace - unlikely
it can be done, it takes work but you can make it to a better place:) Christmas

@Heffaloomia I think he’s a peacemaker and youngest in the family. He’s so kind and caring. She is so angling to stay here. Cushy life - nice house whilst her house is a slum. Ripped sofa and carpets which she COULD afford to replace. We got her settled back in her flat after her illness and it was excruciating to sit in the slum with the social workers looking at the state of it. There is NO need to live like that. She has savings and a good pension. We don’t need anything left to us in her will (which is what she’s always saying - power trip)

She just takes the piss - even my mum (kindness personified) remarks on her appalling behaviour. She’s good at the guilt trip but I think I’m going to forget about the open invitation to my family home for Christmas. She makes it hell on Earth by doing a whole drama of “nothing to wear” or “your mum has too much to do”. I’ll probably relent and let her come for the day but I can’t do days of her staying there. I have never known anyone like this.

She has made her elder son her de facto Carer. He has had no life since the age of 17, she demands to be taken to the supermarket three times a week and would go round to his house at 6.15am to “clean” waking him up (he has a disability and poor health). She let feral cats in - fleas and shit everywhere. She’s made it impossible for him to have relationships. She’s now in our bubble (joy) so he’s now dating someone (or, at least, going out for drinks and meals) which she’s furious about (makes me smile). What kind of mother denies your child - now aged 60 - some kind of life?

When I met DP, I could see that she had exactly the same intentions for him but I stopped that and he became much more independent from her. He’s a wonderful man and I’m really proud of him being tough. She’s a fecking nightmare. When I write this all down, it’s horrific and it’s emotional abuse by a narcissist.

I’ve just come to this thread. I need to read it properly but am in awe at such strong people who are facing down difficult parent situations and taking back control.

Could I ask if anyone has experience of the ‘you made me ill/caused my heart attack/brought on my stroke’ behaviour when you speak out of turn or refuse to bow to their behaviours? I just don’t know how to respond to this sort of comment...

Morning! Thoughts keeping me awake and I've not been here in a while so thought I'd try catching up.

@LostAndWandering - our parents do not have the right to see our children. It is a privilege they earn and it's only since being nc with my parents that I have felt more free of their judgement and confident in my ability as a parent, to know my children and what is right for them.

@MonkeyfromManchester - your dp doesn't withdraw completely due to FOG - fear obligation guilt. It is hard to untangle oneself from it and realise you can be a person independent of what another, especially a parent, thinks you should be. More so if the behaviour has been experienced for a whole lifetime. Don't feel obliged to host her for Xmas if your dp really doesn't want to. Our first Xmas as just our family was so utterly freeing that it mostly stayed that way. As a child I remember too well the routine my parents were in of one Xmas with Maternal grandparents and the other with paternal grandmother. There were some where we stayed home but certainly not while we were younger.

@Christmas1935 - I have had a prolonged period of nc with my parents. I made an attempt at the start of lockdown which was rebuffed firmly by mother. Not so much by father. But in these last few years I have grown and become stronger in my self belief. So I am more able to stand up for myself and our dc now. It helps that dh is firmly on my side even though I have at times behaved quite badly and he could easily have done as my parents suggested. But he did not. The support of your dp is so valuable.

I had a cuppa with father this week. First time I've seen him since mother's funeral. As expected, much blame is being laid on her shoulders. But dh and I have discussed this at length over these weeks - months now - and have agreed to take tentative steps towards reconciliation. We have both said if things don't go well we can withdraw again. First steps are him and I catching up some more before reintroducing our eldest.

Thankfully at present his own recent experience of my sister makes it unlikely that he will push us to reconcile - that will be down to she and I if that ever happens. It's a very, very long way off.

He has given me a piece with some of mother's ashes. I don't know how I feel. I am still angry that she died without acknowledging my hurt. But I cannot change that. I have made it clear to father that what he thinks are the driving factors in our rift were, for me, a much smaller part and that it was more their refusal to acknowledge that my feelings are valid even if they don't agree with them. But a trinket for me doesn't suddenly beatify her. She is still the person she chose to be right to the end. She chose to push me back when I tried to build a bridge. But maybe I should try and hold on to some positive memories. I just don't know.

@minisoksmakehardwork
Exactly that! He was in a very Fog-gy place went we met. I think 15 years of our being together and seeing my family operate normally has made him feel less scared of her. The obligation is there but less of the guilt.

I think I’ve got the guilt - I was brought up to do the “decent thing”. She’s going this evening and I’m wrestling this morning with “do I let her stay for one more night?”. I’m not. But this is how it goes, she provokes a row (yesterday was horrible), then she sulks creating a toxic atmosphere and then I feel better by doing the “decent thing”. She is utterly vile.

I have bipolar and this has been a tough nine months: five weeks of her being ill here, Covid (so hard for everyone) and now this building work. Not once has she asked about my health or said: I’m sorry you’re not seeing your family. It is all about her. 84 years of bitterness and blame.

Sad, really, but hell to be around. I’m just about to enter the fray downstairs...coffee calls. Could grab a G&T...

I'm on the verge of getting restraining order, they won't leave me alone.

I had another weird letter through yesterday and it seriously disrupts me. I'm not happy that they know new address and can't go on the electoral roll.

It's like I'm expected to indulge any violence or abuse and I have no right to be myself. I'm expected to be something like a playtoy to rattle around and throw, and be passive. I might update police today.

you made me ill/cause my heart attack
@Canigotosleepyet
There are a variety of possible responses, for instance 'no I didn't', 'explain exactly how that works' etc, but to get to that place you have to be able to not be 'triggered' by the accusation because once that happens you are riled and it's very hard to stay calm.
@MonkeyfromManchester, How is project 'get rid of mother-in-law' going?
@Frownette, sounds like your gut instinct is to take action? You absolutely have the right to protect yourself and not engage with people who are detrimental to your well-being. You must do this do you must look after number one.

@Heffalooomia Project Go The Fuck Home is this evening. She is not happy. She has been staring out of the window like some bereft orphan. She was nice as pie to my partner and when he started making my morning coffee, she started to whine about everything. I came down to WW3. Basic jealousy and spite.

He wanted a shower and she kicked off about having to wait for her cooked breakfast.

She spoke to the other son as she does TWICE a day - and woe betide him if he doesn’t phone her. She kicked off at him. I went downstairs to grab some painkillers (stress induced headache) and she was bitching about me. No changing the subject so I had to listen to her spleen. Apparently, we don’t help her (hmmmm), I’m accusing her of wanting to stay here (yep, guilty as charged) and we don’t understand her (no, we don’t). Then it was “I’m going to die soon” (no words) and “I won’t have a funeral”. Well, that occasion isn’t likely to be standing room only as she has alienated everyone. Her line is “no one phones me” so effing ring them yourself. Total nasty narcissist.

I have never been so close to phoning my GP for anxiety meds. We have kindly said that she can come here during the day in the last few days of building work - thankfully, the days don’t run together - and she can sit on the effing sofa sulking and watching Heartbeat at top volume and meals cooked for her. We work from home so can ignore her. I don’t go to downstairs that often.

She has always been like this, it’s not an old age thing.

Jesus, the latest is that she’ll go to the more abused son - tiny terraced house with very steep stairs - and sleep on his settee. Cue feral cats, fleas and shit. Off the scale.

I have to help her choose blinds to replace the WALLPAPER that’s up at her windows for years. Then that’s it. She won’t kick off in front of the tradesmen. It’s all directed at her family. So, she KNOWS what she’s doing.

She’s actually proud of the way she behaves. I spoke to my mum on Sunday. “I bet she told me off about moaning”. “Yes, she did actually. She said how kind we are to support her, there’s plenty of people worse off, your children and d-I-l do loads for you. So, pull your socks up”. My mum has this blue eyed scary stare so it’s a good job she wasn’t here (I wish - not seen her since Feb) and it’s marvellous. Meanwhile, my mum (75) looks after the “elderly” and disabled people in her village. 😹

Thanks @Heffalooomia.

It's reassuring in a way to know that other people know what it's like.

My mother said yesterday that she keeps calling me despite me telling her not to because she loves me. I angrily said no you don't, you're a narcissist and think of me as a possession.

I don't think you can ever get through to some people. Love directly contradicts the nasty letter she sent and she isn't respecting my wishes.

In all communication with narcissists always bear in mind that you can choose whether or not you respond. The words they use are designed to inspire a response, it’s important that you recognise that you don’t have to give one.

The tactic of ‘bait and switch’ is common; they will say something outrageous which you try to defend, they will then say something else which makes you think ‘what? Where did that come from?’so you’re left confused.

Changing facts and altering points of view will happen frequently so you’re trying to defend yourself in multiple fronts, you often find yourself accepting a lie just to keep the peace, or move on from the drama.

Manipulation, control and keeping themselves as the main focus is the aim, keeping you confused and compliant their method.

The blandest non-committal response if you must, but not engaging at all is best. Protect yourself, don’t engage. There’s nothing in it for you and everything in it for them.

@Fanthorpe my god, this is it. This is the way she communicates.

I used to think it’s age but the more DP talks about his childhood we realise it’s been a lifelong thing. This forum is amazing. I’ve toughened up from talking here. And learnt tons.

So, toxic mil went home Thursday night. She came back Friday morning whilst house alterations are done. I came downstairs and her overnight bag was here. WTAF. Apparently, she needed an overnight bag (with her pyjamas and toothbrush etc) to carry her medication. She was as nice as pie in the morning and started to get angrier and angrier throughout the day when she realised we weren’t going to host her overnight. Or, quite frankly, EVER. I don’t get how someone can’t have self-awareness about their horrible abuse and behaviour has consequences,