But we took you to Stately Homes - May 2020 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's May 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
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April 2010
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March 2011
November 2011
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May-August 2019
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November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I am so pleased to have found the Stately Homes threads having read about them elsewhere on Mumsnet when I I first posted my story on the back of another poster's thread. Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat for this thread.

I went NC with my mother approximately 10 years ago - after one nasty incident too many, which was my final cut off point. In hindsight I wished I had done it sooner, but, like so many people have said on other threads, it really is difficult to acknowledge that your own mother is actually not a very nice person.

When my mother's nastiness started to spill over towards her only two grandchildren, (my children), I knew that enough was finally enough.

My older sibling was always the golden child. I was the (literal) punchbag of both of them. My father died when I was younger.

I “justified” my going NC with her from a moral perspective as my sibling was sole beneficiary under my mother’s will (because I refused to name one of my daughters after her!!) and had taken all the important documentation from her property when she started to show signs of dementia. I didn’t merely abandon my mother and did all the right things to ensure she ended up with the appropriate care etc. It was my brother who finally ceased contact with me, despite me trying to maintain a relationship of sorts. In time he too stopped visiting my mother in her care home. He was next of kin for their purposes.

And so, a couple of weeks ago, I received a phone call from my uncle that I knew I would receive one day - my mother had passed away in her sleep. His was the only number the care home had, as the number my brother had given to the care home was no longer in use and hadn’t been for many years.

This gave me closure - as had my uncle not had my number I would never have received this news. But the old wounds have re-opened and I’m angry that I cannot properly grieve a mother who loved me. I’m angry and upset because I didn’t have what others had, and what I’m, hopefully, giving my children - total unconditional love.

It was the funeral last week, in my home town. I didn't attend. To be fair my brother stepped up to the mark and did arrange everything, but he's pragmatic and acknowledged that "somebody" had to do it". An assortment of relatives did attend - graveside burial - and my brother was able to tell them I couldn't attend as I am actually subject to a local lockdown where I live (a bonus from Covid!!). The relatives who did attend know her history, they know her character, but I guess they attended out of a sense of duty/respect. And that's fine. How do I feel? Right now very angry because I'm grieving what I didn't have but ought to have had. Angry that I couldn't be part of the gathering that morning but it wouldn't have been right. I actually feel that by keeping away I've given my mum what she wanted - she made no secret of the fact she favoured my brother so in death she got her wish. I wouldn't wish this on anyone by the way, it's just awful. Oh, I wrote the eulogy (factual about her life, no gushing sentiment or fond recollections) and sent it to the Celebrant - everyone said how wonderful it was...... Obviously there couldn’t be a gathering after the graveside burial as is usual, so again Covid helped there!!

These boards are so supportive, and help me immensely. Whilst I find myself in a very sad situation I now realise that I'm not the only one and as bizarre as that sounds, that really does help. Thank you everyone

@MintyChapstick

Redstar Ive tried and she takes huge offence and gets huffy and sulky.

I do genuinely love walking and could go for miles but she will only go so far before moaning about sore legs, back etc. She will make over exagerated huffing and heavy breahting sounds to make out she's utterly exhausted when we've not even gone that far!

The other week we were in a local beauty spot where there are some wooden steps. I knew she'd struggle as they are pretty steep and have no railing, but she insisted on climbing them. Well she got half way up and started making weird grunting sounds and of course I had to help her nearly sliding down the bank in the process. Had she fallen and injured herself we'd never have heard the end of it, so I had no choice really.

This is an ongoing pattern of behaviour. She's always struggled with DB and I being independent and desperately tries to cling on to us.

Hi there! I feel for you. Bless. I've been suffering with issues with my mum for so many years. sounds similar in that your mum seems quite selfish.

Hi all,
I have been on a different thread recently to talk about this but was directed here as this is more of a relevant space. I'm I hoping that I can get many opinions about my current situation.

It's not going to be possible to explain everything. I may need to answer questions to give more clarity. However, to start I will keep it focused on the present here and now. The past is playing a huge part in how I feel right now, however I can't change the past. I can't control my future but can help my future and change my responses and how I allow myself to view things.

My weakness (which is also a strength) is I have a big heart and feel very guilty if I am upsetting anyone ever.

So I'm 40+ and I have children in tweens and also married.

The problem is my mother. We have had a. Rey tense rocky relationship and growing up she was very controlling but also the opposite of that was she wasn't the mother figure that I needed. She would often ignore me. Would tell me what to do. Would never ask how I was.
She would shout all the time. I would tip toe around her. She hurt herself quite badly and blamed me for her accident in my late teens - she said I had been a nightmare since I was 10years old. I always got told this. I did have moments growing up where I gave in and just tried my hardest to be happy with her. I felt I just could never leave her. I finally married and got out of the family home! It was a relief. But she still was treating me like a child. Oh the arguments. Over anything she felt was not her way. Even in front of my husband. Then the lack of support through so many big milestones - like pregnancy and moving home. When she was there she was very in my business. I would try to stay away but she would somehow make me feel bad. There were so many times when I was given the silent treatment by her - no communication and also left guessing. I didn't mind those times. Although I wasn't the initiator I was glad for peace of mind.

Anyway, I do tell her a lot. Why? Because she's my mum and I guess I always hope for a better relationship. I know I'm mad.

Recently she has been saying a few things in a fed up tone about me to my kids when I am not there. Cut a long story short we had a great day at the weekend but when my eldest told me that nan had said something in a fed up tone I thought the next day I would mention it to her.

I started the conversation by saying please just hear me out and don't get upset. Within 60seconds she was going mad. I actually couldn't believe that my simple request asking her to check her tone and things she says was taken as my kids were against her and that I had no right. We come from a minority ethnic background where parents should only be respected and never questioned. However my mum has had a divorce and never played this motherly type of role. My brother got involved and started having a good go at me too. Saying that I had kept them away from the grandchildren! This is absurd. By no means true. The amount of times I get told she is tired or too busy - AND her husband always books trips away as soon as the kids are on holiday. It's so frustrating. I was so hurt by my brother. He has no choice but to take her side I guess - after all he lives with her. He himself has had so many issues with her and I have always helped him out and made her see sense. But he did the opposite. I feel betrayed by that but worse that he thinks I have kept him from seeing his nieces. The amount of time he never comes to my home. Or is never there when we visit my mums - even when the kids stay over at my mums they say he was too busy.
So it's all lies.

I'm so fed up of this toxic situation. I fed up of always having to do as my mum wants. She even likes to invite herself to outings and even our holidays. In fact we have gone on holidays and she has tried to come along at the end. Once she never spoke to me for nearly 8 weeks when we returned from holiday because she couldn't come.

Help me! I don't know how to fix this in my mind.
I lost a whole nights sleep.

@theprincessmittens Hi - the Guardian have a problem page which is open to comments and there have been quite a few recently about narcissistic parents from adults trying to deal with the mess they have made.

So many of the comments are basically "but your mother loved you" (rarely "but your father loved you" funnily enough) - people with normal parents just don't seem to comprehend that mothers can be rubbish.

The paradox is that of course there is this massive pressure put on women to be perfect mothers (as dictated to by society), and yet when they're not from their children's point of view it must be the child who has got it all wrong, Very, very odd.

Your story about moving resonated with me.

A few days ago I happened to mention to a friend that we had moved as a family when I was 9. (Completely on a whim, the nature of his job meant that it didn't' matter where my father lived for work, and over 50 miles away so it really was a new life for a little girl. I was taken out half way through a term of my first year of middle school and had made a lots of nice friends - I still remember them very well.)

When I mentioned to my friend, and it really was only in passing, that our family had moved at that age, he was completely shocked and asked whether it would have occurred to my parents what the impact the upheaval would have had on my life at such a crucial stage.

I was kind of shocked that he was shocked as I'd never thought about it before. But there you go, parents doing it for themselves. I don't think I could tell him the whole story - that may be one shock too far.

But I was really moved that someone had taken my throwaway comment and immediately understood that something like that could have affected me. So it seems there are people who have good parents who can understand that some people don't.

I think my mother is going properly insane now but I don't want to visit her and police say I shouldn't.

I had a very weird letter through today trying to upset me and saying untruths which I was dismayed at as I didn't know she has my address. So I suppose I have to call adult social services tomorrow. Don't know how else to deal with this.

@CharlieJSims Hi Charlie - sorry I missed your post as I was writing my essay above.

Welcome to the thread. We understand what you are going through and how it is making you feel and I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this situation.

It's hard because you want a proper mother (or at least a better relationship) but unfortunately with the one you have that's very unlikely to happen. You're not mad at all for wanting that. I thought that if I was nicer, better, kinder, meeker, anything it would get better but it never did because they are playing a game that you can never win and the rules will constantly change.

I don't have any specific advice but have a read through previous pages and you'll see that we all have very similar family dynamics.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly who can offer some better words.

Keep posting - you won't be judged or made to feel silly.

Charlie hello and welcome 🙂
Anyway I do tell her a lot
I think I want to start here, anything and everything you say can and will and used against you if she feels like it, she views herself as an eternal 'super adult' who always ranks above you, if she feels that her position her power relative to yours is slipping she will do anything and everything in her power to get back where she feels she belongs.
In her mind you owe her unconditional loyalty, that means that she thinks she can do whatever she likes and you just have to suck it up buttercup.
Stop being the buttercup
It doesn't have to be sudden but can you gradually distance yourself?
Take back your power, you're the boss now, you can do it and we will help you.

Hi Frownette🙂 are you ok?
any clues as to how she got your address🤔
are you still going to call adult social services tomorrow, are there any other options?

Very powerful thread. You are inspirational - a hope that it is possible to get to the other side.

Wow I'm so glad to find this thread. Have been wondering for a while about navigating these kind of relationships as an adult. I'm now pregnant myself and really worried about the thought of my child being around their grandparents, but I don't think mine or oh parents have ever considered themselves to be abusive and they are playing happy families. It's so difficult. Glad to know we are not alone ❤️

I’m a long time lurker, posted many threads back under different user names.

I’ve been NC with my mother for on and off for 15 years, we have difficult relationship. I feel like a fool, each time I go back and give her a chance, she monumentally lets me down.

My birthday was two days ago, she physically attacked me in the street, in front of my children because I asked her not to preach to my children. I don’t know how I feel. She believes that she’s been abandoned and there’s a conspiracy between all of us 4 siblings who’ve gone NC with her, it’s only a matter of time until db4 also does the same. But as he still lives at home this will be tricky. She refuses to see how her behaviour has had any effect on her relationship with her children. I’m convinced there are undiagnosed mental health issues.

It’s a horribly morbid thought but has anyone ever felt the only release from this life long trauma will be their parents passing?

Swooning many happy returns for two days ago🎉🎂🎉
yes I'm looking forward to when they're both dead.
Actually attacking you is horrifying, this is not the behaviour of a sane functional person, I would suggest she has mental health issues or at least is very disordered.
how are you now... have you had thoughts about how to deal with things going forward?

Could you report the attack to the police get an injunction against her?

swooning can you report her to the police for assault? There is probably CCTV for evidence.

I've named changed but been on this thread for a couple years.

Visited my parents today, I'm going to uni in a couple weeks to change my career. However I keep getting comments from my mum about how students are "far lefts" and how ill become one soon. My dad today agreed when she said it again. She's also made comments how ill become a hippy now I'm a student 🤨 these comments are wearing thin. I told them today students are not far lefts and stood my ground. I could see the annoyance in my dad's face. Just to note my dad is a myoginistic man, which I've only come to realise recently. As I'm becoming stronger and standing up for myself I can sense my dad's dislike towards me.
And also I think they are scared ill somehow become a "far left" because they are opposites and are rasict, fatists and myoginists who believe in a Britain with no outsiders. God I hate their twisted views on the world.

Just to state I'm not left or right. And I hate to be labelled and judged by my parents just because I'll be a student. Their views are so extreme and I hate it

@Heffalooomia ...thank you for the birthday wishes, that’s very kind.

It’s really knocked me for six tbh. I was so shocked at her behaviour at the time, I was physically shaking. I feel like a complete fool because back in July she cornered me in the kitchen and attacked me. That time her husband stepped in. We sat down spoke about boundaries, she agreed she’d be respectful of mine. My brother warned me of having contact but there’s a part of me that’s needs to keep trying despite all the disappointments.

I don’t think a report to the police will make an ounce of difference at this point. I’ll be back to no contact going forward, given the distance between our respective homes that should be fairly easy. This really was the last straw, I’m not planing on seeing her ever again.

I could see the annoyance in my dad's face
Oh yes the flash of anger
I think I'd be looking to up the ante and see if I could make his face go a dark shade of purple and steam issue from his ears.
why should you even take him seriously, mock him!
Or just shut him down if you prefer, but take control back.

I’m not planing on seeing her ever again
I want to say 'flatten the bitch' but that would be a dumb move, I'm so sorry it's heart breaking to be attacked by your mother, and then she acts like she's done nothing wrong.
Could she have some brain damage, has she had head injuries? Thats a serious lack of impulse control, who else has she assaulted, do you know?
What's her health like, how long do you have to suffer her presence on the earth?

Hope it's okay if I join the thread. I was directed here from my (long) thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3966495-Did-do-I-have-toxic-parents-How-to-overcome

I won't repeat everything said on there. I'm facing a couple of challenges at the moment. The first is that my maternity leave is almost over and work are wondering whether I'll be back. I have been dithering about this anyway as am not particularly happy there and I am not quite ready to leave my baby just yet , but it is complicated by the fact that my toxic emotionally abusive mother started a job at my place of work around a year ago. I cannot stand seeing her every day, even thinking about it makes me feel feel sick and angry. She would appear at my desk, wait for me outside the office on all of my breaks and everyone says how lovely and quiet she is which further fuels my rage. So I'm just not sure what to do, as since having DS my tolerance for family has got even lower.

My other issue is that my mum and sister both expect to see DS every other week, which wouldn't bother me if they weren't so emotionally abusive (well my sister isn't but she comes as a package with my mother) and my dad turns up uninvited every single weekend, despite me repeatedly telling him not to and explaining that my DS is a bad sleeper, and it is infuriating when he turns up banging on the door whenever he likes and then laughs when I tell him off. Mind you, he did turn up uninvited, and drunk, to the maternity ward the day after DS was born. I can't be myself with my DS in front of family, I feel my face getting all hot and they judge me and yesterday my mum mocked me for asking them to take their shoes off in living room because DS crawls everywhere, as well as mocking me reading to DS as "he can't read anyway he just likes looking at the pictures". I just feel so stifled by them and want to move far away.

SwooningMonkey

I would not at all be planning on see your mother or her enabler of a husband either.

Checking in. I need to be here.

@LostAndWandering Your mum got a job in your work place/? OMG

Lostandwandering
I'm horrified when I read about your parents, they're completely abusive toxic and dysfunctional how can we help you to escape from them, you deserve a life away from these people.
Please take steps to protect yourself and start making a plan, we can be here for you to support you on the internet but do you have any real life support?

@wiserolder yeah, I did say to my boss I'd feel uncomfortable if they offered her the position but they thought I was joking and in fact offered her it on the basis of her being related to me. And then asked me to be her office buddy for her settling in period. Lovely.

@Heffalooomia thank you, I do have a supportive husband who has had his fair share of horrible family experiences as a child and he still suffers from what he went through also. I am only now, in my early thirties, starting to realise just how wrong what my parents did was and how much it has impacted me and turned me into an anxious people pleaser, but I find it tricky now I have DS to distance myself from them, as they understandably want to see him often.

they understandably want to see him often
but these are not good people, do you really want them to have a significant role in your child's life?

Hi
Someone has directed me to this thread and it's like everything I need!
I'm hurting....I cry a lot and just struggling in general especially since realising that my DM has continued to be toxic throughout my adult life