But we took you to Stately Homes - May 2020 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's May 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
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December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
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November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Thank you @Fanthorpe, I will take a look.

@Tallpaulwho. I’m sorry to hear that your in laws’ behaviour has come to the fore now their ‘golden child’ is pregnant. The most important thing is that your child knows you care about them. Everything else is subsidiary. Are your parents involved in their lives?

I ask because I’ve now minimised contact between my parents and children but my mother in law is a positive presence in their lives and they know she loves them (without any conditions...). From my own children, I also know how adaptable they can be and they are often more perceptive than we give them credit for. If we make it into an issue it becomes one. But they will eventually see it for what it is (mine are older now ad see right through my family’s behaviour). Experience has taught me that as a parent it is my job to protect our children and manage theIr influences.

Hope it’s ok to join. Been having a pretty tough time of things lately and lots of things about my upbringing have sprung to the surface in particular that DSis is the golden child and can do no wrong and I’m the scapegoat. Have been told something by a relative which sheds some light on the situation but I’ve been instructed I’m not allowed to say anything. If it was just me that was impacted by the info I could deal with keeping things under wraps however, it impacts one of my dc quite significantly.

Hi @Itsatoughgig welcome.

Have you looked at the Out of the Fog website? Sounds like you’re starting to recognise the Fear, Obligation and Guilt that surrounds you.

Was the member of your wider family that gave you the information doing it for your benefit or their own? Families with narcissistic members tend to operate on a divide and conquer basis, isolation is power.

Do some of the reading recommended on the first page of the thread if you can. Sorry you’re going through this, it’s hard.

@Tallpaulwho
I can totally sympathise. I have been shocked in so many occasions by ILs attitude to DH and our DC.
He is the youngest of 3 siblings and because
1: he didn't turn out to be a girl
2: he was dyslexic and struggled at school
he was basically ignored and made to feel worthless.

Sadly he has spent his whole life trying to make them notice him and impress them but nothing is ever good enough. Golden children 1 & 2 are always doing it bigger, better, more importantly.
Hilarious really given DH runs his own successful business (even employs one of his DB's) and has achieved much more given his difficult childhood.

I saw them for what they really were years ago; self centred snobs who didn't actually give a shit about their youngest child or our DC. Been NC for years after I'd had enough of them treating our DC the same way as they did DH.
They only have 3 GC (2 are ours), but the other is the hallowed GS. "Sooo marvellous at school, top grades in everything, hoping he'll become a doctor, sooo proud...."
Nothing about our 2, they haven't bothered ringing or texting once during lockdown. My DM has been very ill through lockdown, meaning I've been really preoccupied and DH asked them to ring DC just to check how they were doing. Nothing.

Yet still DH tries, he just won't walk away. Just says they try their best and no parents are perfect. He is continually disappointed by them.
I just wish he would see it for what it was, they make my blood boil

Really sorry everyone, another small vent coming up.

So I’ve recently got in touch with my dad and in a not unrelated development, started drinking again. It’s to do with nightmares and honestly to do with the massive sense of dread and upset I feel whenever I have to go and visit there. He’s urging me to get back in touch with my mother because “she’s very upset” which honestly has never in a million years been a reason for my mother to stop doing any of the things which have left me with a lifetime legacy of PTSD, OCD traits, a total inability to have healthy relationships and so on. Yes, I am quite unwell, can’t always function completely and am achingly bloody lonely at the moment but being back in touch with my family is making me feel contaminated and ill again. Finally the NHS is not helping - my key worker suggested I start having cold showers so I could cope if my mum turned up again. Why is everyone so keen to shove me back in as cannon fodder? Sorry if this sounds like hysterical complaining but it just feels like everyone in the world thinks I should just go back to being her emotional support animal, poisoned more and more by it until all the self-destruction I use to cope breaks me. And the stupid thing is that if it were my husband, everyone would be ridiculing me for not leaving earlier. The prospect of not wanting to be around someone who happens not to be a romantic partner because they are also abusive on the other hand is selfish. I’m so tired. I’ve been fighting so hard to get better and always get dragged back.

@CeciledeVolanges I'm sorry you've had a downward turn.

People who don't live with toxic parents can never understand the turmoil and chaos it causes.

Can you take a step back from your dad for a bit, if he won't stop talking about your mum? X

That’s the plan. I just got back in touch with him about three weeks ago and most of what he’s done is to point out problems with my life plan and talk about what a moral duty I have to be in contact with my mother and I’m just too tired for it right now. I have nightmares about it every night (not exaggerating, it’s without exception) and I’m just trying to get a new start and move on really.

It's actually fascinating if you aren't involved
I agree, I feel as if I have reached a point of some detachment from my parents where I can see their games and it IS all very interesting, but it's hell until you can get to a place of detachment and that is very difficult... in my experience.
(Long-term user and reader of these threads checking in with a new username)

Looking for advice/vent.

My DM can be very difficult to deal with at times and can be very self centered and attention seeking, and constantly guilt trips and puts me down. it gets particularly bad - and I know this is really difficult - around the deaths of family members.

One of my sister's died as a teenager and obviously we were all devastated. But my DM had quite elaborate grief rituals - going to visit the grave every day, putting up loads of photos, inventing conspiracy theories around DS's death - that were actually really, really difficult for my teenage self to cope with and I went off the rails for a couple of years when I left home as I was so desperate to escape from it all.

Fast forward 20 years and I'm now an adult. DM has form for literally and metaphorically barging in (she tried to invite herself into the operating theatre when I had DS, and then completely ignored my requests to give me some peace and quiet when I was very ill with an infection after having DD), and will criticise my parenting at any opportunity, so I've taken her off my FB and stopped sending her photos.

My sister died recently - she became an alcoholic after my older DS died and I don't think my DM's behaviour at the time helped matters at all. She had many crises before she died and DM almost always made things worse when she got involved with them.

My recently deceased sister was married and had two kids so my DM isn't the next of kin. But she's kind of cast herself in the role of chief mourner again and is busy attempting to interfere with any arrangements (I had to be really firm with her about not trying to hire her own funeral director), ignoring my niece and nephew's wishes or not consulting them. What prompted this post was that I was working on a book of photos and bits of writing about my sister for them and I've just discovered my DM, who knew about this, has contributed to mine but also made her own book to give out to people without telling me, I just feel like she's completely unable to let people mourn in their own way without making it about her.

I don't know what to do! Obviously it's really horrible for DM but she's really making a shitty time even worse. I kind of feel I went through it all once when I was a teenager and don't want to go through all this again.

I’m not sure I really have any advice @StareyCat, because I don’t know how to deal with that in my own life (my DM is the same, including around pets, which sounds trivial but doesn’t feel it). I just wanted to say that that sort of behaviour comes from a deep sort of narcissism, it’s done to get attention and sympathy and validation of the belief that their grief is the biggest grief. I’m not expressing this very well. So, in case it helps, I’m really sorry that you’ve lost your DSis in circumstances which sound absolutely heartbreaking, and your grief and sorrow and, I can imagine, justified anger at your DM are real and legitimate. Also, don’t be pressured into feeling like you have to do or not do certain things. Maybe get as much distance from your DM as possible, defend your boundaries, feel free to do whatever you want or need to do to mark your DSis’s life and death and don’t feel like you have to include her.
Once again, I’m really sorry for what’s happened.

@CeciledeVolanges thank you and sorry to hear you've had similar. It's horrible because obviously it is terrible for DM and people are naturally sympathetic but it's easy for immediate family to get dragged down. I remember her screaming at everyone else that nobody else cared about older DS dying because other people in the family said that some of the stuff she was doing wasnt helping.

I'm just trying to keep it all at arms length. Its stuff like she went and bought a headstone without involving anyone else and has now ended up with it in her garden because she cant lift it and didnt organise for it to be installed so now there's a completely unnecessary drama about that, and keeps complaining about paying for it. If shed just asked everyone else in the first place it would be sorted, but then she wouldn't have been able to control everything and used it to ramp up more drama.

I'm planning on getting a tattoo which I'm not telling her about as she'll go mental!

StareyCat I am so sorry that you have lost two sisters - and also that your own DM has been inadequate throughout. Grief is a narcs dream - we have had histrionics in our family for decades.

Don’t get drawn in. Let her do whatever - otherwise somehow YOU will be blamed.

This will be a v triggering situation for all of you and will stir up all the unresolved grief from decades ago.

Look to comfort yourself now and as that teenager to ground yourself. As you know it’s a v long road and the only ones centre stage here should be your nieces/nephews.

They might need your guidance and support in 6 months, 2 years, 5 years. Be available to them to point them in the right direction of support services. They will have to come to terms with an alcoholic mother, dysfunctional childhood to add to the complex wounds of her untimely death.

Take care of yourself first. Turn your back and resist looking at your mother’s antics.

Let someone else deal with her.

[quote StareyCat]@CeciledeVolanges thank you and sorry to hear you've had similar. It's horrible because obviously it is terrible for DM and people are naturally sympathetic but it's easy for immediate family to get dragged down. I remember her screaming at everyone else that nobody else cared about older DS dying because other people in the family said that some of the stuff she was doing wasnt helping.

I'm just trying to keep it all at arms length. Its stuff like she went and bought a headstone without involving anyone else and has now ended up with it in her garden because she cant lift it and didnt organise for it to be installed so now there's a completely unnecessary drama about that, and keeps complaining about paying for it. If shed just asked everyone else in the first place it would be sorted, but then she wouldn't have been able to control everything and used it to ramp up more drama.

I'm planning on getting a tattoo which I'm not telling her about as she'll go mental![/quote]
When I went NC with my mother I got a nose piercing. She had applied a lot of pressure to a family friend to remove hers, so I wanted to get one as a gesture of independence and apparently it really suits me! I can recommend that sort of gesture, it’s very liberating.

I suffer from a tremendous amount of guilt and find this really difficult because of the years of gaslighting and manipulation warping my mind, but it’s your life. You owe it to yourself and the people who honestly and straightforwardly love you to acknowledge how you feel and what you need and act on that. You are not a bit player in your mother’s drama, and actually it needn’t matter a bit what she wants you to do or how she wants you to react. A really terrible thing, compounded by the devastation of your first bereavement, has happened to you. There will be things you need, and things you want, and ways you will move forward and grow - probably in the future, but no less important for that. I’m so sorry that it this has happened - I wish I could say more than say I’m sorry, honestly - but the drama doesn’t have to be a part of your life at all, and it sounds like it’s just a drain on your valuable time and energy.

I hope this is OK to say, but perhaps while you’re alone or with someone that you trust, think about what it would be like to be reacting to your sister’s death if she had become an alcoholic because of a complete stranger to your family. Think about what, and who you would need, and don’t be afraid or ashamed to prioritise that. You have my permission to do that, if you need it. You aren’t here to serve your mother, but to be the beautiful and valuable individual that you are - please treat yourself that way. I hope it’s OK to say all this.

If you’ve got people who can support you, please lean on them. If you’ve got things you love to do, please do them. Life is so, so much more than the confected play that a self-centred person wants to make of it and you are worth so much more than a bit part in that play.

I hope all this is OK to say - it’s late for me and I’ve had a long day - but I mean every word and I’m sure I’m not the only one to be thinking like this. It’s so, so sad that you’ve been robbed of siblings. It’s wrong and I’m sorry.

I’m so sorry about your losses @StareyCat.

A death in the family is complicated for a narcissist. Attention that is usually focused on them and their needs is disrupted, it’s shared among the affected family members, so the narc has to appear to be the most impacted by the death. As they find empathy difficult they don’t look at how they could support someone else in their mutual grief.

It’s very conflicting, of course your mother will be devastated at the loss of her children, it’s a normal reaction. But you are also dealing with your own feelings of loss and grief which you would expect to be shared and to be offered comfort for.

Your anger at being left to deal with her is also valid. Her need for attention is getting in the way of your need to grieve.

Hi,

Using "sibling" for a bit extra anonymity.

I have been off and on this thread under various guises over the years but I'm writing this post to see if anyone has experienced this exact thing :

Rotating Golden Child and Scapegoat?

I am one of 3
I have a close friend who is 1 of 5

I have noticed in both our cases that our DMs are only capable of maintaining an involved relationship with one child at a time.

In my case, Sibling A is the current Golden Child, Sibling B the scapegoat and I just get thrown the odd crumb here and there currently, I am absolutely not a priority. On the one hand, there have been times when I have been the GC. It is in a way A's turn. However, Sibling A's turn as Golden Child is very difficult for me.

I have never enjoyed a good relationship with them, and don't like them as a person at all. Sibling A's stint as "flavour of the month" has lasted a couple of years now. I am VLC with them anyway, to the extent I don't have them on my phone.

But actually, Sibling A is less of a problem here than DM herself. Her parenting style when we were children was very Divide And Conquer anyway tbh.

But at the moment when talking to DM It has become total EleventyRife

WHATEVER you say, Sibling A has been there, done that, or better.

A good example is that DM told me Sibling A had gone to a specific shop that is near my house for a service, and raved about how good it was. I said I was using a different business for the same thing.

I got the same service done again at another later date at the place I use.

She cut me off mid sentence to say Yes thats where Sibling A went (it isn't, completely different names and locations) and they said etc etc etc

Everything, and I mean, everything you say turns into being cut off with a long Well Your Sibling story. She also hangs on and repeats their every fart like its genius, even if some of their guff is callow, cruel, ignorant or unintelligent. DM is also thoroughly aware of the vindictive behaviour A has subjected me to over the years and by and large pretends it hasnt happened but acknowledges it if I bring it up. Recently she will say "oh but I think you will find A has changed" They most certainly haven't and they never will.

If I loved my sibling this would still piss me off tbh. But I cant stand them and it has badly wore thin.

Inevitably they (DM and A) are going to have a very large fight as sibling is domineering and short tempered. DM will then come running to me to complain and put me back in the GC role.

And

Thing is, when it does rotate back to me, I don't think I want it, and I am thinking of telling her exactly what her pattern is and where to go.

Anyone out there, similar?

Wild it sounds excruciating ☹️ also sounds like she's a one trick pony and playing people off against each other is her sole Modus operandi
I have to say I think the most effective strategy might be to quietly distance yourself?

Thanks @Heffalooomia

It is so bad, Sibling B lives abroad and does not often visit.

DM treated B's last visit so embarrassingly disinterestedly I made a point of showing B sympathy. I found it quite heartbreaking, but no, only eyes for A and A's demands.

The reason B has currently assumed the scapegoat role is because B had the audacity to upset DM and A with facts.

I think you’ve described it really well @WildUnknown, it’s a tactic to keep you all apart and suspicious of one another so you all defer to your DM. She gets a kick out of managing you all, being the relayer of news.

When I stood up for my scapegoated sister my DM was outraged and incredulous ‘Why?’ She said ‘You don’t like her!’

It’s fear, obligation and guilt. To be honest the golden child suffers as well, just in a different way.

The only answer is to go as low contact as possible, or even better none at all. Siblings, as long as they’re all aware of what’s going on, might be a more optimistic picture. It’s exhausting though being in your guard all the time.

You just need to get back to permanent LC/NC. Your involvement is narc fuel - they need the imbalance, division and tension between people to keep their toxic world spinning - it’s energy.

Once you drop the rope - all of that power dissipates. She can’t have a golden child if there is no contrast, no echo chamber - she just has a child - one on one.

These people need somewhere to discharge their emotional hate (that’s on you) but when you are not there it has to come out in the RS with whoever is left in the ring.

In my family the narc has eventually turned on the GC once I took myself out of punching distance.

I hope that you find the mental clarity and emotional strength to disconnect - to turn your back. Don’t waste any more time trying to work them all out - it stinks, whatever specific aroma of shit it is is irrelevant - step away and don’t look back. Get some therapy and pro-actively replace any intrusive thoughts of them with v contrasting visual images, words or empowering song.

@Sssloou

The interesting part is that Sibling A is what I would describe as a raging narcissist and DM as 'having traits'

They are both so self absorbed that I don't think my distance is cared about or noted.

Having had spells as the GC its really hard for me to remember not to tell DM things because she programs in to you to report and rely.

But I am all too aware that whatever I say is now repeated verbatim to A almost especially including things I would NEVER voluntarily tell A. And I have to censor myself constantly with DM.

Most frustrating of all, I moved earlier this year, preCOVID the intention wasn't to be closer to DM but was a natural consequence. A has now immediately followed suit. As we are now all in one place, harder to distance.

I already have 2 things happening they know nothing about but it feels quite isolating.

You say isolating but there’s no good attention coming your way from them, just negativity and guilt. If you’re relying on them for support ask yourself why? It’s very hard to drop the rope, but it’s the only way of getting clarity. Just remember that the things you tell them are just drama and entertainment, there’s no empathy or care involved - but you know that. Have you read any of the books or websites mentioned on the first page? It might be worth going back even if you have to re-focus on what’s going on and find your resolution to put yourself back in the centre of your life.

The only way of getting clarity
I agree, all the time that they are in your life in some way they are able to keep up their influence that stops you properly seeing through the fog, every interaction is an opportunity for them to press buttons and pull levers to try and get you to work for them instead of doing what is in your long-term best interests

I haven't been on here for a very long time but I'm in a difficult situation with regards to my DM and DB. My DSis thinks we should tell my DB what our F was like, that he sexually abused the two of us, and allowed him to be abused too, and groomed him to join in. (He's long since dead, so not a part of this now.)

Here's the dilemma. My DB claims to have forgotten everything and idolises the memory of our F, which means that my DSis and I can't have a relationship with him. I do believe him that he doesn't remember any of it (he has very little memory at all). My DSis is fed up with this and wants to tell him, or wants him to be told. I don't know what's for the best, I want him to know as well, but I don't want to damage him further, as he's already damaged beyond repair. His GP and psychiatrist don't think he should be told, only if he starts to remember on his own.

I do get it but it means that we can't cope with being around him. He can't be around our DC because he abused us as children and we reported that to the police a few years ago, and he used to be very shouty around them. But it's a shame that he has no relationship with either of his sisters.

My DSis and I also don't like the way we're hearing it all from our DM, and we feel that she's being very controlling about this. I know that she's broken about what happened to us, and she's 80 years old now, but she's always been very controlling. We're having a day out with my DSis and her family (my DSis asked my DM not to come), but she's trying to control what we do from the sidelines.

Sorry this is long. I've also been very unwell, with long-term Covid (which is finally clearing up after 5 months), but I have literally no strength with CFS on top of the PTSD. Our DDs (11 and 8) are adopted and have their own issues, so I do feel that I could do without this, I admit.

I've had to name change for this as what I'm going to say will be incredibly outing!

Rotating Golden Child is definitely a thing. M definitely plays us off against each other - although we both know DB is the favourite.

M fell out with DB's fiancé the night before the wedding, and she said (very intuitively) that it was always someone's turn to be in the firing line!

@Mittens030869 sorry you are having a rough time.

I think if the Psychiatrist says not to tell him, then I think you need to leave well alone. If you need to go NC with your brother, then fine, but I don't think it's worth telling him if it's going to have a huge impact on his mental health.

As for me, quick query. DB has been messaging lots lately... and as expected has turned flying monkey.

My eldest's birthday is coming up (she is the favoured grandchild) and M has asked via DB whether she can send money for her as my other two children have had birthday presents this years (pre NC).

I ignore this right? Just don't reply at all?

I have no doubt that in the future M would use my refusal to let me kids have presents against me, should she get into contact with them. And if I say no, she will probably ignore me anyway, she always does what she wants.

DB has also asked me a question, which I don't really need to respond to, so I'm thinking I just ignore it completely.

His interest in me will fade as always and the contact will dwindle back to birthdays and christmas.

It's also my birthday this weekend, so I imagine this is also a hint that I won't be getting anything, which is fine and I'd prefer it that way.