How does everyone feel about p0rn?

[warmsummersday]

Hi. Im feeling abit insecure at the mo, OH works away in the week and all I can think about for the past couple of weeks is porn and I don't like the idea of him looking at it. I don't know why. Obviuosly I know he looks at it, just like everyother tom dick and harry! I have some but for me to look at it is fine in my head. Can someone reasure me and make me feel better please?

Mrs Marvel, are you really stating that a person who has been abused in the past is to be forever deprived of full legal rights ie the right to CHOOSE for him or herself what he or she wants to do? THat is outrageously insulting and condescending.

Also, LFC and Elizabetth please note: your claims that the porn industry is richer and more powerful than any other industry in the world are a longstanding urban myth and, quite frankly, complete bullshit. The figures often chucked about (24 billino in the original version of the story) were arrived at by a police chief taking the amount of money made by the legal porn industry in California, multiplying it by the number of states in America and - completely ignoring that many US states have no porn industry at all - claimng that this figure was the total amount of money made by the US porn industry. SOme UK fuckwit from the anti porn campaigns then took the US figure, put a £ sing in front of it instead of a dollar sign and claimed this was how much money the UK industry made...

LFC you are entitled to your opinions though I think some of them are based on sheer misinformation (and while people have a right to pursue their beliefs in imaginary deities, people who don't share these beliefs are under no obligation to take any notice of them).

Hi Madamez I wouldn't dream of speaking for the other posters, but I think the idea is that the free choice of vulnerable people is limited by the fact of their vulnerability.
It's a question of adding to their legal rights not removing them.

If you honestly believe that all of the actors in porn have freely of their own volition chosen it as a career plan - that noone's been trafficked or bribed with drugs or brutalised - then you really do live in a dream world.

I don't think that strongly disapproving of porn equates to being a prude sex is not porn, what happens between to consenting adults is their business and nothing really is 'wrong'

If porn is ok then you would not mind your mother daughter sister brother etc, choosing it as a career likewise with prostitution, empowering for women my arse

CC: how do you think the situation of 'vulnerable' people is improved by refusing to listen to what they say? The original Dworkin'Mackinnon proposed legislation suggested that because no woman 'could' freely consent to appear in pornographic material, then any contracts a female porn performer signed would be invalid. Many feminists objected to this on the grounds that women had fought long and hard for the right to make choices for themselves and to be counted as full, adult human beings.

Now there is a whole separate issue here about to what extent some people (those with SEN or mental illnesses, for example) should be denied the right to make choices in the name of 'protecting' them, but the implications made by some posters here that anyone who has suffered a past trauma is no longer mentally competent (and by extension, anyone who disagrees with their extremely narrow and judgemental view of sexual behaviour is not mentally competent either) is outrageous.

SFXmum I wouldn't mind any child of mine making a free and informed choice about anything. SOme of my dearest friends are people who are or have been involved in the sex industry or the porn industry. SOme of them have had some unpleasant experiences - but no more numerous or unpleasant than things that have befallen other friends, either through exploitative (non sex-related) employers or abusive relationships (in which porn did not feature).

Very interesting madamez, but I notice you have ignored the question of whether people exist in the porn industry who are coerced/drugged/bullied etc. Your argument ignores this issue, and dragging up 30 year old failed proposals for legislation only indicates the feebleness of your logic.

madamez, i'm so glad you've clarified the numbers....I was certain that pornography didn't make as much as the arms industry.

I don't think it is quite the same I feel porn treats sex as abnormal / commercial and outside of the everyday richness of human interaction.
it becomes a commodity just like the bodies of those involved likewise those of other people.

I don't like the idea that it gives of ready availability and that people really want it all the time really even when they say they don't.

I am sure the people you know are perfectly nice but that is beside the point for me

Madamez,

I would be grateful if you would lay off the personal attacks as so far today you have:

1. Called me misinformed - it's not 'real' facts being bandied about here mostly it's just opinion. Therefore I can't be misinformed about 'opinion.

2. called my god an 'imaginary deity' - again he's only imaginary to you NOT me. That's pretty rude and judgemental about someone's faith.

I have striven hard to be polite and respectful of your opinions even though I disagree, please afford me the same courtesy.

the stuff about 'informed choice' - that's a very difficult and subjective area.

For example I would say that a child brought up with serious sexual abuse who lives in a small area with little outside experience can easily get into prostitution/pornography young with really having what I would call 'informed consent'.

Just becuase you reach a certain ages doesn't mean you automatically know what you are doing is healthy.

I use this argument for paedophiles (I've counselled a few) - just because they reach a certain age like 16 or 18 if they have been serially abused and then go on to abuse it does not make them completely morally culpable in my opinion (though legally of course).

In reality age has very little to do with it - some vulnerable people who have been abused who have not had serious amounts of help cannot make informed consent in my opinion.

Note : only my opinion, not quoting statistics or anything or trying to take away from your different opinions

Second paragraph without

Right, sorry for being away so long, I was busy watching Broke Crack Mountain.

However, as to whether porn should be banned because some of the actors/actresses are bullied - well people are bullied at school, should we ban schools??? Of course not, that is absurd.

LFC - Are you really suggesting that because someone has been abused and grown up in shitty conditions they can't make their own choices? I actually think that's quite offensive. Many people have had dreadful childhoods and are able to think for themselves.

"In reality age has very little to do with it - some vulnerable people who have been abused who have not had serious amounts of help cannot make informed consent in my opinion."

If this is your opinion then there are many, many people out there being raped everyday by their partners. That's not just the porn industry. If a woman can't give "informed consent" to feature in porn then neither can she give it in any relationship.

Yes but there is a support structure at school to try and stamp out bullying, what support structure is in place for porn stars? Many people who have had godawful childhoods often lack the confidence and self-esteem to be able to stick up for themselves. They are so used to being told what to do and what they are, they literally cannot think for themselves.

Those who have had unhappy childhoods and grow up to be confident and well-adjusted people are very lucky. The rest of us are left with scars and there are still those who sank even further into the 'victim' cycle.

That is my point tho Rhubarb that there should be support systems, regulation and enforcement. It doesn't justify banning porn.

As for the ones who can't think for themselves, that is not solely restricted to porn.

I'm trying to just give an example. I'm saying that if someone has been abused as a child and then goes on to porn without ever having had help to resolve any issues then I do not think it is consenting.

If it is your 'normal' life to be abused it is easier to be cowed and accept it.

I think the same thing about young women who had bad childhoods and been in care (I'm a foster mum) and then fall into inappropriate abusive relationships.

I'm saying its hard to 'catch' these vulnerable people and that just because they reach a certain age doesn't stop them being vulnerable.

We all know how easy it is to 'brainwash' a child, if you bring them up to think that abuse is 'normal' its easier for them to fall into abusive relationships without knowing that there's an alternative.

I'm NOT saying this applies to everyone who has been abused - I've already said that if I hadn't dealt with my issues I could have made very inappropriate choices as I was used to being abused/neglected.

No but from what I've read (and I stand to be corrected) you are saying that porn should be banned because there are some people involved in the porn industry who were abused as children, on the basis that those people cannot give consent.

No, you are taking her words out of context, she's said that porn should be regulated and a support structure in place, hell even a Union I reckon!

My point is you wouldn't stop those people choosing their partners (who are often abusive). You wouldn't stop them choosing whether to have children. Yet you seem to think they are not able to choose to work in porn.

I do not believe porn should be banned - not once have i said that.

I wish it didn't exist - not the same thing

I'm a liberal - very much against censorship

Actually I've been saying all along that it should be regulated. That is exactly what I'm trying to say. LFC however seems to disagree, from her earlier postings.

Sorry x-posted. In that case I stand corrected. I thought you were saying that it should be banned.

Ok, your last question is hard to explain but I'll have a go.

if someone is in an abusive relationship only themselves ( and their children if they exist) are getting hurt.

If they're appearing in hardcore porn involving really painful acts then it contributes something else - it makes it somehow 'acceptable' or normalises extreme pornography - I don't want to describe acts

It contributes to women being 'objectified' - I'm using that word reluctantly cos i don't want to turn into a feminist ranter here. For example where juries are concerned women who have alleged rape have their characters/sex lives quizzed endlessly. I've seen videos of juries where ordinary people really do say "Well, she was a prostitute so it doesn't matter if she was raped - whats one more dick"?

have to go to vets,

back later

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