"It's money, I earn it"

[GilbertMarkham]

This is apparently the way things are in my household/marriage.

I feel think I should know about and have input into the overall financial picture in our household.

Hid opinion is the above.

He thinks that he pays for everything, therefore that's enough/fair .. and that I have no right to know in detail or get involved in the overall finances.

He works full-time in a fairly well paid job. Part of the reason for the good pay is that he works on projects in London, which (before lockdown) required fortnightly stays overnight or two nights there while I obviously look after DD alone. He'll return to this when able.

I have been working two or three days a week for a while. My hours are limited by drop off and pick up times for nursery, as my work is an hour away. The money I made doing this (before lockdown) didn't really have an impact. By the time unpaid travel expenses etc. If was mainly to get me back into work after maternity. We have one DD. We moved from where we were living when our DD was about 4 months as we weren't cooing without support from family (and also it was difficult to get in the housing ladder where we were).

He pays for everything, including the low mortgage on a house I own from before we married if it's not rented out.

My view is that since we had a child, his salary is family/household money, not "his" money. I can't work full-time as I look after DD two/three days, do 90% of drop.offs and pickups on the days I was working. Stay off 100% of the time off for illness, do 99% of appointments, and do the overnights mentioned above.

I don't think most people in a marriage would feel happy or invested with his attitude. He thinks it's fine because he pays for everything he should - but it's still very much his money.

He also said he didn't want me/I didn't have s right UK make him give details and justify what he spends on what .. probably because I'm more frugal on average than he is and he knows I might be critical/frustrated.

I’m a little torn on this one, to be honest. He pays all financial outgoings including childcare, and when you work all your money is yours (I am interested in what you do that means your travel costs swallow your entire wage). He would (as far as we know in what he’s said) be happy for you to work full time. Is his worry about you criticising his spending valid?
I’m always interested by the chorus of women suggesting she invoice him for 50% childcare, do you really think that would balance out 50% of all other household outgoings?

then tell him you can split pick ups and drop offs, and sort childcare for the times between nursery closing and work finishing.

He leaves too early and gets back too late to do drop offs and pickups. He does one pickup on a Friday afternoon when he leaves work early.

That's usually ok but occasionally a problem but before lockdown he said his new line manager might out an end to it.

If I say do half he'll say hes the main wage earner, pays for everything, and he can't.

"I'd have to be constructive and affectionate"

What do you mean by "constructive"?
Is it something to do with not criticising him and only making nice polite "constructive" requests?

What's the other issue?

Plenty of couples have separate finances within the marriage OP. You have an issue in that you don’t like the principle of your money not being joint, however you are in receipt of an allowance and he pays for your property when it is empty. If you don’t like the situation, you have the option of earning more of your own money.

Would you feel differently if you were in receipt of the same amount for spending but it wasn’t an allowance?

What do you actually want?
More cash in your hand?
Access to the money he has earned?
Ability to see bank statements and - in his eyes - check up on him?
All of the above?
A wise man once said 'people with nothing to hide, hide nothing'
So is he hiding something or is he just being a bit 1950s?

So he pays for childcare, all household bills, food, your mortgage when required (and associated bills) and you get an allowance. You also work part time and get money from this.

I don’t get the problem? He’s not financially abusing you (from what you’ve said) and he’s just not telling you what you want to hear which is all money is family money.

You have seen a solicitor and checked with CAB? Why? Do you not like him?

I just don’t get the issue, it is his money as he earns it, just as you earned money is yours. Except he pays for everything and you pay for taxis to and from nursery. But your pissed off with him because he won’t say all money is joint?

You do sound a bit spoilt and you should probably get over yourself or you might find you are back in your wee house on your own!

• plenty of people both work full time and juggle childcare arrangements - and yes the in these relationships the higher earners tend to take preference with staying at work/ill child etc

What is the other major issue OP?

You've contemplated divorce. This isn't just a disagreement about the money.

Perhaps his female colleague who thought you were "spoilt" might fancy a look on here. Honestly a woman at work ,presumably childless has her word counted as gospel! So many men seem to think being at home with DC is some kind of mini break FFS! The problem here is you are not being treated as an equal and you should be .The rent from the house you own should be surely at least half yours ? you could buy a car from that maybe ? I would think about maybe returning to work at some stage in the near future (maybe when DD is starting school) or something like that .His attitude will only get worse .Its not the 50s any more and he needs to realise that!

am interested in what you do that means your travel costs swallow your entire wage

11 quid an hour self employed, 10 to 4 (in order to meet drop off & pick up and absorb travel) , not being paid lunch - 55 quid.

35 on return travel (train 15, return taxi home to station via nursery, 20 at discount for regular user) leaves 20 quid a day before any breakfast & lunch if I haven't made it and brought it with me (which I admit I don't always manage) ... And that obviously with no contribution to 36 a day childcare in a rural village nursery that's cheaper than all town ones and more convenient to get to on way to town I'm working in.

He’s not financially abusing you (from what you’ve said) and he’s just not telling you what you want to hear which is all money is family money.

Oh no he's definitely not.

That's one view (all money is not family money) and that's what I came on here for.

He is having the best of both worlds isn’t he? He has the ‘family’ .. and then he has the single life when he is away .. could it be that you feel he is having his cake and eating it? And btw talking to colleagues about your personal issues is a no no in my opinion ..

That's one view (all money is not family money) and that's what I came on here for.

I feel you're in danger of being like your husband's colleague who, not knowing the full facts, only the small amount your husband has mentioned, concluded you were spoilt. You're presenting to us a very narrow issue for which you want opinions.

Yet you've mentioned a supposed lack of affection towards him as another issue. You've also seen a solicitor and received advice from CAB.

I think it's a little disingenuous to ask opinions about the finances as if this issue exists in isolation when there's so much else obviously going on, starting with his view that you are neither constructive nor affectionate.

it is his money as he earns it, just as you earned money is yours.

I can't earn money when I'm looking after our child, including several days overnight every fortnight when he's in London.

My warning capacity, even if earning full-time, is limited by drops offs and pickups, sicknesses (small children are often sick and ours has asthma) , appointments related to sickneses etc etc. These s.fall to Mr because he's the main earner, a catch twenty two for me.

*earning capacity.

It sounds like he just doesn’t want you judging and criticising what he’s spending his money on. DP and I completely share all money but we also don’t keep tabs on what each other is spending. You sound a bit controlling if you want him to justify exactly what he spends and will get critical/frustrated if he’s not frugal enough for you

But you said you didn’t want to work more, because you didn’t want your child in childcare more than she already is?
I don’t think it’s fair to cut it both ways, saying you don’t want to work more and you’re suprised he would want her in more childcare when he offers that up, but then blame him in the converse because he works away as the main earner and you need to pick up more childcare.
You haven’t responded to any posters who have asked if he has a point about you being critical of his expenditure?

His working hours are too long to not share 50% responsibility for childcare pickups and drop offs? Tough shit!

Why is it always the woman whose career has to take a nose dive. Why can't the man also be forced to work more flexibly, a few less hours?

Because we allow them to continue this ridiculously sexist outdated misogynistic behaviour.

If you split, and he took 50% responsibility for his child, he'd have to find a way then wouldn't he?

This situation didn't happen overnight. You've allowed him to treat you like a lesser partner whilst he continues his lifestyle. He needs to start pulling his weight, you néed to start earning enough to keep yourself because unless you're willing to accept being somebody's live in maid/nanny you are the only person who can change your life. He's made it pretty clear he's more important in the relationship.

I think it's a little disingenuous to ask opinions about the finances as if this issue exists in isolation when there's so much else obviously going on, starting with his view that you are neither constructive nor affectionate.

The lack of sex life needs us to be affectionate and try to build towards having sex again .. I don't feel.very affectionate when I think about statements like the above .. seems like I'm.not the only one from this thread.

The other issue is that he pushed/threw me about 13 years ago during an escalating series of arguments when I said something extremely unremorseful about some previous shitty behaviour of mine. And that he loomed over/chested up to me at Christmas during an argument about him not looking thoroughly for a grotto.

When I posted about the latter, without much detail, I was told I wax in an abusive relationship and should leave with my DD post haste. When I have details I was told were we both abusive and many people would have cracked also if I'd pursued an argument about not looking for a grotto when asked/told to leave it.

That is a lot for one thread and had already been covered in other threads.

I am trying to think through issues and bresk them down . Separating this was for simplicity and clarity, not in order to be disengenuous ... But thank you for accusing me of being disengenuous anyway. I see this sort of posting time and time again on MN and you really need to wise up and get a civil tongue in your head.

Btw - before it starts - the argument 13 yes ago and the recent argument are not common, not regular, not representative.. we usually get along and now coparent peacefully.

If that was not the case I would not be in relationship.

£35 a day on travel 2-3 days a week? What is the point in that? That will cost you £280-£420 a month?? You'd be far cheaper to get a car on hire purchase or PCP for about £200 a month then once you take fuel, insurance etc into it, you'll still be better off plus have a car to use any time you like and you'll be paying for it

But you said you didn’t want to work more, because you didn’t want your child in childcare more than she already is?

I have mixed feelings about it.

I would work ft rather than be as a posted said an unequal partner, but I would feel shit about it.

If we split ill have to work at least four days anyway.

You'd be far cheaper to get a car on hire purchase or PCP for about £200 a month then once you take fuel, insurance etc into it, you'll still be better off plus have a car to use any time you like and you'll be paying for it

Its been discussed and he was going to buy a cheap car before lockdown. I'll look into this.

Also I could try to get work in this v small town, I went back to my previous employer because it was an easy in without having to try put together a full portfolio and CV.

Feeling that you weren't being completely candid with everything that is happening in your life and expressing that opinion isn't being uncivil, OP.

I won't comment further than this post because my opinions about him throwing you and being physically aggressive don't chime with yours. I would suggest that his expressed belief that you're not constructive/affectionate is part of something that escalates occasionally to physical violence, and to my mind links with his belief that his money is his.

If you split, and he took 50% responsibility

But they don't, do they?

And if he takes DD 50-50 I wouldn't get any CM, would I. Of course I'd be freer to work so ..

But he wouldn't. I've discussed it and he's already said he couldn't quite do 50 - 50.

He no doubt thinks that's fair because he'd be paying child support.

Feeling that you weren't being completely candid with everything that is happening in your life and expressing that opinion isn't being uncivil, OP.

It wasn't a lack of candidness (if that's a word) and I've explained why ... To call someone disengenuous is uncivil.

I've seen posters like you irritate, stress and sometimes drive away ops on here with this type of behaviour. But you'll never see it as wrong from your perch.