"It's money, I earn it"

[GilbertMarkham]

This is apparently the way things are in my household/marriage.

I feel think I should know about and have input into the overall financial picture in our household.

Hid opinion is the above.

He thinks that he pays for everything, therefore that's enough/fair .. and that I have no right to know in detail or get involved in the overall finances.

He works full-time in a fairly well paid job. Part of the reason for the good pay is that he works on projects in London, which (before lockdown) required fortnightly stays overnight or two nights there while I obviously look after DD alone. He'll return to this when able.

I have been working two or three days a week for a while. My hours are limited by drop off and pick up times for nursery, as my work is an hour away. The money I made doing this (before lockdown) didn't really have an impact. By the time unpaid travel expenses etc. If was mainly to get me back into work after maternity. We have one DD. We moved from where we were living when our DD was about 4 months as we weren't cooing without support from family (and also it was difficult to get in the housing ladder where we were).

He pays for everything, including the low mortgage on a house I own from before we married if it's not rented out.

My view is that since we had a child, his salary is family/household money, not "his" money. I can't work full-time as I look after DD two/three days, do 90% of drop.offs and pickups on the days I was working. Stay off 100% of the time off for illness, do 99% of appointments, and do the overnights mentioned above.

I don't think most people in a marriage would feel happy or invested with his attitude. He thinks it's fine because he pays for everything he should - but it's still very much his money.

He also said he didn't want me/I didn't have s right UK make him give details and justify what he spends on what .. probably because I'm more frugal on average than he is and he knows I might be critical/frustrated.

@Peonyonpoint

Thanks for the info/trying to help.

This thread took some getting through.

Op, after reading all of this I 100% agree with your Husbands work colleague, Not only are You spoilt, you are nasty to boot!

@zerofuchsgiven the OP might be acting nasty but don’t think that means she “is” nasty. She sounds depressed & unhappy on her life / marriage, which is manifesting in anger & causing her to lash out at any criticism (IMO). Not sure if this thread will actually help OP tbh, as her headspace doesn’t seem to be ready to accept help

No op while you got your lovely little life I was not sniffing glue behind a shed I was being abused and starved most of the time and yes you are married so its 50 50 of all money honestly I would leave you your attitude is shit just leave your husband he deserves better then u

Hi OP, I've read about half this thread, but it's very long. Apologies if I've missed anything.

I think that in a marriage, all money should be considered family money. My husband and I both earn decent salaries, although I earn more than he does, and we have no children. We each get paid into our own bank accounts and our mortgage and bills go out of a joint account which one or both of us will bung some money into if we think it's getting a bit low. We don't add up who pays for what. Whoever goes to the shops is the one who pays for groceries. (Usually him.) Before coronavirus we used to travel a lot and it was almost always me who paid for flights because I have a frequent flyer account. Sometimes he'd pay for hotels, sometimes I would. Sometimes he'd pay for meals out, sometimes I would. But this was only really to make sure there was never a situation where one of us had loads of money in our bank account and the other had nothing. At no point have we ever attempted to add up who pays for what and make sure it's even because even though we have separate bank accounts we just think of it all as our money, not mine and his.

When there is a large disparity in earnings, and especially when you have children and one person is doing the bulk of the childcare which allows the other person to maximise their earning potential, it is even more important that all money is considered family money. I cannot get my head around the idea that one person in a marriage should be financially better off than the other person. That is not what marriage is about.

And the law agrees with me. If you and your husband were to get divorced, everything each of you owns would be considered family money and divided according to what they think is fair.

However, it strikes me that you're getting a particularly raw deal because you're allowing him to maximise his income, but a larger proportion of the assets (i.e. your rental property) have been paid for by you. That means that whilst you remain married and this situation continues, he gets to keep "his money" to himself, but if you were to divorce, part of "your money" might go to him.

Am I right in thinking your daughter is a toddler and you aren't likely to have any more children? If so I think you probably need to start at least planning to pay for more childcare and finding ways to get your earning capacity back up again. That might mean you aiming to get back to work full-time and paying for wraparound childcare.

Your husband needs to understand that there can be no "it's my money, I earn it", if the reason why you can't earn your own money is because he doesn't do his fair share of the childcare. Part of "his money" is effectively earned by you, because you are facilitating him doing the job he does, by taking on a greater responsibility for a child that is half his. That's why his argument just doesn't stack up. If he wants to have "his money" and "your money" then he needs to understand that you will have to stop facilitating his job and his earning capacity, and prioritising your own.

One more thing. I don't know whether this has been mentioned or not. I'm guessing from your posts that you live in Northern Ireland or Ireland and that's why he has to stay overnight for a few days when he goes to London. Are you quite sure that he doesn't have someone else when he is there? Being secretive about money when he is spending several days a fortnight far away from you would be ringing alarm bells for me. I'm not saying he necessarily is having an affair. But that kind of arrangement requires trust. Trust on both sides, but more on yours, because the person staying in a hotel in London has more opportunities to get up to something they shouldn't than the person staying at home in their small town with their small child. It would be easier for you to trust him if he were open with his finances. Sorry to say it, just something you might want to be bear in mind.

@hamm87 that’s awful, agree the lashing out with comments about spelling / education levels etc is really low but it seems the OP is in pain & lashing out says more about her than you. If you’re 1987 it’s be smoking weeks behind the sheds, not sniffing glue anyway ;)

@vikingwife, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

The tone of ops posts I think are very telling in what kind of person she is in rl. If this is how she acts in person she must be absolutely exhausting to live with.

@hamm87, it’s not a top trumps race to the bottom. If the OP is not happy with her life, she’s not happy with her life. She is entitled to know how much the flipping rates bill is, and if her husband doesn’t tell her he is infantilising her. The very language of ‘spoilt’ is infantilising, it’s something you use for a child not a grown woman who contributes to the family budget by at least earning her own money even if the family dynamic is not to share it, who has also provided a home and an asset to the marriage with they have used and who wants to know her own financial circumstances!

OP don’t be sucked in to arguing with people just for the sake of it.

@peperethecat I agree with much of what you say, an excellent post, but the reality of NI is that hordes of people commute to London weekly, I’ve done it myself and DH does it.

Of course they could all be having an affair, but to be honest the social problems that most obviously emerged for me and friends in same position is that it’s always (mostly) men who get to do it (used to sit in the wee commuter plane with self-satisfied ‘big business men’ manspreading and hogging the armrest every week, to the point where I once had to call the attendant for help when someone wouldn’t move their bag out of my feet space ), it forces even more of the domestic burden onto women, and strengthens what can be quite a patriarchal society anyway.

100% this @peperethecat.

you are nasty to boot!

Only to people who are nasty to me.

Some MN posters manage to make their points civilly whether they are agreeing with the op or not.

Some use this forum to say things in a way that they know would land them in a (probably physical) fight in irl.

If they do that to me, I'll give them shirt thrift.

If they do it to others I often give them shirt thrift too. Though there is so much of it, you would spend your day doing it.

I've seen posters behaving like that when s poster was clearly v vulnerable and low and wondered if they even thought they could push them over an edge. It's disgusting behaviour.

*short

@peperethecat

That's pretty much my view.

He is adamant that he wouldnt want anything from "my" little property in a divorce as I got on the housing ladder alone, renovated it, paid the mortgage for years etc..but who knows what would happen if it came to it. I could forget about my 6k into this house and maybe they might equal any mortgage payments he's made (its probably more, i'd have to check).

(Speaking strictly however - he paid the mortgage when we were both living there with our child when we first moved back to NI so it was our home. (I was still on maternity with a dropping salary, I didn't apply for UC after that and seriously doubt if I'd have got anything with a DH with a good salary). Also he mostly pushed for the house to be left vacant as a backup when renovating this one. And the other period was when he invited me out to ME, I couldn't get work for a while, and had warned him that I couldn't pay the mortgage on my property if I didnt, and he agreed from the beginning that he's cover it so ...).

From my knowledge of him and best judgement/reckoning, I don't think has had or is having an affair.

I think his keeping everything to himself is more to do with his mentality. And also a little bit due to knowing I'm pretty frugal and he's more careless, and he might get some frustrated comments about wasteful spending. He is the sort of person(same as his dad and many men) who'd let his house be like a tip or Spartan (a Spartan tip?) while spending big on hobbies, car, tech etc.

Sorry, I'm waffling now.

@Peonyonpoint

Thank you.

I find it ironic that zero thinks I'd be exhausting and had apparently missed how exhausting any poster might find being attacked on however many fronts at one time, sometimes by posters who haven't even read or understood my posts correctly. If you don't respond, you're accused of not answering posts you don't "like". Likewise you'll be accused of not answering questions they asked you or points they made. You also let incorrect and unfair things stand uncorrected for other posters to come along and take in, who then don't offer the advice they otherwise might have offered.

This happens on so many threads, it's bullying I think. People being keyboard warriors. Exhausting is the right word.

*What you don't know is exactly what he does with some of the money he has left over. And exactly how much money he has left over. And it's driving you crazy.

Every suggestion for taking more control over your own situation has been batted to one side by you as being unfeasible or impossible for one reason or another. So I conclude you don't want to do anything about your own situation. You just want more control over his.*

Vinyl - wrong on both counts (as I wasted my time explaining in my previous response to you).

There, go and see if you can get this post deleted too.

Vimto - that was @.

Uugh autocorrect.

I sense you would like to get divorced but do not want to split your property with him in the event of that. I wonder why you keep referring to it as a “little property” - to minimise it’s value ? Half of a “little” house is still half a house ! Nobody on here would advise a woman to walk away without seeking legal advice & getting what was owed to her in the event of a split.

I think what people find exhausting is the nitpicking aspect of your personality, arguing over the minutiae is frustrating, because you keep missing the overall point of people’s posts.

Also earlier you said you didn’t think you were being nasty but more dry humorous style - now you say you were being nasty...

What is it that would make you happy ? A divorce ? Having joint access to the internet bank account ? More visibility in family finances ? For him to say his money is family money ?

It’s so unclear what you want from this thread...

@Hamm87

...so really you are complaining he said his money and not yours hahahhahahhahhaha legally he gets 50% of your house haha and child maintenance would not cover even your nursery fees so I suggest you get off your high horse...

This is part of the rant you posted ... I don't know how you expect anyone to respond to that in any positive way.

Noone here knows your background, it's an anonymous forum.

If you want to kick off at women you think are lucky, you'll find many many more privileged women on here than me - a girl who bought her 2 bed terrace in a rough area for 43k, did it up herself and hasn't been able to afford to run a car to date.

Are you aware of how many people on here earn high salaries, live in expensive houses, have second homes, have inherited loads of money .. that their problems consist of how to get their kid into Oxford or Cambridge or that Waitrose's quality isn't what it used to be, or which Botox to get?

But apparently I'm worth picking on.

So my DH currently earns a high salary - as per the title of this thread, it's not my money. He has no assets. He'll pay child maintenance til she's a teenager if we split, yes.

You thought I'm an idiot because cm won't cover nursery ; it doesn't have to if I'm a single mum .. so how am I the idiot?

You thought I'm an idiot because I didnt know my DH would get 50.50 of any asset ... But I've already checked with an experienced solicitor abd she said about 25% in these circumstances. I said that in a post; you ignored it. I said it again in response to you, you're still ignoring and still telling me I'm wrong. So you know better than a family law solicitor?

I'm v sorry about your upbringing but if you write posts like these to people who couldn't know anything about it, you're not going to get sweet little responses.

What I mean is it looks like you are nitpicking your husband over the little things, like not knowing what he spends his monthly allowance on (ie the money he has left over after everything is paid for) without appreciating that overall he is financially supporting the family & doesn’t hassle you about how you decide to spend your money.

Do you have anxiety ? That manifests as a need to control people & your surroundings so you feel more at ease.

Do you love him ?

Are you worried he will seek legal advice if you split & have to sell your property ?

You need to face your inner fears head on & tackle these issues.

Gilbert- I think some posters are bored or frustrated in life and so they enjoy slagging off OPs.

just leave your husband he deserves better then u

More of the same.

What do you expect someone's response to be.

Gilbert- I think some posters are bored or frustrated in life and so they enjoy slagging off OPs.

And this isn't even aibu 😉

Back on topic I think the way to go is me back full-time with wraparound childcare.

(Whether we split or don't).

I feel shit at the prospect of someone from Nursery or a child minder having to take DD to gp/hospital due to asthma or something else. If I could get a job in this area I could do it, so I'll start with that as a priority. Won't be the type of work I specialise bin/like bit whatever .. I could change in a few years time.

Hopefully then I can get a car and that will help too.