"It's money, I earn it"

[GilbertMarkham]

This is apparently the way things are in my household/marriage.

I feel think I should know about and have input into the overall financial picture in our household.

Hid opinion is the above.

He thinks that he pays for everything, therefore that's enough/fair .. and that I have no right to know in detail or get involved in the overall finances.

He works full-time in a fairly well paid job. Part of the reason for the good pay is that he works on projects in London, which (before lockdown) required fortnightly stays overnight or two nights there while I obviously look after DD alone. He'll return to this when able.

I have been working two or three days a week for a while. My hours are limited by drop off and pick up times for nursery, as my work is an hour away. The money I made doing this (before lockdown) didn't really have an impact. By the time unpaid travel expenses etc. If was mainly to get me back into work after maternity. We have one DD. We moved from where we were living when our DD was about 4 months as we weren't cooing without support from family (and also it was difficult to get in the housing ladder where we were).

He pays for everything, including the low mortgage on a house I own from before we married if it's not rented out.

My view is that since we had a child, his salary is family/household money, not "his" money. I can't work full-time as I look after DD two/three days, do 90% of drop.offs and pickups on the days I was working. Stay off 100% of the time off for illness, do 99% of appointments, and do the overnights mentioned above.

I don't think most people in a marriage would feel happy or invested with his attitude. He thinks it's fine because he pays for everything he should - but it's still very much his money.

He also said he didn't want me/I didn't have s right UK make him give details and justify what he spends on what .. probably because I'm more frugal on average than he is and he knows I might be critical/frustrated.

God ppl read the thread the OP does not pay childcare he dh does he pays for everything

Nowhere can I see evidence of you being spoilt.

I have been a sham for over nineteen years and dh has worked all that time. It is joint money. He's never once said any of the shit your husband has said. Once he asked me to watch my spending one month as we were a bit short. He has said he couldn't do his job without me doing mine. But then he values my parenting. Your husband does not.

Decide what you want to happen. Tell him. But be sure you have plan B for when he doesn't change otherwise this is your life forever. .

He expects:

• to do his job as before (pre-kids) without making any compromises for childcare responsibilities
• to spend his money exactly as he pleases, on things for himself, without having to share it equally with you or discuss expenditure with you
• for you to accept all of the above without complaining
• for you to be responsible for all childcare (both doing childcare itself and doing all drop offs, pick ups, time off for sick child) thereby making big compromises / sacrifices in your career, fulfilment and financial independence
• for you to "be more affectionate" ie give him more sex.

I think you hit the nail on the head really when you said he is stuck in the 1950s.

What are you getting out of the arrangement? I get the impression that the only thing stopping you from divorcing him is your worry about finances and having to increase your working hours. But surely you'd have more self respect if you did? Independence and full control of your own finances?

I think you're wrong to focus solely on the money and I think it's a reflection of his overall attitude - he doesn't value or respect you as an equal in the marriage.

I wouldn't feel like being affectionate towards someone like that.

Do you want a bank card for his account to use when you want?
Are you wanting him to give you more money? If you need money for something does he just give you it or does he say you've had your allowance and that's it?

The usual mumsnet mantra is either a joint account or equal spending money. ie spare money split 50/50 once essential bills have been paid for.

But "essential" could be up for debate. For example, OP isn't "allowed" a car, it seems, so I expect he would say that his car is essential and hers is not.

I wouldn't be at all happy with it OP. It doesn't indicate that he sees the marriage as an equal partnership ime. You are looking after his child - you could put a monetary value on that maybe and tell him what it is.

But if I also wasn't having sex with my H, (and didn't want to) and he'd also pushed me a couple of times, I would definetly think about leaving.

Maybe your husband feels he pays everything.
He pays all the household bills.
Childcare.
Your mortgage when you can't .
Now your saying you want equal control of the rest of his salary.
If you reversed it so a man was expecting this of a woman , the answers would be that he was using you.
Do you want to split or work it out?

have to offset my half of the mortgage & other household bills.

Not at all. A live in nanny or housekeeper gets salary paid full stop.

If he wants the live in nanny/housekeeper service he has to pay market rates.

Yes is this really about money? Money as a proxy for an equal relationship doesn’t work. Isn’t about the degree of respect you give each other for what you are doing?

I’m setting aside the pushing you describe. That’s a reason not to be with him but one you’ve decided to live with. You might feel differently if you can’t sort out this money point; and hopefully it doesn’t mean you can’t discuss this.

Start looking for a full time job that pays well, also would you be able to WFH at all in what you do?

I would be leaving. He’s thrown you around, squares up to you, you are having intimacy issues, he feels he earns income so it’s all his.

The way to end up being the NRP is to walk out on your husband, you don’t need to give up parental rights. A lot of utter dickhead NRP’s get contact because they walked out and left the RP caring for the DC, you’d have to pay CM which is quite small anyway. And you’d get to pick and choose if and when you want to see your child. But you have to be a special kind or arsehole to do that.

You would need to put your child in childcare or look to a job where you can work compressed hours or WFH or flexi work in a way that allows you to be available for your DC more.

Or you could hang on for a bit till your dc is in full time school and then leave.

Do you want to remain married? Given he is this way, do you think he will change? How?

You sound a little bit defeated.

There are clearly significant cracks in your relationship.

Have you worked out how much spare money he has after paying everything? What do you think he is doing with it? Stashing it away ready for divorce? Addiction to drugs/gambling? Could he be paying child support for a child you know nothing about?

I am trying to think through issues and bresk them down . Separating this was for simplicity and clarity, not in order to be disengenuous ... But thank you for accusing me of being disengenuous anyway. I see this sort of posting time and time again on MN and you really need to wise up and get a civil tongue in your head.

Hi Gilbert. The haters are going to hate. That says more about them than you. There is nothing wrong with separating out issues to ask for advice. Ultimately everything is linked to unless we want chapter and verse of your entire relationship you will have to edit and I think it's clear you did so to aid communication and not to manipulate. Just wanted to show some solidarity as although most posters here have been pleasant and supportive, there's always others who are more interested in showing how clever or superior they are.

Have you worked out how much spare money he has after paying everything? What do you think he is doing with it?

I haven't sat down and gone through it in detail. I don't know the exact amounts of certain things and I suppose that makes me uncomfortable. I could look at letters as he leaves plenty lying around but i feel like i shouldn't have to.

I don't think he had much to spare after mortgage, rates, insurances, utilities, food, credit card payments/loans, car costs erc. (obviously nursery costs are not there at the moment). He implied his pension payments aren't big and that he thinks his pension will be pretty crap. (He started on company pension scheme at about 28 or later (maybe), would have stopped when he left for a couple of years to work abroad and then went back on it (returned to same company).

As I said he was paying mortgage, rates and insurance in my little property from when my nephew stopped until I asked for the payment holiday recently.

He's also been recovering from moving costs (across water obviously) and house buying costs. He paid all costs except deposit I provided from savings. And we got caught with second home stamp duty because of my property (which could be claimed back if it's sold within 3 years I think).

Stashing it away ready for divorce? Addiction to drugs/gambling? Could he be paying child support for a child you know nothing about?

I really really don't think he funds any addictions .. there is no sign of any. He has a beer once in a while and doesn't do drugs; the only addictions I see any sign of are chocolate and FIFA.

Same with the hidden child thing - I really don't think so. He's also not the sort of person to hide something like that (no doubt posters will say their DH wasn't but ...).

Stashing away for divorce or savings ..
Don't know.

@alittlerespectgoesalongway

Thank you.

The way to end up being the NRP is to walk out on your husband, you don’t need to give up parental rights. A lot of utter dickhead NRP’s get contact because they walked out and left the RP caring for the DC, you’d have to pay CM which is quite small anyway. And you’d get to pick and choose if and when you want to see your child. But you have to be a special kind or arsehole to do that.

I think very few women would ever do that, which is why we get fked over, right?

It's not the main reason I would not do it obviously, but added to the emotional/moral factor is that your name would be absolute mud in our society. I think England etc is that bit less traditional/parochial than NI and ROI and I imagine there'd be a lot of judgement of a woman who did that there .. here .. smh. People would gossip about you everywhere you went, possibly ostracise you, if you wanted to start your own business (as many arch techs do) ... forget about custom from large swathes.

I couldn't bear to do it in terms of contact with my DD etc but you'd be a scarlet woman into the bargain.

Actually people would assume you were an alcoholic, a drug addict (less common here), an unfit mother or mentally unstable or something. That would be their only conclusion for how you'd not be RP for your child.

would you be able to WFH at all in what you do?

As I touched on earlier somewhere in the thread; my experience of architecture practices has been that they need workers are flexible and who can do overtime at deadline times. It was quite common to have to work late/all hours/during weekend for deadlines. The industry still seems to be male dominated, especially technicians .. and I get the impression their partners pick up the slack with kids.

If we split I might have some leeway the odd evening and every other weekend, bit it may not line up with when it's needed. If we don't split I honestly don't feel like i can offer the flexibility and deadline push availability that most practices require .. unless I arrange for a child minder or someone to do pickups. It's something i need to look into, though it makes me feel.shitty that on top of putting DD into nursery, she wouldn't even be seeing my face at pickup time.

It's quite random too so your child wouldn't even get consistency in being picked up by someone else .. unless you just arranged and paid someone to do it as standard (unnecessarily as it were).

Why does he have no assets (you say there is no equity in your joint house and you would lose out on divorce) if he is a higher earner and you are in your 40s?

He turned 40 late last year, he's younger.

He worked as a tradesman until 26 (maybe, this going back a while) and like many young tradesmen who are self employed, I don't think he had a personal pension. He also just rented and enjoyed his spare money, he'd take a couple of months off now and then if the weather was good and live off any savings he'd put by.
From when he started seeing me and staying at my house most weekend and holidays, because he was aware that I had costs he didn't have; he usually paid for entertainment, food out or take out etc.
At 26 or so, with my encouragement he decided to change career into a construction profession. I'd suggested he do a part-time course (hnc for example) and keep some income and off he went to speak to a course director, when I was next updated he and the director had somehow decided that a full-time course was the way to go, and he was becoming a full time student. I was somewhat bamboozled & frustrated by it but he was enrolled and fixed in that path. That obviously affected his finances for two or three years. He did get some work from the sandwich year onward but low student salary and his starting salary was not much better. He then climbed but had debts to pay and all the usual costs and didn't have the means to get on the housing ladder before he decided to do a stint in the ME. It's pretty hard to buy there, it's very easy to get drawn into the expat lifestyle there and for various (legitimate) reasons it wasn't the money spinner you mightt expect, I joined him for six months, and we decided to return to the UK for various reasons. We rented and planned to try to save to.get on property ladder but were in an expensive area (we'd have to have moved) and then decided to move back to NI where it would've easier to get on ladder anyway; and did so.

I don't know if he wouldve done it in his own, he's never seemed to make buying a property (in the UK).a priority .. the only thing he said was that he'd like to buy a place in France to retire to.

Sorry for the novel.

Long story short; he earns well now but didn't until recent years, had lots of costs and didn't seem to make buying property, for example, a priority.

Maybe your husband feels he pays everything.
He pays all the household bills.
Childcare.
Your mortgage when you can't .
Now your saying you want equal control of the rest of his salary.
If you reversed it so a man was expecting this of a woman , the answers would be that he was using you.

My memory of the conversation is not precise,bits a while back but has been simmering for me ..but I wouldnt have said "i want equal control of half your money, now!" .. I think i said (in the context of some lively discussion, (perhaps about how much money I'd spent that month, generally it's in stuff for DD, I sometimes feel like he has no clue how toiletries, clothes, toys, activities, food out while at activities etc adds up) that I resented having to account for what I'd spent when I didnt even know/he didn't even share with me the overall picture of our household finances (and what's spent on what), and he responded "no, no it's my money, I earn it".

So he's always been selfish then.
Always expected you to support him and his career.
When he was studying, I suppose you supported him financially?
But now you're raising his child he thinks he's doing you a huge favour by supporting the family?

If you're flatmates, you keep your finances separate, you rent a room each.

If you're in a committed relationship and living together, you pool your resources and live communally (bar the secret running-away-due-to-DA fund that every heterosexual woman should have.)

There is no perfect solution here. You want something to change and he won’t. Bluntly he’s more powerful than you are in financial terms.

You could get divorced and make him pay up. Is that what you want? It sounds to me that you want his respect.

I will say this. Often men who have women build them up are profoundly ungrateful once they do make money. They want to forget your role in it. They don’t like remembering they didn’t do it alone. Your discussion re money is touching on that all the time.

"I resented having to account for what I'd spent when I didnt even know/he didn't even share with me the overall picture of our household finances (and what's spent on what), and he responded "no, no it's my money, I earn it"."

See, I suspected financial abuse at the beginning, and what you've said here confirms it. It's very revealing that he wants you to account for all the money you're spending, but he doesn't want to share information about his own spending - even if it's for family expenses. That is a very obvious double standard. A very clear sign that he feels superior to you, that you're not equals in his eyes. He wants to control you and believes that you have no right to even know what he's doing let alone have a say.

I call financial abuse, I suspected it before and I'm sure of it now.

www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/financial-abuse/

www.verywellmind.com/financial-abuse-4155224