"It's money, I earn it"

[GilbertMarkham]

This is apparently the way things are in my household/marriage.

I feel think I should know about and have input into the overall financial picture in our household.

Hid opinion is the above.

He thinks that he pays for everything, therefore that's enough/fair .. and that I have no right to know in detail or get involved in the overall finances.

He works full-time in a fairly well paid job. Part of the reason for the good pay is that he works on projects in London, which (before lockdown) required fortnightly stays overnight or two nights there while I obviously look after DD alone. He'll return to this when able.

I have been working two or three days a week for a while. My hours are limited by drop off and pick up times for nursery, as my work is an hour away. The money I made doing this (before lockdown) didn't really have an impact. By the time unpaid travel expenses etc. If was mainly to get me back into work after maternity. We have one DD. We moved from where we were living when our DD was about 4 months as we weren't cooing without support from family (and also it was difficult to get in the housing ladder where we were).

He pays for everything, including the low mortgage on a house I own from before we married if it's not rented out.

My view is that since we had a child, his salary is family/household money, not "his" money. I can't work full-time as I look after DD two/three days, do 90% of drop.offs and pickups on the days I was working. Stay off 100% of the time off for illness, do 99% of appointments, and do the overnights mentioned above.

I don't think most people in a marriage would feel happy or invested with his attitude. He thinks it's fine because he pays for everything he should - but it's still very much his money.

He also said he didn't want me/I didn't have s right UK make him give details and justify what he spends on what .. probably because I'm more frugal on average than he is and he knows I might be critical/frustrated.

I was trying to be constructive suggesting counselling but maybe you don't feel it's for you.

I think it would be a really valuable thing to do as you sound very angry and could channel that into making changes that would get you to a happier place.

Sometimes when we are caught up in a difficult situation we are too close to it and can't see how it looks from the outside. Your responses have regularly been disproportionately aggressive.

Your anger and defensiveness is making it hard for people to engage with you, which is why I suggested counselling may help.

If you don't feel like continuing to contribute, please do feel free to concentrate your wisdom on other threads - please.

And this was in response to;

"the more you right, the more sorry I feel for your husband".

But I was supposed to respond with perfect civility to this piece of delicate diplomacy, is that right Backseat?

I remember your other thread about his violence. And this one now too.

OP I think he sounds awful. i personally wouldn't want to be married to him. it doesn't seem that you do either. Why keep trying to persuade yourself?

Your responses have regularly been disproportionately aggressive.

They haven't been aggressive - if people want to give out a little verbal spanking, they can expect one back.

If they can't be bothered to read a thread, skim read, latch onto phrases, attribute things I've said about my husband's behaviour to me "you say you're frugal but you spent loads doing up your house and you will only eat of of certain shops!!".

No I didn't, and no I didn't; that was my husband ...

That becomes extremely frustrating after a while. And that poster wrote a team of that stuff. Half a page of things she'd not read properly. And she's still at it on here, forcing me to explain why I thought two twenty something guys in casual nibs weren't suitable tenants.

Is she trying to help me?
The fk she is.

*ream
*jobs

(incidentally two twenty something guys in casual jobs in a town where heavy drinking and dope use is rife).

Oh and backseat you've also separated out quotes from one post I wrote (to the poster who wrote "hahahahahahahaha!!!") with the seeming intention of making it look like I wrote the comments to more than one poster.

I'm sorry you didn't like it when I didn't agree with one if your contributions.

I usually find your posts reasonable and as you know you have thanked me by pm for backing you up in other threads, but I didn't agree with that one.

There's no need to compile lists of quotes of me clapping back at rude posters who haven't read the thread etc. to make a point.

Perhaps this is the sort of thing people should discuss and come to an agreement on before marrying/ having children.

My husband and I have fairly separate finances (a joint account for household/kids stuff which we contribute to proportionate to income) but essentially what is left over is our own personal money and we like it that way.

My husband made clear that when we decided to have children that he was happy to split the cost of raising them but not willing to also financially support me. This was fine by me and I'm glad he was honest about it. I went back to work full time. We now have two children and I earn more than him so I also have more money in my ordinal account. Don't get me wrong, I do share substantial amounts of it with the family in the form of paying for house improvements, holidays etc. But I DO consider it my money because I earned it. If my husband asked me to account for my spending or to have access to it as if it was joint I would tell him to buck up and get a better job if he wanted more money!

You might consider it "family money" but your husband doesn't and that's his opinion. He's not financially abusing you, that's for sure!

Your anger and defensiveness is making it hard for people to engage with you, which is why I suggested counselling may help

No, it isn't.

I've engaged with posters who aren't offensive, who can read etc. just fine. I've really appreciated all the perspectives and advice.

Even if they are uncomfortable. Before you go for the classic "you only engage with posters who say what you want to hear" classic line.

Oh and backseat you've also separated out quotes from one post I wrote (to the poster who wrote "hahahahahahahaha!!!") with the seeming intention of making it look like I wrote the comments to more than one poster.

Goodness. I really, really haven't done anything with a subtext / underlying intention.

You've said yourself you usually find my posts reasoned and that I've taken the time to thank you before regarding other threads.

So I'm surprised you would think that I have done something like that with an underlying intention / ulterior motive to make you look bad. I absolutely haven't.

I've shared my personal opinion that you're too angry to talk about this subject in a constructive way at the moment and that counselling would help you work through it.

Good luck.

Perhaps this is the sort of thing people should discuss and come to an agreement on before marrying/ having children.

Yes, we probably didn't discuss it in enough depth before DD arrived.

I also think a lot of primary parents overvalue their contribution in monetary terms. As a PP said you aren't earning half a high salary just by looking after your own children. A lot of the "earned benefit" is in form of the quality time you spend with your children and not having the stress and worry of full time nursery if that's not what you want.

I'm a high earner and I haven't had a primary parent "enabling" me to work and earn. My children's other parent has a full time job himself.

forcing me to explain - no, no-one is forcing you to do anything. Just ignore what you think isn't helpful. Same with my post - I set out how I perceived your problem, and gave my observations about how you can work on that problem, by optimizing your income - there's zero need for you to come back with minute details about why you haven't done those things already. Just take the advice, or, ignore if you don't agree with it.

Can I suggest not nitpicking others' spelling mistakes, posting style, etc. while they're here contributing to your thread. Your posting style on this forum is one of the most annoying going - dozens of fragmented, mostly-irrelevant-detail posts, with extensive typos followed by a volley of *corrections, your posts regularly clog up threads. But mostly, folk just let you get on with it, or ignore you if necessary... you can do the same...

I really, really haven't done anything with a subtext / underlying intention.

Fine, you haven't.

You seem like a good person from your posts throughout the forum, so I'll say I've clearly git that wrong.

However I still don't know why you've felt the need to bold quote three posts of mine clapping back at rude posters who hadn't read things properly - when there were dozens of examples of posts of me interacting civilly with posters, then label me aggressive, then suggest counselling.

Your posting style on this forum is one of the most annoying going - dozens of fragmented, mostly-irrelevant-detail posts, with extensive typos followed by a volley of corrections, your posts regularly clog up threads*

And you regularly annoy, offend, chase off (intentionally or not) posters who need help.

It's so notable I know your username from doing it and I rarely note anyone's username unless they pm me to thank me for something.

But my corrections etc are clearly more important than the help I give people, and reading their posts carefully.

I suggested counselling because you're going through an incredibly tough time, your husband isn't communicating with you in a way that is working for either of you, you are not happy with your set up as it stands and
I think counselling is a really valuable way of working through these things constructively.

There's no shame in counselling, suggesting it wasn't a dig it was a constructive suggestion. I'm not the kind of person to take cheap shots so it was a genuine suggestion.

You have come across as very defensive, angry and aggressive to me on this thread. Maybe that perception is wrong but that's how it's come across to a number of people, myself included, on this thread.

I specifically mentioned one of my posts that I've always agreed with you on other threads because I didn't want you to think I think terribly of you in general or painting you in a bad light on purpose.

I wouldn't have mentioned that if I was just being mean for the sake of it or trying to make you look bad.

Backseat - I think by this point our little "Real Housewives of wherever", "i didn't mean a,b, or c, I'm think you're a nice person" derail is probably boring people - including ourselves, so we'll just say no hard feelings and move on.

I doubt that I need counselling to decide if I can accept that my DH doesn't see part or all of his income (I think he was referring to the part after he'd paid out our joint household expenses, but maybe I'm giving him too much credit there) as family/household money.

There have been lots of varied and interesting perspectives on this anyway and thank you to everyone who posted.

Ideally couples pool money and there's no conflict but isn't possible for all, a set amount paid into a joint account based on earnings is a good alternative

Backseat - I think by this point our little "Real Housewives of wherever", "i didn't mean a,b, or c, I'm think you're a nice person" derail is probably boring people - including ourselves, so we'll just say no hard feelings and move on.

Blimey, your tone really is sneery and not nice on this thread.

I don't care if you think I'm nice or not, I cared that you accused me of having ulterior motives when I'm just responding to a thread on MN with no agenda.

My counselling suggestion was, as is obvious, to talk about everything going on with you at the moment. Because you've shared a number of issues about the relationship. I obviously haven't said go to counselling to focus on one sentence your husband has said and nothing else.

As I said, good luck!

You're absolutely right OP, I can be aggressive. I recently got similar feedback and I have been working on myself in this area. I try my best, sometimes my best isn't great but I will keep on.

I agree with BackseatCookers that counselling will really help you. That's not an insult, I have had counselling many times. I think anyone with a partner who has assaulted and intimidated them is probably best off seeking counselling, your financial niggles are probably a red herring in any case.

Blimey, your tone really is sneery and not nice on this thread.

It wasn't meant to be, it was meant to be sort of dryly humourous. I clearly missed the mark or we're sorely missing not being able to see someone's face.

Clearly. Good luck with everything.

You're absolutely right OP, I can be aggressive. I recently got similar feedback and I have been working on myself in this area. I try my best, sometimes my best isn't great but I will keep on.

Wow that's very honest and .. I can't think of the right word, but very impressive.

Fwiw my posting style is partly the way it is because I usually have a rambunctious toddler climbing over my head.

Plus I am a verbal rambler who is also trying to stop doing it.

@BackseatCookers
I commend your persistence, I gave up a while back!

@worriedmama1980

Sorry I previously missed your post in the midst of all the posts flying around. Thank you for writing such a comprehensive and measured post.