"It's money, I earn it"

[GilbertMarkham]

This is apparently the way things are in my household/marriage.

I feel think I should know about and have input into the overall financial picture in our household.

Hid opinion is the above.

He thinks that he pays for everything, therefore that's enough/fair .. and that I have no right to know in detail or get involved in the overall finances.

He works full-time in a fairly well paid job. Part of the reason for the good pay is that he works on projects in London, which (before lockdown) required fortnightly stays overnight or two nights there while I obviously look after DD alone. He'll return to this when able.

I have been working two or three days a week for a while. My hours are limited by drop off and pick up times for nursery, as my work is an hour away. The money I made doing this (before lockdown) didn't really have an impact. By the time unpaid travel expenses etc. If was mainly to get me back into work after maternity. We have one DD. We moved from where we were living when our DD was about 4 months as we weren't cooing without support from family (and also it was difficult to get in the housing ladder where we were).

He pays for everything, including the low mortgage on a house I own from before we married if it's not rented out.

My view is that since we had a child, his salary is family/household money, not "his" money. I can't work full-time as I look after DD two/three days, do 90% of drop.offs and pickups on the days I was working. Stay off 100% of the time off for illness, do 99% of appointments, and do the overnights mentioned above.

I don't think most people in a marriage would feel happy or invested with his attitude. He thinks it's fine because he pays for everything he should - but it's still very much his money.

He also said he didn't want me/I didn't have s right UK make him give details and justify what he spends on what .. probably because I'm more frugal on average than he is and he knows I might be critical/frustrated.

Someone said how much Mumsnet hate men.
I really think it sounds like you hate your husband.
The man seems to pay for everything, which you agreed.
You keep any money you earn, he is willing to cover you any time your short, so no he isn't financially abusing you.
He earns enough to eat food from shops he prefers, and says put it on the credit card.
Gives you spending money each month.
You say he helps with your child.
But because you can't oversee his bank account, but don't like accounting for the money you spend, he is the only one in the wrong.
As people have pointed out maybe you just need to leave. Take his £450 a month and be worse off but not have to account to anyone.

Bottom line is he is legally right, it is his money. He needs to legally support his child, but that’s it. Spousal support on a divorce is now rare. You’d get your share of rhe assets and savings. He’d have to pay towards his kid, but it’s not a given he’d have to keep paying for you.

So yes, legally his earnings is his money, your right to any of it, is low, and may be rejected by a court, don’t confuse child support with spousal support.

@Rainycloudyday

I'm just getting around to responding to your posts now - thank you for taking the time to write a comprehensive rundown or whatever.

When I think about each point you outlined for splitting childcare equally, I imagine the response - which is "I couldn't do that/that wouldn't be feasible".

(He could perhaps, if given enough notice, arrange his fortnightly or so trips to London so as not to clash with any time away I might require. But I can imagine things dropping up where he had no flexibility in his trips. Also it's not likely to be much of a requirement for architecture jobs .. we usually work in the region the office is in).

If I pushed for compromises to make childcare stuff equally divided in the case of us both working FT, I have a strong feeling that the "I have a bigger salary, I'm the main bread winner," etc. would feature.

And what can I do about that - the average salary for NI is 25K I believe. Salaries are lower outside Belfast where he commutes to. He gets what he gets because he's Belfast based and because they take contracts in London and the SE.

The solicitor I spoke to, when I said I'd be extremely lucky to get a ft job on high twenties; that one had been advertised in town for 30 for an arch technician and the competition would be cutthroat .. she said "tell me about it, I'd be very lucky to make 30, high 20s too". She's a flipping solicitor, in her 40s.

I'm not going to be able to get near his salary and I doubt he'll ever see that we should split childcare arrangements equally because I wouldn't be contributing the most.

(Just to be accurate, he also gets what he gets because he's in an undersupplied construction profession, and is driven).

don't like accounting for the money you spend

I would have no problem accounting for how my "allowance" got spent, with a spreadsheet if necessary, bit I resent doing it when I don't even know the overall picture of incomings and outgoings in our household. It's like being a junior employee etc. Transparency from me but opacity from "above" from him

I don't even know the overall picture of incomings and outgoings in our household

You've painted a very good picture in here of the household finances - your husband pays for pretty much everything.

What you don't know is exactly what he does with some of the money he has left over. And exactly how much money he has left over. And it's driving you crazy.

Every suggestion for taking more control over your own situation has been batted to one side by you as being unfeasible or impossible for one reason or another. So I conclude you don't want to do anything about your own situation. You just want more control over his.

I don't see his issue with saying that his earnings are his money. They are. It's not like he says his money is his and you are barely able to get by because he keeps money back from you. He even pays the mortgage sometimes for your rental property, which he doesn't have to do. If he was being funny about money he could tell you to sort it out yourself. Then you'd have to take on a more responsible attitude to it.

Also, the way to stop feeling like an employee is to have your own financial autonomy.

What you don't know is exactly what he does with some of the money he has left over.

No, what I don't know exactly is the mortgage, rates, insurance, utilities, car, memberships, credit cards/loans etc etc. I particularly feel uncomfortable not knowing the latter. I can estimate other stuff but why should I have to, why is a separate thing I don't need to know. I live in this household as one of the spouses/partners.

Unless I thought he was truly being c wasteful or extravagant with spare money I wouldn't give a fk what he's sending it on ... I din't mind him treating himself (beyond real extravagance), he works hard and us good to us so why would I.

As to batting aside every suggestion - I'm currently looking at the feasibility for me to.commute to Belfast for work to get a better salary and more opportunities ....

What a refreshing change - to be defending myself , yet again, against a vitriolic inaccurate diatribe from another poster like you.

he could tell you to sort it out yourself. Then you'd have to take on a more responsible attitude to it.

He likes having it as a backup property for when work is being done to this house. He doesn't care about paying the mortgage, he thinks it's small change.

And yes, if he didn't take that attitude, I would be on it re. rental.

the way to stop feeling like an employee is to have your own financial autonomy.

I feel our DD will suffer from me working ft and possibly not doing pickups a d drop offs. That's my main concern.

I don't particularly enjoy child care, I'd rather be working outside the home.

That means nothing to you of course, livekt to have such detachment.

And it means nothing to him, just that I'm not equal because I don't work ft. But then I won't be equal even if I do because I won't warn anywhere near what he does.

Also he will moan and there'll be tension if I gave to work outside hours for deadlines, as is common in my job.

Again, that's nothing to you but an excuse, because I don't want to change anything and just want to nosey into and control my dh's spending money.

It's driving me so crazy not knowing what his spending money is and what he's spending it on - yeaaah.

(I can tell you - football boots, business self help books, football autobiographies, overpriced skincare, gadgets, 100 delivery pizzas a month, and copious amounts of chocolate).

You did this on the last thread too GilbertMarkham where it seems like you contradict yourself a lot, kind of paint him in a certain way, if someone agrees you backtrack or say it's not that bad.

It's like you want an excuse to leave but don't want to leave.
Yes it would be great if he said the words "that's our money" and meant it..but you can't make him do that, and obviously neither can we.

You're not the only person in this situation, you correctly point out that he wouldn't have to do 50/50 of the childcare and could just pay x amount of maintenance. Unfortunately that's the reality of it, and so many other mothers on here and mothers that you know in real life have had to go through it. Women do get the short straw in terms of earning potential generally, especially after a break up because they have to do the majority of the child care.

If you want to leave him just leave him!

But do you co own the house or are you not on the mortgage of your home at all? If you are, could you not find out pretty easily what the rates are? Do you not need to be on the bill as another adult in the house?

You did this on the last thread too GilbertMarkham where it seems like you contradict yourself a lot, kind of paint him in a certain way, if someone agrees you backtrack or say it's not that bad.

I honestly don't grasp what relevance what you have just said has to the response I gave to the pleasant poster above. She wasn't agreeing his attitude is unfair - to the contrary, and I wasnt saying it's ok.

I'm totally confused by what point you trying to make.

As for contradictory, there hasn't been the slightest intention of painting him any way, followed by another way. I've tried to.give pertinent facts, to outline the situation .. then responded to questions or comments with more information.

If you find it contradictory I imagine it's because people can be a big bunch of varying, contradictory qualities/characteristics.

I think you should both be able to talk about finances, just because he makes more than you doesn't mean you shouldn't be involved in making any financial decisions.

@Peonyonpoint

I am on it.

Re. Rates, letter comes in in his name. He set it up.

Perhaps website gives rateable value and you can work it out.

It would be good to have the overall picture but the amount of credit cards and loans and what they are being used for would be of more concern.

He wouldn't want me knowing that because he knows I'm debt averse , and I imagine he might be sheepish about how much he chose to spend on a prestige brand car etc.

Yeah okay that is really weird that he would be averse to you knowing what the flipping rates bill is! (Council tax equivalent for all ur non NI people). I’m pretty sure that if he didn’t pay it you’d be liable for it! (Or is that just how council tax works).

Sorry, did you say you are or aren’t on the mortgage?

I would start there, with the bills you are likely to be legally responsible for. He surely cannot feel justified in saying ‘no darling, you shall never know what the bills are!’ (Or a good way of telling if he just wants a bit of privacy over his discretionary spending, or is being a controlling twat).

I am trying to focus on helpful suggestions for you rather than any criticisms. From what you have said, it seems to me that the money-is-power dynamic is strong in your relationship, which would frustrate the hell out of me. Two great books that helped me restablish my finances independently after the car crash of having kids were There Meaningful Money Handbook and I Can Teach You To Be Rich (the latter sounds horrific but it’s written by a young Indian-American guy for twenty somethings). I found this helpful (even though I used to have a big finance element to my job) because tbh my income had descended to post-student like levels and I had got into the mindset of thinking it was barely worthwhile managing my few paltry pennies compared to my DHs. And with knowledge/organisation/solvency comes great power in itself.

I could look at letters as he leaves plenty lying around

Problem solved.

Also, if you got a bank account that was from the same provider as your mortgage (if you are on it?) then it’s possible with online banking that you would see how much your mortgage balance is and what the repayments are.

So you can work out quiet a lot of bills.
There are several sites that will tell you what's, rates, water and utilities are for a house like yours.
Same with the car go have a look at buying one online.
You know his take how pay on 65k, there is a site for that.
You know food bills, because you buy it.
You know how much he gives you in allowance.
If you just look into all this you can pretty much know your out goings, then if you use the credit card check the balance, you can see how much he pays each month, as the balance will go down.
I don't think he sees you as an employee, I think that your feeling this way because things have changed, maybe you need to rethink your own views.

Listentotaxman.co.uk for salary take home.

Don’t get me wrong, I can’t believe you have to do it like this, but needs clearly must!

Here’s a link to the Martin lewis spreadsheet, it’s already formatted. It would help you see what is likely left over. If you chose to do a version for yourself, it would let you play around with taxi/train costs versus car ownership etc as there are sections for all of that.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/Budget-planning/

Okay, I’m sure that is enough advice from me! Good luck.

His actions show that he does actually think of his money at least partly as family money, I think. He pays childcare, he pays expenses for you, he pays for the family home: all these are family expenses. So his actions speak louder than his words. He's not like some who say "it's my money" and actually want to give nothing to children or partner.

I can see why the lack of openness is annoying, though. The answer to "it's nothing to do with you" is - well actually it is, because it affects my credit rating/I'd be liable if you couldn't pay/if the worst happened to you, I'd need to sort stuff out."