How much should we tolerate 'blokey'/sleazy male behaviour?

[NoMoreDickheads]

So, I agree nowadays with the poster on another thread who was given the creeps by a bloke she knew drunkenly saying while messaging as a friend that he would like to see her naked. I have blocked men for less, even for variations on 'hello beautiful' on messenger.

But I imagine that a lot of people would have a 'blokes will be blokes' attitude to stuff like that, and expect men to try and get sex or pics out of women, to make sexual talk and so on.

How much would you put up with this sort of thing from friends,, prospective partners, or boyfriends etc?

Opening with 'hello beautiful' gets a massive eye roll from me and won't be responded to.
I'm happy not to tolerate that type of behaviour.

When I was a young woman, this sort of shit was the norm.
I hated it then, but didn’t have a shark cage. I acquired one over the years, thank heavens, alongside some social changes and second wave feminism.
Now I'm old and invisible and or maybe the distant stare helps, and I don't get sleazed on.
I hope the type of men who do this are slapped down by women, rather than them finding it flattering, or god help us, normal.

Haha. In a bar, a man saying "hello beauitful" is so clearly a chat up line I'm amazed anyone would think it's a way of expressing "admiration". Chat up lines, old school - pre social media etc - were generally a bit sleazy and obvious. Sometimes, you might go with them because the man was attractive or because he made the line in a way that meant he knew, and you knew, it was a line and a joke. But you'd have been pretty silly to think it was truly real in any sense.

In days of social media and OLD surely it's similar? Hello Beautiful on an OLD site would, to me, be a complete line and I'd roll my eyes (in the imaginary world where I even know how to do OLD after 15 years with DH! ) I wouldn't necessarily find it offensive but I'd struggle to take any man with such an opening seriously.

I think comments about appearance, sex etc are often sleazy and inappropriate and agree that lots of men who seem perfectly nice and normal do it in a "bloke banter" kind of way. I can't say any of those men are men I particularly want to spend any time with, in any way whatsoever.

“Hello beautiful” makes my skin crawl. It’s sleazy and over familiar.

If we have no history at all of any romantic relationship, it’s very presumptuous and assumes you want to develop a more romantic relationship with them. From someone I knew but had never been romantically involved with, if they were interested in taking it further all I’d expect was a “hi MoonBaby, how are you?” Followed by perhaps some questions about what I’d been up to, a good show or film he’d watched recently and wondering if I’d seen it, or if I’d tried a new restaurant, something like that. Something that shows interest in me as a person rather than just objectifying me.

Just treat the other person like an actual human being. It’s not hard.

“I'm happily married and have been for years, I'm also pushing 50,....”

Not sure how that is relevant? Except perhaps to highlight that you are an older, potentially more conservative person, thus the antiquated idea of “dates”.

“I've been around long enough to say with complete confidence that the only response to that opening line is 'fuck off'. “

Wow. the only response to “hello beautiful” is to say “fuck off”. You must be joking. Sounds like you have a chip the size of a tree on your shoulder.

I don't and never have. I've always been the one being manhandled out of clubs for lamping guys who grabbed my arse or causing awkwardness in the office for telling everyone to stfu.

Actually it's difficult. I don't want this stupid snappy terrier type image but I just fucking can't stand that stupid shite and I don't know how other women put up with it.

@PlanDeRaccordement I’m in my early 30s and find “hello beautiful” sleazy too. It’s nothing to do with age.

Like I said, it’s really not hard to send someone a few lines showing some interest in them as a person. Takes all of a minute longer.

Yes, I know “hello beautiful” is a chat up line. I just think it is not sleazy and doesn’t warrant an automatic blocking/ghosting or a “fuck off” response.

I was saying it is flirting and in flirting you use admiring comments. If “hello beautiful” is sleazy, then might as well say “fuck off” to all flirting.

Can't believe anyone would find "hello beautiful" in any way attractive. Pass me the puke bucket, you know he's said that to every woman in the bar already.

Some nice eye contact, and a timely offer of a drink or a phone number request, then politely fucking off if the answer is no, surely.

At least start the relationship off from a place of mutual respect if you want any hope of it being a decent one.

Of course it's sleazy and lazy. You can flirt without resorting to tripe like that.

"Antiquated ideas of dating"

When on earth in history do you think women in their 50s were dating when they were young?! .

I think you're mistaking tolerant for low rent.

Moonbaby,
“It’s nothing to do with age.”
Completely agree. I asked Hairyhands why her age (pushing 50) was relevant because whether something is sleazy has nothing to do with age.

“not hard to send someone a few lines showing some interest in them as a person.”
Yes, I’m not saying that a man saying “hello beautiful” has me at his beck and call. There’d have to be a lot more conversation before I’d agree to meet up or anything. My point is that a man saying “hello beautiful” is not so offensive to me that the only thing to do is to block/ghost him or say “fuck off” in response.

“think you're mistaking tolerant for low rent.”

Ah, so you’re slut shaming me now? First I’m called a “simpering fool” by a poster, and now this.

It seems a low bar.

None at all.

Antiquated ideas of dating along with 'conservative' is very funny Plan, I'm pushing 50 not 500. The only reason I mentioned my age is because you suggested I might be 'projecting'.

I had the same attitude to sleazy men in my teens and 20s too, I've always had extremely low tolerance for that kind of bullshit, and that's not because I have a chip on my shoulder, it's because I have a very strong sense of self and can see it for what it is.

Which is why all my exes (bar one), were lovely blokes and not tossers.

@PlanDeRaccordement

May be it's because I'm working class and perhaps the world I live in is different from many in here who seem to be middle class live in affluent areas etc but I agree, some of the examples on here are just bizarre to class them as sleazy! I've got more important things to worry about.

Men should be pulled up for pervy sleazy behaviour, but I think we should be careful what we consider the definition to be. Genuinely okay guys that may have just used outdated language shouldn't be thrown in with dirty sleazy guys undressing us with their eyes...or texts.

Plan, I apologise for the low rent crack.

I do think that being tolerant of over-familiar and cheesy/sleazy behaviour from men is a mistake, tho.

Honestly, I used to try and rescue my friends from blokes like this when we were younger, it seems that women who are desperate for attention (and there are many reasons for this, that mostly stem from less than ideal childhoods or very traditional families with rigid sex-based roles, I'm NOT blaming anyone for being vulnerable to dickheadry) are the ones who fall for this crap and end up in shitty relationships. I've seen it, I know. So it's the thin end of the wedge really. No man, with anything about him, who you would want to invest your time and energy in would use this line. Not one.

Yes Hairyhands, I agree you do have an “extremely low level of tolerance”

As I’ve been saying, I am simply more tolerant and things you find to be sleazy, I think of as harmless flirting. That’s ok, you are free to find specific statements sleazy and equally I am free to find those statements not sleazy.

That doesn’t make me any less sure of myself than you. I do tend to not make snap judgements about people. I can’t decide if a man is decent or not on the sole basis of a “hello beautiful” versus a “would you like a date” like you say you can (which I called projection and jumping to conclusions). It’s all just words looking to make a connection. Whether a man is decent or not takes a lot more of getting to know them.

Then we shall agree to differ Plan, I wish you luck with your endeavours!

@VikVal81
Thank you. Your post sums up my clumsy series of posts beautifully.
We do need to be careful how we define sleazy. If anything because we have to communicate what we mean by “sleazy men” when teaching our daughters how to handle such situations.

@ilikeyourhairyhands
I agree with a lot of your points.
I had an abusive neglectful childhood and many of my relationships have been with sleazy cheats. I didn’t pick up on things that other people might and have had a lot of issues with boundaries.
I also have learned boundaries as an adult and am getting much better at shutting shit down.
There are lots of women in my social group who tolerate unbelievable amounts of shit from men and sometimes it does leave me questioning why I am single after putting up yet another boundary whilst others are in ltrs with absolute sleazebags and sometimes are shocked that I end relationships for what I think is abhorrent behaviour! It’s almost as though I’m coming from another planet from them.
I also have friends who have strong boundaries and higher standards and I’m finding that as I’m older I’m much more drawn to those friends.

“Plan, I apologise for the low rent crack.”

Thank you category12.

*Today 10:35 PlanDeRaccordement

“I'm happily married and have been for years, I'm also pushing 50,....”

Not sure how that is relevant? Except perhaps to highlight that you are an older, potentially more conservative person, thus the antiquated idea of “dates”.*

Hahahahaha @PlanDeRaccordement I am also pushing fifty, I am certainly not conservative by anybody’s standards and I am pretty sure that my experience of dating is in accordance with most others.
You might be surprised to know that people our age were coming of age in the early rave days and at the latter end of the acid house era, I don’t have many people in my circle who aren’t broad minded and very liberal in many ways.
It still doesn’t mean that we have to accept puerile and lazy attempts to flirt with us.