My 9 year old daughter hits us, punches us, kicks us, screams at us, and i dont know what to do :(

[JuatWantAdvice506]

Hello, seeking some advice. I feel lost.
My 9 year old daughter is amazing at school, as far as we know she gets on with her work and plays well with her friends.
But at home, it's like a whole different child.

She can be amazing and lovely and so funny. But even before lockdown, she had moments of lashing out but since lockdown it's been everyday.
Me and dp have been punched, kicked in the knees, she pulls her fists up at us, she punches me in the head multiple times,
She will hold us down and swing her hands around our necks like a monkey. When we try and get her off us or move her hands away to stop her punching us, she claims we hurt her and that she'll tell school, when we don't.
I just dont know what to do :( i filmed her backlash tonight which resulted in her trying to snatch my phone and try and hide it. I just feel like a useless mum and i broke down crying as she was punching me in the head the other day.
They happen for no reason as far as I see. Afterwards, I sit her down and tell her i love her and ask why she has done this and she said she doesn't know. We've tried to find other solutions like drawing, writing, punching pillows, behaviour charts, but she just always resorts to being violent.
She ripped the behaviour chart off the wall, she's smashed about 3 tablets by throwing them in a temper.

I just dont understand. Her sister is 7 and doesnt behave this way. Me and dp hardly fight and if we did, we'd never be violent to each other. It's getting us both down.
Any tips? And thank you in advance!

@nicky7654

@MyBlueMoonbeam oh shut up! Children need disapline not rewards for bad behaveour!!! Suppose your would prefer her fed tablets instead lol be and labelled!! Lol idiots!!

You clearly have no fucking idea what you are talking about - I have 30 years experience working with children with all types of special needs - physical emotional & intellectual and have a son with Dyslexia Dyscalculia Dyspraxia HFA and OCD -
I feel highly qualified to ignore your moronic posts - oh & I can spell correctly too

Has she ever had any trauma? Bereavement, illness, hospitalisation, you being hospitalised, trauma in uterine... Anything?

This sounds like it might be a manifestation of trauma or interrupted early development or similar.

Take a look at the Facebook group called Therapeutic Parenting or look for Sarah Naish on youtube.

I see this kind of behaviour in DD, and a therapeutic approach has worked wonders. (It’s made life tolerable where previously, it was not.)

Quite often it means saying things like ‘I can see you’re angry, would you like a cuddle?’ which can take enormous reserves of patience on your part but like I say, it’s worked wonders here.

I have had a similar experience and a recent diagnosis of autism has been given in the teen years. This is much more likely to happen later on with girls, due to the masking mentioned by PPs. Due to the current situation, it is possible that the things that help your daughter to self- regulate have been abruptly removed from her life, including perhaps things like her regular routines, sleep patterns, after - school exercise, clubs etc, not enough time outside. ... Girls who mask, are academic performers, behave well at school and don’t have learning difficulties, speech -delay and other co-morbid spectrum conditions like ADHD are often not diagnosed until quite late. It is likely that the emotional/ communication/ sensory demands ( e. g TheThursday night saucepan banging) and general stress and worry that we are feeling inLockdown Life has overwhelmed her and led to some of the behaviours that you are seeing. Contact your GP and you yourself can do a CAMHS referral. Good luck - I’ve been where you are and a diagnosis has helped.

@nicky7654

oh shut up! Children need disapline not rewards for bad behaveour!!! Suppose your would prefer her fed tablets instead lol be and labelled!! Lol idiots!!

It's funny you seem to think your opinion on this is superior when your posts like the above are perfect examples of childish tantrums.

Everyone knows mature and sensible adults say things like "lol idiots!!"

Such a bizarre attitude.

I think @fallfallfall post up above has some really helpful strategies I also agree with the advice to see your go sooner rather than later
It would appear from what you’ve said that forms that f negativity affect your daughter saying ‘no’ not being able to complete work etc I would suggest putting in place a routine as best you can, routines can always be broken but they are definitely helpful the other suggestion I would make is to try not to use the word ‘no’ it can have deeper meaning for children and it might help not to use it

No OP my son has not been diagnosed with anything, really long wait and not enough doctors, so only kids with issues in school are tested near me.
I spent 3hrs trying to get him to write an essay for English yesterday he said he knew what to do just not how to write it. So his theory was writing nothing was better than turning in a little bit as it would look like he hadn't tried🙄. I had to stand over him this morn and he wrote half a page with my help, he is in top set English!

I notice some people saying filming is wrong, but in our case he was so polite, helpful and friendly at school and with everyone else our only witness was my mum. So school couldn't back what we were saying when early help spoke with them. But I could show them what we were dealing with daily, I was so concerned for his mental health and on occasions his physical health. He seemed so distressed always anxious, I kept saying to them 'i just want him to speak with someone to help him understand this.'
I just think now at least we asked for help, there is a medical record of this, if he has issues as an adult it shows it's not something new.

My eldest has Down's and I've worked with children with ASD so I have some knowledge of SEN. But my 13yr old only seems happy when he is left to do only what he wants, when he wants, and God forbid if he is bored. So those strategies never worked, that's why to me he fit PDA better.

So she’s perfectly fine at school but acts like this at Home? Broken three tablets and gets a new one. Seems pretty obvious that she sees that her actions have no consequences and if the two of you aren’t on the same page is it surprising that she’s taking advantage? Take away devices and all privileges and I’m sure her behaviour will magically improve. But you have to work as a team and be consistent. If her behaviour is the complete opposite then she’s choosing to behave this way at home.

I have to admit autism was my first thought only because it reminds me of my daughter. She masked her autism by copying her sister/friends but by 7 she couldn't do it without lashing out at home.
She used to hit, kick, hit out at the walls, head bang and it was scary. We used to get behind h her, hold her arms down by crossing our arms across her and wait until she calmed down. Sending her to her room was no help as she'd keep hurting herself.
You and your DP need to be consistent because regardless of whether she has additional needs or not you are sending her mixed messages. Talk to your partner because it's not normal behaviour for a 8 year old. I think he knows that and is in denial because a lot of men like to think that their children are "normal."
It's good you got video evidence and the GP will take it seriously. Unfortunately there are usually long waiting lists for referral which might take even longer now but I'd get the ball rolling as soon as possible.

Oh Sweet Jesus I give up - this thread is winding me up too much - the bloody ignorance of some people is mind numbing

Please get a referral OP

Hi OP. I have PM'd you

Rule number one: parents MUST back each other up over sanctions - even if they disagree this must not be in the presence of the child.

A discussion needs to take place when the child is not there - parents need to agree on sanctions and enforce these and always, always support each other in front of the child.

She needs to know that if she behaves in this way her parents will take exactly the same approach.

None of my children have ever behaved in this way because they knew they would face a joint brick wall if they did. But I do have relative's children who have done this in spite of the united front and ASD was found to be the root of the problem. So I do think you need outside advice.

Please be assured this behaviour is absolutely not normal and you need help to deal with this.

Sorry to sound so blunt, but this cannot go on for all your sakes and you have all my sympathy in the difficult situation in which you find yourselves. But it is NOT YOUR FAULT!!

It's not normal behaviour for a nine year old at all. Your gp would definitely take it seriously.

You’ve had a lot of good advice here Op. An assessment is probably worth it. Even just to rule things out.
A couple of things that struck me.
You and your Dp need to be on the same page about what is and is not acceptable behaviors and consequences. Especially for breaking things. And then you have to stick to those consequences. Like glue.
Praise for good behavior.
Also when she is attacking you - maybe you might benefit from learning some basic self defense moves or moving away from her if she looks like she will hurt you. I also wonder what is you Dp doing to defend you when she is attacking? He should be helping you.
Two parents should be able to restrain a 9 year old.
As for the threats you are allowing her to manipulate you. Be clear. You are the parents and you are in charge. Yes this will make her very angry. Stay calm in the face of these insults. Physical attacks are unacceptable and if removing her from you hurts her (briefly and as little as possible) then that is the consequences of her unacceptable behavior

Would she benefit from a actual ‘punch bag’ that isn’t you or your Dp. To take out her anger on when she has this rage.
I think more than anything you both need to know that you are in charge and she is not. She is 9 years old. She really knows very little of the world and what is good for her.

Be brave and confident in you abilities as a parent and present a United front of you can.

Id also be considering to remove all tablet/small screen time from both children - except scheduled tv time - for a week and see if there is an improvement in her behavior. Yes it will be hard. But it may be worth it.
At that age my neuro typical and non neuro typical Ds’s could manage Max 20 mins online any more than that and after they came off they were awful. Some kids just cannot handle them. After a week give it back for a set time (20 mins) give times warnings - you have 10 mins left, 5 mins left. Either pick a game that it doesn’t matter when the game stops or agree what the child will do within the time they have and then it’s over. See how she is afterwards. Same, worse? And praise for obeying instructions. If she acts out remain calm. Don’t apologize, don’t tell her you love her just be very calm. She is 9 she wants her own way. But you and DP are the parents are you are in charge.
Good luck

It’s not just autism a range of MH disorders become more evident from the age of 7. But having said that, speaking from experience, growing up with a family member with a disability is tough. It’s probably even tougher if that relative is a younger sibling because they probably get a lot of attention for being young and for the disability, so it could be a form of attention seeking too. OP have you or DH ever had 1 on 1 time with her since DD2 was born? If not it might be an idea to take turns taking her out for exercise just by herself (the other parent can take DD2 out at another time).

Oh and also go with your gut. I knew something was going on with Ds1. DH disagreed. And I was correct, multiple times.
I now think something is going on with DS 2. Let’s see.
I think Mums have a different and more instinctive/intuitive understanding of our children. Dads have other qualities just as helpful. But not the same.

At school your daughter knows the rules and she behaves.
At home your rules are not really there.
You and your Dh are not working together and your boundaries are weak.
See your Gp and take up the good advice from the thread but also you must work together with DH and stop rewarding her for bad behaviour.

So much crap on this thread from people who are clueless about kids with AN and are so sure she is choosing to behave at school and cause havoc at home.
Considering how often this is discussed on the main boards on MN, the level of non-awareness of masking is astounding.

@JuatWantAdvice506 in addition to supporting everyone who is encouraging you to take a comprehensive description of your DD's behaviour to the GP and ask for a referral, you mentioned how she wants to tickle the family a lot but hates being tickled herself.
It involves touch, pressure and feedback from those, it comes under the umbrella of sensory seeking, there's a lot of info in this booklet that may help you understand some of her behaviours.
www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/social-care/disabilities/docs/young-people/Making%20Sense%20of%20Sensory%20Behaviour.pdf?

You have her best interests at heart and are trying to help her. Even considering your own child may not be NT is a very large leap for some parents, you're doing great overcoming that hurdle and looking for solutions. Have a look at SNChildren and SNChat when you've processed this thread, there's a lot of great advice from parents on there who have been where you are right now

Have you considered a reward chart? She gets a star for every day she doesn’t get the rage. After 7 days she gets a big reward. After 28 days she gets a much bigger reward.

You catch more flies with jam than vinegar.

I have a DD with complex SEN, a DD with ASD and an NT DD who has some sensory issues and is highly strung.

DD3 would have awful rages and it was completely impossible to get through to her. We did the ABC log (Antecedent- what led up to it; Behaviour - what happened; Consequence - what happened as a result) and we saw that she was 'hangry'.

When she was really calm, I talked to her about people getting 'hangry' (hunger provoked anger) and that I thought that was happening to her. I told her that we needed to make a deal. If I told her to eat, she had to eat and if I told her to drink, she had to drink.

For a few years, I would have to intervene when she got hangry, and I'd say 'DD drink' and give her some orange juice. I'd follow it with a digestive biscuit. Within about 10 minutes, she would start to calm down and it was literally as if she was coming out of a fog.

She's 11 now and very rarely gets like it. But then I can head it off when I notice signs of grumpy behaviour.

Do you make sure she's drinking regularly? Dehydration doesn't help.

Can you start giving her a warning 10 minutes before tea, that tea will be coming up, so she needs to finish what she's doing, etc.? You might need to give a longer warning, with gradual count downs. Like '30 minutes until tea'. In 10 minutes you need to stop what you're doing and tidy up, etc.

Op my advice is keep a diary when she is good and bad do it every day ,write down what she was doing before she goes like this as this may help your gp help u.
Your gp will help u, sounds like she needs to see a mental health team ,i have a sn child who had to see one they are amazing. Please phone your gp before this gets worse,this isnt normal and u cant sort this on your own.

"IHaveAMagicBean

Have you considered a reward chart? She gets a star for every day she doesn’t get the rage. After 7 days she gets a big reward. After 28 days she gets a much bigger reward.

You catch more flies with jam than vinegar."

Just think through your rewards - DD3 (the hangry one) had terrible trouble going into school, right up until year 4. I started a reward scheme and said that for every 5 days she went in well, she would get a My Little Pony. Firstly, I didn't realise how expensive they were. Secondly, she managed to go in well finally, and it was really hard to wean off.

So make the rewards meaningful, but manageable.

Oh, and immaturity, some kids with AN present as having an emotional age of about two thirds of their chronological age. That too can explain a lot of what to outsiders looks like "poor behaviour for a child that age"

Go to your GP OP. In 3 consecutive posts people have suggested non violent resistance, oppositional defiance and PDA. They may all be the same thing, but they may conflict so please get professional advice. Posters on here maybe professionals but they're not advising in a professional capacity.

She smashed one of her tablets, the next day he ordered her one for next day delievery,
I take her tablet off her, he gives it back 2 hours later

This and him hiding in the bathroom won't be helping.

I would learn some techniques to restrain her and make sure you're on the same page re. Consequences.

This needs to be nipped in the bud before teen years for sure.