20 years in it’s dawned on me...

[Treatedlikeamaid]

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

Oh op you sound so lovely and your husband is utterly abusive....

Please keep moving forward you deserve so much better

I suspect (based on the past with my XH) that the 'working hard for the children' is a parrotted sentence that he heard his father say a lot when he was growing up. If he's following in the family footsteps of a father whose only responsibility is to go to work, with a mum that does literally every other single thing in the house, then he may well be aware that there's a lot more to do than he does. He doesn't want YOU to find out that he's basically got it cushy, so he tries to justify only carrying part of the load with 'well, I'm doing it all for the children.'

Who, exactly, does he think YOU are doing it for? Yourself? Him? Does he, like my XH, appear to believe that you secretly love housework/cooking/paying the bills and it's a little treat for you while he slaves away being treated like an adult and allowed to go to the toilet on his own?

How is he reacting to you behaving differently?

These things tend to follow a script. People here may well be able to predict what he does next. Forewarned is forearmed.

Do your own thing, detach, take control and ignore. Imagine they are beyond help so take pity on them so never react in the way they expect. Practice repeating back sentences they have said to you, slowly and carefully and quietly as if you are trying to work out what they mean. But don't react or do what they say. Do the exact opposite to get a feeling of power, no matter how small.

Stop meal planning and stop cooking for him and make your own food for yourself and your DC and don't get drawn into why.

Act and behave as if he isn't there and as if you are single already. Don't clean up after him and don't wash his clothes.

Find yourself and your strength. Good luck!

Yes, this would also explain why he doesn't want OP to work, successfully, or at least easily.

He wants her to earn him money of course - to be his salvation. But, to keep her under his thumb, he cannot possibly allow her to have an enjoyable and rewarding professional life.

On the most mundane level, he cannot allow her to see that doing an ordinary 9-5ish office job is not that hard. You get breaks, you probably get to sit in meetings chatting and eating biscuits. You're dealing with (mostly) rational adults who are there to do a job. In many ways it can be easier than looking after small children. (Endless MN discussions on this of course. Conclusion: relative ease depends on the particular job and particular children).

In my own life, I know that the fact we both worked FT for many years, in different fields but similar 'styles' of job (office, meetings, travel inc. overnights) before having DC, meant that there was no mystery or illusion about what FT work constituted. I knew he had lunch breaks and that meetings can be quite undemanding, even relaxing.

My impression is that the only people who embrace the notion of the specialness, difficulty and 'special contribution' made to a household through work, are either people who've never worked FT or professionally themselves, or whose spouses really do do extraordinarily demanding jobs. Everyone else knows it's just something ordinary that most people do, while also taking responsibility for the rest of their lives and caring for their families.

I had a 6 year career break and returned to work FT when youngest went into yr1, I dropped to school and DH reduced hours to do pick up, tea etc.

OMG working full time and not doing the after school trauma was a doddle!!!

I remember in the Feb DH saying "I got them all home today with no one crying" 😂

@KatySun, oh yes "for the family", "family time" whenever I dared suggest doing something just for me. We really should create a game of Abuser Bingo, we'd make millions. Sometimes when I said I wanted to go out on my own for an hour or two and the kids asked to join me, he would say sorrowfully to them "Mummy doesn't want you to come". So thankful I can breathe again.

Thanks! There is so much to think about here. Actually feeling a bit like I need to process it all - and my reply just vanished 😃. I’ll post tomorrow whe have had chance to think.

I Can’t stop re reading this! You ladies ( and gents) rock x

Also tried to convince me he was going to the gym to do 10k every day to stay fit 'for the kids'. As far as I could see, the only way he was doing it for the kids was so he could get away from them faster.

@RandomMess

Absolutely.

One of the toughest gigs is working part time, rushing, oftentimes without any lunch, to collect children and then do the homework, activities and dinner runs.

Absolutely shattering.

I know loads of women who did it for their children but found it exhausting.

Then you have women working 3 or 4 days a week and their employer is screwing them work load wise, and getting a full weeks work out of part time hours.

Sometimes it's easier to work fulltime and at least you know where you are.

Trying to reduce a fulltime job to get home and do a a full on stretch running around is very difficult.

I know lots of women do it though, and are perceived as "lucky" because they are part time.
More like double time to me in many cases.

I remember shortly after my fourth child was born and my XH had moved us 350 miles from family 'for his job', leaving me all day in the house with no friends, no family support and four children under six all day. He did move to a better job though, in his defence, but he liked to move every two years anyway...

I'd had a spectacularly bad day and he came home to me crying (I had PND too, hardly surprising). I said that he was lucky to go to work and he said tha work was harder than staying home with children (!) I told him that at least he got to go the toilet alone without having people shouting through the door and having to take the baby in with him.

His answer was that most of his team were so incompetent that he might as well take them to the toilet with him, and he had it harder.

Truly aghast that I stayed with him for another three years (and another baby!).

Sorry. I’m realising just how much I’ve been manipulated and controlled. I think. S a lot more than I thought.
Afraid I knocked back way too much while cooking last nights dinner. I think the comment,‘don’t do anything complicated’ struck me as being a cheek, and then I doubt myself again. Is it a cheek?
Another omg Katy sun! You’re right. I didn’t realise ( again!)Yes, family time, exactly. It blackmails you into feeling you’re letting the family down if you don’t come.it actually means, ‘you come too so you can do all the boring bits, and don’t think of having time on your own’. Yes, he’ll stand over me too, for hours until I agree.
Lottie, I think you’re right. I also think his work takes the mickey, I also think it’s easier and nobler to be ,’oh so busy at work’ than scrubbing the loo.

And Katy thanks for the third para comment! And dragon, thank you for that. I can feel my confidence flickering into life, it feels wierd!😃😃😃😃
Zaphod I think he genuinely thinks I lie around all day deliberately not applying to proper jobs cos I love my cushy life, while he, poor chap has to WORK. And therefore deserves stellar treatment. Scarily his mum was arty, then a repressed housewife - While his dad said how awful having to go to the World Cup was.
Tork, he’s now being super nice. Found a journal where I wondered if he pushes so far then has to backtrack if He feels he’s gone too far. Beginning to think he does know what he’s doing. But Reflexively(?)like a kid knows how to get his own way, not in a way that he’ll question or think about.
I hear you though - there has been a time when he would get really in my face, yelling. It sounds mad, but am understanding this better now, - that you don’t realise, that you are so confused and anxious. A bit of you thinks it’s wrong, but you don’t know what to do. Why oh why didn’t I know this help was in mumsnet then??
now I have a partner to hopefully get this business off the ground he’s forgotten the years of yelling, and is taking credit. The barefaced cheek of it!
Thanks Pretty. I am trying your suggestions. You are right, carrying on with the smallest thing gives me back a feeling of power. (Calmly Told him he could get the bread if he wanted bread. ( before id have rushed off to shop)) Especially with the various phrases suggested and the penguins of Madagascar in my head!
Yes to work! I used to love it, sigh. Long hours and I’d have to leave meetings to get babies. He never could as his job was important too. Stress was unbearable. Actually why wasn’t he doing any of the drop off, pick up, any bloody thing at all. And when I took Fridays ‘off’ it meant being ft for less pay and more juggling deadlines.
Everything, I feel for you,what a nasty piece of work.
Zaphod, we have led the same lives! Nagged and nagged until Moved to be closer to his job - away from my support.totally isolated and lonely. And yes, pnd too, sympathies, it’s awful. and no not suprising, I’m now realising. Doesn’t sound like you had a great time. I lost the plot totally and I felt an utter failure for not being able to do it. What I didn’t realise was the other people had dh, mils and parents to help.
Little red flag..tonight some muttered joke about if I didn’t do x he’d beat me. But said in a jolly way. While we (!) were cooking. And chatting. I thought of what you’d said tork, questioned it and he dismissed it as a joke with a smile. I said I didn’t like it. Weirdly I can’t remember the details now.
And again, thanks for your patience and time. It’s like you lot are guiding the plane back to the ground! But hang on, that makes me a big fat plane. Hmmm.
Hugs to all xx

That joke about beating you was your first warning. He will soon become very pissed off at having to continue being nice, you should be back in your place by now.

Do you know from past experience how long the nice phase will last? Have you ever stood your ground long enough for him to switch from nice to nasty to regain control?

Good question. I’ve never really noticed it before tork. I’ve not noticed because It’s quite subtle..I think..and everyone says, watch out for violence, and I think, he’s nice, he’s not violent, they’ve got it wrong. And I’m pretty sure I’ve not stood my ground very long!
But thinking about it..I think it’s maybe 6 months? Even a year? It’s long enough for me not to notice. The car thing was a year ago. It will definitely happen when I want to visit my mum, or the very rare times I went to see friends for weekend.

When our relationship was on the way out, with hindsight, we had stopped being intimate, and every form of whining and persuading was used. Then my ex said he would just have sex with me when I was asleep. This really disturbed me so I questioned him on it, and he said he was ‘joking’.

Thereafter I slept in with the youngest DC.

Not remembering the details is disassociation - it is so important to remember otherwise your brain tricks you into thinking it is okay, simply so that you can survive. Plus my ex would just deny things, minimise or dismiss. I started a journal so I could remember. Otherwise you doubt your sanity and it is easy for him to pretend it did not happen or confuse you by being nice again.

Thanks katysun. Woh, that’s not a good joke.that does not sound good.
I get your point.
I’ll start a journal. You’re right of course - Id already forgotten the carry on at Xmas.

And the carry on when I wanted to do a course in oct. Definitely need a journal 👍

Start 2 journals and write in one in a way that if he picks it up he will learn from it.

Start right from the beginning of the first time his behaviour was damaging to you. Detail how scared and anxious it made you.

Write it in an objective way. Write what a good husband's reaction should have been. Compare and contrast. If you are hoping to salvage the relationship, giving him tips in this way should help.

Write a 2nd journal also right from the beginning and detail everything as proof of evidence should he escalate or so you can see for patterns. It will be an eye opener.

Meanwhile continue with detachment, act and speak kindly but stop the kindness and thoughtfulness towards him so that there is a subtle but discernible change that makes him more independent of you so make sure you only serve up and eat what you or your dc want to eat from now. Don't always call him for mealtimes, give him jobs to do around the house and do not do them for him, ever!

Take time off for yourself, say the gp days you have to, book to go and see your mum every 6 months just don't tell him and don't get into an argument with him.

If he starts to get angry, do not respond, do not defend yourself, just sadly shake your head. Say oh dear pityingly if anything.

Going to see your mum and doing everything else you want to do should be your goal.

He will be super nice to you if he picks up your growing confidence and strength because a man like that only tramples on doormats who do everything for them like a willing slave.

Become the free spirit you once was.

Don't cook for him, don't clean up or do his laundry any more. Let it get angry because this will be the visible sign of his true colours you can use in evidence to leave him if needed will show in the true light of day how much of your behaviour has been spent appeasing, aquiesing and therefore mentally damaging/ questioning yourself.

If he complains sweetly ask him to put it in the washing machine and turn it on.

Say and ( not) do everything sweetly. You will be getting tiny pleasures for every single little assertion. Keep them up and record what you have done and what the response was and build up!

Exciting times op!

I feel like we’ve been living parallel lives treatedlikeanade. I’m slowly rediscovering a small sense of self thanks to reading threads like this on Mumsnet. Your thread has reminded me of the hope that’s out there. I didn’t know what a red flag was when I met my now H over 20 years ago; there was definitely enough bunting for a street party. One step at a time. One step at a time. Smile and wave, smile and wave.

Op you mention he gets angry when you say something against what he's said. Are you scared of his temper? I'm hoping not but do you think it's possible he would lay a finger on you? If so please be careful and if you plan on leaving don't tell him what you plan on doing.

Never ever assert yourself verbally with someone who intimidates you physically, no matter how much you are provoked into doing so.

The way to achieve this is to imagine he has turned into some prehistoric monster ( might not be far from the truth 😄) who is speaking gibberish so don't even try to make sense of it or rationalise it or respond to it.

It is ok however, to respond in fear because ringing the police is your option and you can say I am scared of you and what you might do.

Definitely ring them and log every frightening incident.

Don't keep his behaviour a secret anymore. Let others know what he is like and be open with him that his anger scares you and you no longer feel safe in his company.

Obviously you know him better than us op so be careful but it is important for your peace of mind to know exactly where you stand in terms of how safe you are.

Always detach, and do not respond no matter how much you are provoked.

@treatedlikeamaid I've looked back and saw he said in a jokey way he would beat you if you didn't do x. This isnt a small red flag, its a huge one.
He knows his tactics are starting to wane. He has probably sensed a change in you and is now trying threatening tactics to keep you in check. Although disguised as a "joke". It's not a joke. My ex often would say horrible things in a jokey way, it's a tactic so if you were to get upset they pass blame to you because it's only a joke right?
Please be careful. Often abuse gets worse when the victim finds their own voice and tries to leave. Hence why I said don't tell him if you plan on leaving. Alot of people think of he would never hit me and then low and behold it turns to physical violence when the emotional stuff no longer works. It's all about total control.

Make sure that your journal is hidden and that he cannot find it.
We separated a few months after his ‘joke’.
I stupidly made the mistake after that of trying to reconcile (was hoovered in again) and it was clear to me the great big stumbling block was that I would never, ever be able to be intimate with him again. Plus I remembered everything and he had not changed. So that was that.
Then it was the endless and pointless mediation 🙄.
So my advice is remembering is important; but don’t ever go back(wards); keep moving forward and in time away. You can do this