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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

20 years in it’s dawned on me...

994 replies

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/04/2020 11:57

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

OP posts:
Mary1935 · 16/07/2020 07:59

This is a wonderful thread. So much valuable information and insights shared.
Treated - he sound like my ex - he hit me too - just weak men!! Bullies - does he treat anyone else the way he treats you?
Does he yell at the neighbours.
He is abusing you.
My ex had me dizzy - when he’d take our son out on sat it would take me a long time to recover from his behaviour.
He was soooo anxious- drove me batty but never did anything about it.
He couldn’t cope or acted like he couldn’t.
I once went shopping and my son fell and hurt himself whilst he was looking after him. Guess what - this was my fault!! I wasn’t contactable - I didn’t take my mobile -
These men tie you in knots and addle you’re brain.
He knows your capable - he’s jealous - he needs the upper hand and he knows how to get it.
The subtle ways they infect us.

Do you actually know much about the financial side of things.
Do you have access to accounts, banking any investments.
I’d not be surprised if he had 1000s - he focuses on money a lot.
Do you know how much comes in and goes out.
I wouldn’t trust him at all.
Nice to reel you back in and them WHAM - and you are like WTF!!

You are a bright capable woman. You maybe codependent but that’s not a crime. It can be worked on and your are breaking the cycle.
I really love all the tips and ideas on this thread.
It’s the best thread I’ve read.
I will keep reading it and am really spurring you on.

There is a website call CODA re codependents.

You are moving forward - keep walking!!
It took me three years to get him out - I started reading mumsnet and saw his his behaviour wasn’t acceptable. I got a counsellor too, I started to let others know, my gp, women’s aid and friends.
I did start anti depressants too which helped me. I was going through the menopause at the same time and it helped a lot with irritability.

I feel great now and am freee!!
You too can fly x

Treatedlikeamaid · 17/07/2020 08:10

Oh well done, idowhatiwantnow that’s really brilliant. I think you have had a narrow escape!

OP posts:
Treatedlikeamaid · 17/07/2020 09:13

Once again Katy An everyone, You are full of calm good advice.
mary thank you for your encouragement. Im so glad the thread is useful. Certainly very good advice on here. - I’m just slow to learn!And very well done indeed!
I’m trying to carve out more space atm. I guess, because yes, breaking up the home is terrifying atm. The Counsellor explained that the idea is I Re learn to respect myself and then I will learn what I am prepared to put up with, and that may include the relationship.
She reminds me to be very clear about division of chores. Be super encouraging when the washing up is done, but if it’s not, don’t nag, but say,’oh now we can’t have any dinner’ an stick to it. By starting with kids, it and I will grow. I realise this will mean a lot of walking out of the room and not engaging when it comes to dh! She said to tell him I don’t want to go home. ( that’s anxiety inducing!) don’t know how to do that.

I Explained that he called and was v negative - doesn’t know what to cook, kids bored etc.So I feel like He’s handing it all over to me.
Counsellor says, by offering suggestions of activities etc, I’m colluding in encouraging him to dump it on me. I need to let him get on with it.
I Suggested they could pop over here, And we all fly back together but no, there’s no discussion- he gets cross and I’m being selfish and unrealistic. Which is when the counsellors advice goes pear shaped because I just cant argue. even tho they and mum would benefit.
Feeling guilty, it’s been 3 weeks on sun. My mates say kids will be fine. I hear you all saying let him get on with it. I sort of feel I deserve this time with mum as she is getting Alzheimer’s v quickly and next time I can come out will be October half term. I’m also aware of all the times he made it so bloody hard to come out. Signed power of attorney yesterday. Which was distressing.Not too sure How long I can drag this out. Dp said when they know I’ll be back they can go camping. Then said,’the neighbour was going to tell him a good campsite but forgot’ at which point my energy sinks through my shoes. Not understand quite why..it would just be lovely if he said, I’ve looked into this campsite and we don’t need you here, we’ll go on our own and have fun.
It’s still manipulation to make me feel guilty, and it’s easy for the counsellor to say challenge it, less easy to do. ( am anxious as soon as I even consider it!)
Thanks for listening to this looooong ramble.
Will re read thread again - and books! Getting there..slowly. Thanks to you all xxxx

OP posts:
KatySun · 17/07/2020 09:33

I am sorry to hear about your mother, that indeed sounds distressing Flowers. I think it may be enough just now to recognise that is itself emotionally a lot to deal with and you are doing very well.

I don’t have time to respond just now at any length but one brief observation. I think breaking up a home is a very emotionally loaded expression (it dates from during and after the end of the Second World War so should be understood in that context, I think). But there are of course genuine practical, financial and emotional concerns when parents separate which would need to be addressed, yes.

I leave someone else to make the obvious point that if you were able to build your self-confidence and self-respect up in this marriage, then it would not have disappeared in the first place. Not saying it is impossible, but I think your reaction at the end of your post is entirely valid (easy for someone else to say, less easy to do). On the other hand, in some respects, you are already doing it as you got the job and went to Spain! Reflect on that point and take comfort and strength.

RandomMess · 17/07/2020 10:12

Very sad about your Mum.

You need to practice being bright and breezy!

You suggest every time he comments you still being out there/kids hard work etc etc "put the DC on the plane out here. I can pick them up they be fine" - grey rock about that one.

The camping thing- leave him to it, if he doesn't sort it then the holiday doesn't happen!

When he moans and complains I would reply (every time) "I'm watching my Mum disappear and die before me. I'm having a horrific time too".

Pick your phrases and shut him down with his guilt tripping every time.

Do not rush back! He wants you there under his control. The DC will be absolutely fine. Their Dad is there it is one summer- contact them individually and tell them you miss them, be honest how your Mum is but tell them if they want to come over to speak to Dad about.

ThanksThanksThanksThanks

Treatedlikeamaid · 17/07/2020 10:27

Thanks so much for replying so quickly! Really appreciate it.
Omg thanks Katy. Thanks for saying that it’s emotionally distressing - it is, and I need to take care of myself through this ( did I just write that?! Go me!) I did get the job and come here. Yes. Good point about confidence shouldn’t have disappeared. I can feel it coming back here - already feel more capable about future - till a phone call drags me down again.but I’m really noticing the games now.
Thanks random! Very good advice - certainly borrowing your dramatic phrase! Lol. We will get into another’whohasit worse’ battle! You’ve addressed my concerns perfectly and that’s so helpful- thank you very very much for letting me bounce my confusion off of you xx 🥗🍊🍊Spanish dinner out for you all xxxx

OP posts:
RandomMess · 17/07/2020 10:51

If DP comes back at you if you state about how awful losing your Mum is I would use a sentence like this...

"Yes DP we always know your life is far harder/worse than mine so let's change the subject/call time on this phone call"

Call him out on what he is doing, you know that is what he is doing and so does he so label it.

If the phone calls continue to just make you miserable tell him that you will call him when you have a date for returning and unless he is calling you to tell you when the DC flights land to not bother as you are far too busy and far too upset about your Mum for his moaning.

Be brave, be strong!!!

You carry on messaging the DC etc separately to him.

RandomMess · 17/07/2020 10:52

If DP comes back at you if you state about how awful losing your Mum is I would use a sentence like this...

"Yes DP we always know your life is far harder/worse than mine so let's change the subject/call time on this phone call"

Call him out on what he is doing, you know that is what he is doing and so does he so label it.

If the phone calls continue to just make you miserable tell him that you will call him when you have a date for returning and unless he is calling you to tell you when the DC flights land to not bother as you are far too busy and far too upset about your Mum for his moaning.

Be brave, be strong!!!

You carry on messaging the DC etc separately to him.

bringon2020 · 17/07/2020 12:35

Your counsellor is giving you tips on "how to cope with the heat" when you're living in a house that is on fire (to use a metaphor I read on mumsnet). You don't "cope". You leave the fucking house!
And all this nonsense about "breaking a home". It's not "breaking a home". It's "leaving a fucked up home where emotional abuse happens and people are unhappy" and going to a "peaceful home". That's really as simple as that.

And sorry for your mum. My dad has dementia, it's terrible to watch him go away. But it is very common as well, and it comforts me somehow to know lots of people are dealing with this horrible, horrible thing, just like I am, and you are.

billy1966 · 17/07/2020 12:44

@RandomMess

Great advice re telling him "We all know your life is harder DH....etc".

@Treatedlikeamaid ...remember contact with him means stress, that is what he represents...stress and anxious ness for you.

If you write down some responses to him and have them in your hand to parrot off the next time he tries to dunp on you...also write down a REMINDER: HE KEPT ME FROM VISITING MUM FOR YEARS.

FlowersWishing you strength.

TorkTorkBam · 17/07/2020 12:48

Do you need his approval to bring the children over?

Don't ask. Tell. Choose the flights, tell him you are booking them. It worked for your trip.

Obviously he will punish you by having a big drama over something like packing but if you see it coming so what?

RandomMess · 17/07/2020 13:23

You can even do the "why are you denying the DC the right to see Granny before she gets worse" tbh

Vodkacranberryplease · 17/07/2020 19:08

Ok I can only do a short one unfortunately. Your counsellor is wasting your time trying to get you to handle this.

And if you don't go he's going to take half of your mums estate - more if he pisses it away on a business that doesn't work or expenses cause he 'can't' get a job.

In the nicest possible way you need to wake up and smell the coffee before you lose what little you have.

Vodkacranberryplease · 17/07/2020 19:11

Your counsellor is giving you tips on "how to cope with the heat" when you're living in a house that is on fire (to use a metaphor I read on mumsnet). You don't "cope". You leave the fucking house!
And all this nonsense about "breaking a home". It's not "breaking a home". It's "leaving a fucked up home where emotional abuse happens and people are unhappy" and going to a "peaceful home". That's really as simple as that.

Bringiton is 100% correct.

RandomMess · 17/07/2020 19:29

I have to have to agree I am always speaking from the angle that you will be leaving, anything else is insanity.

KatySun · 17/07/2020 20:19

Yes, it is most definitely going to a peaceful home.

The whole idea of a ‘broken home’ has so much historical baggage and it is not a valid concept in this day and age. Even in the mid-twentieth century, it did not only apply to divorce, but to where a parent died, and even where there were problems such as abuse, unemployment and alcoholism. So any home which did not function in a harmonious way was a ‘broken home’.

In other words, the home ‘broke’ long before people got to the divorce court or because of other reasons which were to do with poverty, or cruelty, or things like death (beyond their control).

No-one, but no-one would talk of a child whose parent died now as coming from a ‘broken home’ so quite why it is still (erroneously) applied to divorce is anyone’s guess. To stigmatise and make people feel guilty, I suppose.

And it works. I remember going to a training course and the speaker there was talking about solving problems in businesses. I am not going to be able to explain this well as I am tired. But basically it was to do with brainstorming everything you knew about a situation or business where there was a problem and writing down all the component parts. There could be dozens of component parts to a system or institution (whatever it was). And then by taking the pieces apart, it would be easier to see how to build something new or solve the problem by changing one or two things. He explained it better than this. But his main point was that you had to break the business (on paper) or whatever it was into its component parts and only by doing it that way, would you be able to see how to make it work better, which bits to change.

This was eight months after I had just left my marriage and I was in the post-separation maelstrom, and it was like an epiphany that I had done the only thing possible. Which was to break up our entirely dysfunctional home so that we could put it back as new and functional homes. The same pieces but working better.

It took a very long while but I am absolutely confident now that the pieces do work better separately and that the children have the best chance despite everything to grow into confident adults who know their parents love them. Because for all his issues with me, ex has learnt to put the children’s needs and interests first, because he has had to.

I am probably going to name-change soon as I think I may well become identifiable to those who know me, if I am not already.

Vodkacranberryplease · 18/07/2020 01:42

@KatySun before you go... I just want you to know you are amazing. Nothing can take that away from you and you can go through the rest of your life knowing you got through this.

And are bulletproof. That's how it goes - nothing can ever get you like that again Flowers

billy1966 · 18/07/2020 09:48

@KatySun
Great advice for life.👏

It takes such bravery to accept something is broken, and have the strength to take on putting it back together in a new configuration, that will work.
Flowers

KatySun · 18/07/2020 12:09

Thank you Flowers

Yes, I am definitely ready for the next chapter in my life!

I will keep following along and wishing Treatedlikeamaid well. You will come through and out the other side Flowers

Treatedlikeamaid · 19/07/2020 09:54

Katysun, what a wonderful post. You are totally amazing, incredibly brave and practical. That must have taken a lot of strength.Thank you before you go. , For what it’s worth, you are an inspiration. You all are. 💐
Thanks bringon I’m sorry to hear you are going through this with your dad. It is reassuring though awful, to know so many people go through this. I’m sending yo and your dad hugs.
Thanks everyone. Keyboard rubbish atm!

OP posts:
Treatedlikeamaid · 20/07/2020 13:12

Hello.
Big wobble ! Re reading this thread - which is amazing. thanks so much everyone.

OP posts:
Vodkacranberryplease · 20/07/2020 13:21

Dont wobble!!!! Goodness me, this is why you have to leave asap!!! Because he is manipulative as hell - you know that!!!

RandomMess · 20/07/2020 13:26

Why are you wobbling?

Is it because away from him it doesn't seem "that" bad or because he is spouting more manipulative crap?

Outofthevalley · 21/07/2020 09:05
Flowers

Honestly, truly, you will manage this.

You do not say why you are wobbling and I would not like to put words into your mouth. But it may be because at some point you need to go back and it seems like the easiest thing is not to rock the boat, given everything else with your mum. No-one is expecting you to perform miracles here and you have been dealing with an awful lot, so be kind to yourself.

Things in order of priority:

  • clear path back to seeing your mum. If you are returning to England, do so knowing when you are going to visit your mum again and that it will be regular. No ifs nor buts from your partner. This bit is non-negotiable.
  • job security. You need to be able to do your job wherever you are, so you have independent money, so boundaries around the time you spend on it.

Stay firm on both these things, it will be good practice.

  • related to job security, money. Know what the family finances are and whether you have the ability to live separately (and if not, what you need to get there). Knowledge is power. This may involve seeing a solicitor, do you have the funds to pay for an hour of advice? Citizen’s Advice Bureau can also advice on benefits etc. (I actually agree with Mary1935 that he may well have money saved away).

I have not put children at the top of this list because I firmly believe that they will benefit by seeing you grow and develop and make autonomous decisions. Of course their best interests are paramount. They too need to work out their relationship with their father as they grow older and it is not helpful to them to see you live in a climate of fear. Model what you want for them.

All of which is easier to say on paper than do, I know that. Trust yourself Flowers

Outofthevalley · 21/07/2020 09:09

By the way, by saying know the finances and if you can live separately, I am not saying you should or need to leave him right away (because that seems too scary right now?) but that you should have or work towards having that option.

At some point you will gain clarity about what you want to do and when you do, you want to be in the best possible position.