Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

20 years in it’s dawned on me...

994 replies

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/04/2020 11:57

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

OP posts:
Pashazade · 24/06/2020 08:56

@Treatedlikeamaid my son sometimes narrates me like it's a David Attenborough film, with the softly softly tone too "so here we see the mummy and she's about to do...." always cracks me up, maybe try that one for cleaning the bathroom or observing your H's behaviour. You're doing brilliantly, keep going.

TorkTorkBam · 24/06/2020 10:10

Yes, that's right, that's how I do it.

I also do the way Pash's son does it, also out loud with the children. They find it hilarious. Especially the youngest who likes to give Attenborough style commentary on her eldest teenage brother appear from his bedroom at midday and her brothers near constantly sparring/wrestling/chasing.

For work, I do it like a training session. Now what do we see here? Yes, Bob, the chairman has asked for information about X. The first thing we do is to read her message carefully. What are the key words you see? Are there any emotive words? What do they tell us? Yes, Bob, that's right "omnishambles" is indeed an emotive word that tells us about the chairman's motivations in sending this email.

TorkTorkBam · 24/06/2020 10:17

I also do pretending I am being recorded for a reality TV show like Super Nanny. This is a good one for when I am close to murdering the children or caving in to the children.

Comtesse · 24/06/2020 11:40

Ha @Treatedlikeamaid glad it made you smile. I find music incredibly motivational - had a whole play list I used all the time when interviewing for my last big promotion.

Also - another thought on how get started working when your emotions are jangling. Check out the pomodoro approach - essentially using a timer to do small blocks of work to stay motivated and not freak out. When there is a big horrible job to do, I set a timer for 20 minutes or just 10 mins if it’s particularly horrific and say shhhhhh to mu thoughts because I’ve just got to concentrate on the work til the timer goes. Then you have a tiny pause and do it again. The act of starting is the hardest thing sometimes. I find this to be a good way of jumpstarting when the anxiety is whirling....

TheSparklyPussycat · 24/06/2020 13:49

If I was overwhelmed by housework, I used to pretend I was a Spanish or Russian cleaner, come to do the house. She/ gave a monologue out loud on what a crap housekeeper I was! It was fun, and it gave my critical voice a way to express its voice, which defused its power. And the housework got done Smile

I realise this sounds a bit bonkers Blush

Treatedlikeamaid · 24/06/2020 18:33

Oh you are all funny! No sparrkly it Doesn’t sound bonkers, it sounds fun! kids are brilliant. Love the David Attenborough idea!
Comtesse that sounds like a great idea. Am Slowly getting more organised and this sounds good - just have to stick with it!
Dark, that is a very scary sentence. He’s being nice atm, Which is where I doubt everything I’ve been thinking..but am wising up thanks to you guys being so patient..

OP posts:
TorkTorkBam · 24/06/2020 18:39

Can you see the patterns yet? In the past when he was "being nice" was there something that triggered him getting back to normal shitty?

Time-based? Perhaps he can only keep the nice act up for a certain length of time.

Sex related?

Success for you related?

Happiness for you related?

Stress happens to him?

Any patterns you can think of?

Vodkacranberryplease · 24/06/2020 19:08

Patterns. Hm. We could play narcissist bingo perhaps? Because they are so unoriginal it's comical.
Time based. Definitely. Being totally not who you are is exhausting and while they can do it for ages at first once they feel like they have you that patience miraculously vanishes. A few days is about the limit with a lot of them.

Anything that is around their sense of entitlement. So you are going without the children and at some point he will realise that's work and responsibility for him. And be all indignant at you 'leaving it all to him' it 'interferes with his career' and then will play the bad wife/mother card.

But he will take it to the wire - and the big drama will be unveiled when he feels it's too late for you to get around it. So I'm guessing Friday, possibly late Thursday.

The theory being you will be so stressed you'll back down for a quiet life. But it will be presented as you going is totally stressful for him, and how unfair it is on him.
It's too early to play that game yet - but I'm guessing it will start once reality hits.

If I were you I would NOT discuss how you are making it easier eg left this food here, Have spoken to dcs friends mum to arrange x, etc.
None of the usual placating or compensating. IF he asks answer quickly, unapologetically without offering information not specifically asked. Facts only minimal contact otherwise.

If when he starts just look blankly at him for a few seconds, say oh for gods sake. 🙄 And walk out of the room. Don't engage. If pushed perhaps something like 'I'm not fucking cancelling and that's that'. Said with some force it usually works.

He might do the sick/self pity one too. Maybe after the others. The more you have contact with him and the more you mention the trip the more chances he will have. So maybe try rushing around with papers in your hand saying 'sorry can't talk, busy' 😁

MitziK · 24/06/2020 19:29

Oooh. Just an idea.

In case he suddenly feels ill on the night before you go, so can't possibly manage the children, have their passports in your bag all ready so you can say 'Not to worry, I'll take the kids with me, give you a chance to rest and recover properly'.

'Cancel? I can't do that, my mother's ill and nowhere near as capable as you are. No, it'll be good to get them out of your hair whilst you get some sleep. I'll just get some clothes whilst I'm there if they need anything'.

You then have the kids with you, too, just in case your mother is unwell enough to need you to stay a bit longer.

Just saying.

Vodkacranberryplease · 24/06/2020 19:38

Mitzi like your thinking! Could be expensive though flight wise. Maybe a backup childcare plan if that's at all possible? His parents? (Doubly bad for him as also embarrassing). Best friends parents? But most definitely 100% the likely lever he uses.

KatySun · 24/06/2020 20:28

I agree with disfordarkchocolate.

He is being nice just now, so you start doubting your own experience and ‘forget’ the abuse, so when it starts again, you are taken aback and completely wrong-footed and wonder what you did wrong. Google the cycle of abuse. No abuser is horrid the whole time.

TorkTorkBam · 24/06/2020 20:36

"Oh dear. That is a shame. Poor you. I'm sure you will think of something."

Memorise this. Use as necessary. Say in a sympathetic voice.

This is in my toolbox of generic phrases for cheeky fuckers, i.e anyone who is trying to make their problems my problems.

justilou1 · 24/06/2020 23:49

Oh I bet he’s planning some kind of disaster. Have an escape plan organised just in case.

Treatedlikeamaid · 25/06/2020 09:00

Oh good grief you are right. Again. Patterns : it like he’s been nice so now he Expects a cuddle, and he always getsFlu and has to stay in bed when I get back for a day or so. Which meant when he really was ill I thought he was putting it on.
Thanks for the tips! But I Don’t think he’s planning a disaster- it’s usually a lot of pressure for the weeks before I go, then when it’s inevitable and I’m exhausted/ agreed I’ve booke the wrong flights he calms down.
He’s Actually said bring her here, which is nice...? And is giving advice of what I’ll need to do when I get there, which he says is him trying to help, so that’s good too. I guess. Don’t know any more.
Already feel bad - told him 8 days, I didn’t have the courage to say 12. Will have to extend the flight when I get there so to speak. See how complicated I make my life? Oh! I think it’s part of not being able to communicate- I’m wary of his reaction, so get into all sorts of muddles and lies. Which is exhausting Anxiety inducing and not me.
Just don’t want to dash over for just a week as the kids and he are quite capable, and mum needs regular meds and monitoring. And no, I might have left food when he was working all day, but he isn’t atm. to be fair to him He does quite a lot of the cooking now. Amazing how nice that is and how I could get used to it!
Noticed yesterday he was off out with a friend and did the ,’guess I’ll go out then..’ poor me thing. It’s sooo draining! Told him to be happy about it, so Well done me.
Sorry this is a muddle lot spinning round means I keep deleting! You’re spared!
More coffee! And a nice day to you all x

OP posts:
RandomMess · 25/06/2020 09:31

If your Mum comes over here you won't be able to work and both of you will be dependent/reliant on him...

He will also expect money from your Mum and complain about her etc.

TorkTorkBam · 25/06/2020 10:09

And is giving advice of what I’ll need to do when I get there, which he says is him trying to help

Christ alive, does he think you are a total moron? Or does he just want to make you think you can't think for yourself. Did he come up with anything that you wouldn't have worked out for yourself?

How much time of your did he waste on this big-clever-man-sorts-out-fluffy-lady-brain? Good job he did I suppose or else you'd have sat around thinking about kittens and not packed your phone charger.

Justtryingtobehelpful · 25/06/2020 14:13

Don't beat yourself up about the flights. Give yourself a party on the back for going back and chafing them to what your originally wanted to do. Check out 'The Gift of Fear' as it discusses how we should trusty our instincts.

You've spent a long time single shuddering yours and you have to give yourself time to get familiar with listening and twisting it again.

You did great to sort it out in your favour. It'll get easier, trust me! Baby steps as you said previously......

@TorkTorkBam please give us your list of genetic phrases. Literally compiling a list from my MN studies on how to detect CFs! Thanks!! 😁

Justtryingtobehelpful · 25/06/2020 14:13

Dammit - detect, deflect and defeat!!!

chipperfish · 25/06/2020 23:56

Treatedlikeamaid Ive been following your thread from the start but haven't commented because Ive never really had anything useful to add that hasn't been said better and sooner by other posters - but wanted to say you are making amazing progress recognizing the games that are being played with your mind and detaching from the situation. And its so great that you have made concrete plans to see your mother.

I have been in a relationship where I experienced a similar sort of subtle control and emotional abuse, and from the inside it was so hard to see and analyze because part of the manipulation was to keep me lurching from crisis to crisis, never having time to sit and think about what was really going on, always feeling fear, depression and dread with the promise of everything being better when I reached some nebulous but unobtainable goal.
Oddly enough what got me through was female friends who weren't afraid to tell me the truth, and a sudden revelation when he was setting up an argument/emotional scene with me that he knew nothing about the subject and the whole point was to browbeat me so he could accuse me of being overly emotional and therefore less than him and in need of his superior guidance. Very funny in hindsight when I changed my reactions and refused to play.

It took me a long time after to really understand the relationship properly and how I slowly ended up there, boiled like a frog into feeling I was losing my mind and breaking down. I still get struck with revelations now; but in the aftermath of our breakup (my resurrection!) I realized how much I had internalized his views of me and started to parrot and believe them. Like a kid being told they are stupid and will never amount to anything, versus a kid who is supported and praised, it was really influencing how I responded in situations and judged my own performance.

After leaving him, my inner monologue was pretty much his voice - always focused on the negative - you are fat, you are a mess, so disorganized, need support, you are stupid, too naive etc etc etc, ruminating on and on. When I realized how damaging and sabotaging this was I made a conscious choice to replace it with another voice. Mantras and random affirmations of positivity don't really work for me so I had to link it with concrete things.

So every night before I went to sleep I would go over the day, and I would consciously take credit for everything I had achieved that day, even if it would seem banal or small in many peoples eyes - eg the house is nice and welcoming because I did x,y and z. Children are in clean beds, happy after a health meal and time with me/bedtime stories because I am a capable mother who gives them the time, love and care they need. Bills are paid and debts are paying off because I am organized and focused. My feedback from work is excellent because I am good at my job and have a good manner with people. X really enjoyed our coffee today because we have a healthy friendship and I am supportive and funny company. I am getting fitter and stronger because I am motivated and have taken the choice to do exercise.
And when I caught myself getting into the 'You are so dumb' mindset he used to have me in I would give myself a mental shake and remind myself of the list I had used to lull myself to sleep the day before. And at first it felt really weird to focus on the positive and praise myself but it was a good way to reground my thoughts and remove that lack of self belief he had tried so hard to instill in me.

Not sure if this is in any way helpful but it was a reasonably easy act of self care that got me through a lot of wobbles in emotions and confidence along the way.

Vodkacranberryplease · 26/06/2020 00:40

@chipperfish that was amazing. So insightful and lovely. Thank you Flowers

billy1966 · 26/06/2020 06:07

@chipperfish
Super post👍

Treatedlikeamaid · 26/06/2020 08:31

Long post alert! Sorry, musing out loud. Skip at will!
Chipperfish, thank you very much indeed for posting such an incredibly helpful post. Am touched that you have been reading this, and that you have taken the time to write such a long and thoughtful post. Thank you so much.
I will definitely do this. You have reminded me I used to have a journal to moan in and a journal of ‘nice things’ - funny bits the kids had said, stuff like that to cheer me up.
That, and crying on the phone twice to a mate now ( ouch) reminded me that I have been puzzling this stuff out for years, and am only making ( slow) progress now. Bumped into friends on the beach last night with the kids ( he was on the phone and said, should I come? ‘ don’t worry’! I said! When we got in late and happy, he was all, pissed off- ‘you should have told me you were going out’ grrr) and struck by how people seem to go out, get stuff done, have fun.We seem to live in a bubble of blah. We can never afford to buy a paddling pool, ( or go to mums) and even free fun is just trudging around the same old walk.
You were right about the games- We apparently have to tidy the house And go to Costco before I go to spain( it is a mess) but that suddenly involves moving furniture- so the hottest day yesterday and we were sorting out the garage. Was jealous of my mates on Facebook who seem to have fun out with their families. Have been for a while, but this time it’s striking deeper. Before I was resigned, now I’m getting cross. At last! A real emotion, not this grey half life!
Something is definitely changing.
Counsellor this week is again working on assertiveness. Seems people are like Kids and will continue to push unless their behaviour is checked, and I need to learn to check it. Easier said than done! But he has the right to disagree, not the right to be nasty which is when I leave the room. I also need to work out what I want. Without trying to factor in everybody else..what do I want. Harder than it looks! Apparantly I don’t allow myself to want anything. ( true, a little voice says what’s the point/it’s too scary/expensive etc. Even for a coffee!

Must be learning because am now realising how hard and joyless everything is. And you are right, I’m under pressure to start a business that earns enough to keep the family, but with no finances unless I break into my tiny pension ( hasn’t been added to in 15 years) yet at the same time am supposed to deal with whatever random distraction Comes my way. Yesterday it was to order ink because he found it too difficult. Manages to buy stuff for himself ok!

Suspect this time away will be a changing point.
Thanks for the post re bringing mum here and both being reliant on him. Very good point. and is all off course she’s family’ ( yeah right, I remember him being so resentful once that she felt she couldn’t come back) wtf. What have I just written? Fcuk.
Good grief I’m glad you are here. Thank you soooooo much.
Well done me! I got the kids out last night, they are happy , I made a Lovely coffee, I’m treating myself to banging on to you ! ( though it would be nice to think it’s of benefiT to someone else..)

OP posts:
Treatedlikeamaid · 26/06/2020 08:33

💐

OP posts:
Treatedlikeamaid · 26/06/2020 08:39

I know I’ve totally outed myself to a certain mate 😏obs don’t tell your hubby

OP posts:
Craftycorvid · 26/06/2020 08:56

Good luck, OP, you sound great. I haven’t RtFT but I’d like to suggest you take all the things you have said about starting a business and remove all uses of the words ‘little’ and ‘small’ then read the sentences back to yourself and see how they sound.

Swipe left for the next trending thread