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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

20 years in it’s dawned on me...

994 replies

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/04/2020 11:57

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

OP posts:
TeaForTara · 17/06/2020 21:48

Don’t blame yourself or be so hard on yourself. Replace being devastated that you didn’t realise what was going on with self-congratulation that you are seeing it now. It’s the boiled frog scenario- it didn’t happen all at once, but bit by bit and all the while he was subtly adjusting your version of reality. But now you’ve realised what’s going on and you are doing something about it. That’s brilliant of you.

Stop telling him about your business! Like pp have said, he has an ulterior motive in wanting to know about it and I’m sure you will come to regret it. Possibly it’s just so he can say he helped you to establish a so he has a stake in it. Just be vague and don’t go into any details.

Treatedlikeamaid · 18/06/2020 23:16

Again, I don’t know wher I’d be without you all. I started wring to you individually and then realised you are all saying the same thing, and boy do I need to hear it. I would NEVER have thought him being interested is control, but now you mention it..it’s him popping in with advice. And I’d never have thought he’s wasting my day, but Now you mention it...This morning he plonked himself down with a coffee and asked questions ..so I carried on typing till he went, I just can’t switch mind tracks to be suddenly explaining what I’m doing - I lose my thread. So YES. A sign, and set coffee breaks. I think he thinks he’s helping/enjoying helping and we are both v worried about money so I guess it’s fair he’s hoping I’ll earn. Just the irony after years of disapproval is not lost on me.
I’d like to thank you all for the votes of confidence..and you know, I would like to answer you individually, you’ve all made such good points, so here goes...
Broken into two posts so you don’t get overwhelm!

OP posts:
RandomMess · 18/06/2020 23:25

All this help and advice and monopolising is so he can either blame you if it doesn't work out or take the credit if it does...

Why isn't he too busy working on his business to come and interrupt you?

Treatedlikeamaid · 18/06/2020 23:26

Thanks Katy. I didn’t even realise that The comment had sent me spiralling down. Of course it had.
Tonight I got something off to my new employer ( go meeee!) super quick and he said, was I sure it was right? I mean, in front of the kids! So I turned it into a joke, but really?
Thanks for gently reminding me to focus on getting out, not self blame - that is a bleak rabbit hole indeed.
I love how well written your post is😀how the end comment takes me back to the beginning. V. clever! Just a quick q, how is he making it about him..? Is it because he’s telling me what to do, asking detailed questions ..so I’m busy servicing his need to be involved rather than getting on..
Thickfast, thanks for that! The subtleties are what makes it so hard. For years I thought something was up. But many domestic abuse help websites Focus on the extreme side of things, which isn’t me, so once again, I fell back into thinking I must be rubbish. It’s an awful trap.
Hi random! Yup. Went along with a lot. Thanks for the warning. I’m absolutely sure you are right.
Tork, thank you and yes, I agree. I will look for a group. One thing I’ve learned is that it’s essential to see friends on zoom. To keep you out of the wierd bubble the two of you create.
Vodka, that is so nice of you! Here’s to your funny feelings, you were right! I really hope this means I can mentally unstick my self.
Billy, will do. I will keep a time sheet I think. And see what’s happening.
Thank you for the vote of confidence. It means a lot.
Yes vodka, he says things with such authority that I do question my thinking. It’s thanks to you guys that I’m now seeing his comments as just hot air and ignoring them.💐💐💐💐thank you.
I’d LOVE to be one of the designers with good business sense! In theory, at last I can work on my biz openly, so I should be able to crack on. I must have some business sense, surely?!
There are a MILLION people selling stuff now. Ulp. I can do this! Smiling and waving 😀thank you from the bottom of my proverbial xxxxxxxx

OP posts:
Treatedlikeamaid · 18/06/2020 23:31

Oh yes random. It did occur to me to wonder. And that is the pattern from before...
Am extremely worried that we are both being dreamy idiots and heading to disaster. I HAVE to get something off the ground, yet it’s all happening so SLOWLY. I really need to focus, and get that sign up.
Can I swear on here? Would like to do a lot of terrified swearing atm!
Thanks.

OP posts:
TeaForTara · 19/06/2020 00:35

Swear as much as you like.

Treatedlikeamaid · 19/06/2020 05:50

Ha! Thanks tea!

OP posts:
KatySun · 19/06/2020 06:49

Yes, basically he is taking your attention when you should be working. He is giving you unsolicited advice when you are not asking for it, which makes you question your thinking. Bluntly put, he is making it about his need to know everything, and have your attention.

And then you say, it is fine, he is being approving (I paraphrase) so what you are doing is framed in relation to him, instead of how you feel about it and what you think.

I cannot remember who posted it above, but the piece of advice to find someone else to share your work and business ups and downs with is spot on. It is natural to want to have someone to share with. But that needs to be a positive and mutually affirming experience. Not have you questioning yourself.

Control is really subtle. And even the extreme examples do not start off as extreme. We are not taught what to look out for and it is only once you realise you have no time for yourself, that everything you are doing is being monitored and commented on, and in some ways limited, that you start to question things.

So for example, a case where a woman has to sit in front of a video-camera every time her husband goes out so that he knows she is not doing anything he would disapprove of - we immediately see that as control. But constant interruptions and discussion about what we are doing - harder to define because the person doing it can just say they are showing interest and being supportive but the effect is still that he thinks he can come in when he wants, take your attention, know everything you are doing, and put his views on it. (He is just being a human camera, really).

AuntieMarys · 19/06/2020 07:03

Sounds exactly like my ex. He used to say how lucky I was he allowed me to go to work in a job I loved and was very successful at....but hated when I was praised and rewarded for it by management .
I trod on eggshells for years, until I had the balls to divorce him.

Treatedlikeamaid · 19/06/2020 09:02

Katysun I love your clear and simple definitions. You throw a very clear light on what is happening and I would not ( haven’t in the past) noticed for years. You’re right! Suddenly it takes us both to go to lidl, he needs company on a walk..wants to see the photographs...thank you, again I was getting sucked into thinking he’s interested. It’s vital then that I find support. Your phrase of a human camera is chilling.
Auntymarys, I feel for you - that’s exactly the same. Well done for divorcing. Very tough.
Another Friday. I have GOT to get focussed, feel like I’m wading through treacle. Big hugs to everyone

OP posts:
RandomMess · 19/06/2020 09:15

Start saying "no"!

If he wants to go to Lidl with you "Oh, you're not too busy, that's great!!! Here's the list, I have so much work to be getting on with that would be a great help."

"No you can't come with me (on a walk) I desperately need some time on my own to chill. If you need company ask one of the DC"

Or you've arranged a phone call with X etc.

He will look so unreasonable if you then refuses to shop for you or dictate you can't go out on your own!

RandomMess · 19/06/2020 09:17

You have MY permission to say that you are too busy!!

You have two children that he can spend time with or help him with stuff....

It's all about you being kept focused on him Angry

Vodkacranberryplease · 19/06/2020 10:49

Also how about a few diversions for him? Things he thinks you're trying to get done but aren't that could just get him to spin his wheels for a bit? Or things he thinks are important that aren't.

I did this with ex biz partner and it was rather fun. I'd pretend that I really wanted something or wanted to do something and he would waste loads of energy trying to sabotage it. Add a few things and suddenly he's very busy.

RandomMess · 19/06/2020 10:57

You need to use phrases such as

"Don't be silly you are 45 you can go for a walk without me"

"Stop disturbing me when you are having a break"

"No can do, too busy working"

RandomMess · 19/06/2020 11:00

Stop believing that just because you are a women/his wife that you have time "nice" or that you have to put him first.

Sure I prefer it when my DH comes on a walk with me and the dog but he only does at weekends - that's his compromise. Sometimes only one day as well depending on if he wants to go on a super long bike ride or he is just literally too tired.

Vodkacranberryplease · 19/06/2020 11:02

Or you could say maybe you do x while I do y - y is the thing you don't want to do of course so he suddenly want to do y and you do x. You know his buttons OP. Use them!!!

He's in cooperative mode because his long game is your money etc (his ego can't leave you along to make it of course). And he'll be proving himself all the time (saying that in front of the kids).

I think if you can be one the most manipulative woman ever meaning almost none of what you say and saying exactly what he wants to hear you'll get a lot past him.

Essentially what I'm saying is honesty with him is your enemy. The ex biz partner would ask me to explain things to him and I'd then here him explaining it to someone else passing it off as his expertise. Eventually I started inserting mis information in there so they thought he didn't know but I didn't do it fast enough or often enough and eventually they all thought he was an expert 🙄. So the odd slip up was forgiven.

Best to say you don't know. Dont know much but means well. Admiring of him but needs his help. You know who you have to be - its a balance. Too dumb and he'll treat you like shit. And you won't be able to keep this one rolling too long so may need to switch it up.

And @Treatedlikeamaid when I mentioned designers I wasn't talking about you! I hadnt clicked that you were in that field and was talking about people Ive worked with in a totally different field! So my humble apologies and please don't take it to heart! I think you sound very business minded which is why I mentioned it.

And you may not have the 'killer instinct' but my god you're sharpening up every day and there's plenty of support around! Groups, forums, and don't be afraid to talk to solicitors. A good one will give you the advice and let you take it thereby costing you only the hour or two you spend.

Vodkacranberryplease · 19/06/2020 11:03

Oh and re the walk. Pretend to take up running or cycling - something you know he won't want to do with you. You'd be amazed what you can fit in lightweight running jackets and then the next hour is yours x

TorkTorkBam · 19/06/2020 11:48

Outside of business hours quiz him about his business. Don't offer any advice or even comment. Just friendly interested questions. Keep the topic away from you and your business.

TorkTorkBam · 19/06/2020 11:51

Can you find a way to work physically outside of your home?

It makes a massive difference.

You avoid the human camera (love that analogy), you can get into flow and deep thinking due to lack of interruptions, you don't have the anxiety of "oh shit, I need to be on high alert with my anti-interruption moves" every time you hear a noise.

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/06/2020 23:38

Thanks, I’m hearing you! I’m finding it really hard to write a reply, wierd! So much to think about.
Random, It's all about you being kept focused on him Im seeing you are right! I wondered for ages why he asks daft questions when I am busy so I have to come and help. Am learning to say google it!
Vodka you are a genius saying I’ll do x when I want him to let me do y! And no, I won’t take it to heart! Am too busy absorbing your great advice! It’s more me - I’ve always been told that I’m arty not businesslike, so lots of limit g beliefs for me to challenge there 😀
I think you couldn’t have summed it up better tork - oh shit, I need to be on high alert with my anti-interruption moves" every time you hear a noise. I will definitely be sloping off whenever possible,good thinking.
What you are saying ties in with this week’s counselling..she is teaching me to be more assertive. The idea is that he’s behaving like a spoilt child, getting more extreme as his behaviour isn’t checked. If I change, Apparantly he will.
Back to reading! And odd, he came in and cooked dinner and chatted to dd and me, in a nice way and was very complimentary earlier. Odd.
And it’s Father’s Day tomorrow. He totally forgot Mother’s Day. he sent flowers to his mum But nothing for me, at all. and IHad to work out if I should be/ could be a bit miffed. Decided I was. But it’s meant I can’t be arsed with Father’s Day. Haven’t even reminded the kids. Had to teach him to act delighted with a present off the kids even if it’s not a Ferrari or whatever he seems to think he should get.and. I Can Not Be Bothered. I’m shocked at myself!
Happy midsummers eve!

OP posts:
Vodkacranberryplease · 21/06/2020 01:53

No Mother's Day? No Father's Day. Live by the sword die by the sword, baby. Do not say a word!

In fact use that day to bring up ways YOU are disappointed in HIM 😂😉 enjoy. You've got him on the ropes keep going x

Treatedlikeamaid · 21/06/2020 06:45

Lol! Thanks vodka! You are brilliantly wise and funny too ! Have a lovely day yourself xxxxx

OP posts:
Treatedlikeamaid · 21/06/2020 07:47

Re reading this, have started getting up at 6 ( May go for 5!) as it’s super peaceful and it’s that precious time yall are talking about.
I’d just like to thank you all for your incredible time and patience and advice.
Sitting here, fresh coffee, no hangover ( was drowning my sorrows a wee bit too often) because I now understand what’s going on - so I’m no longer so confused and not understanding why I was so miserable. I’m still anxious, but I’m not leaping up to rush to the Corner shop - I’m saying he could enjoy the walk there (!) I’ve a long way to go, but beginning to feel like I exist, a bit. Beginning to get my head round, ‘it’s my business, I own it!’ Rather than a grey shuffley sort of don’t dare do it really feeling.and that has got a lot to do with your wisdom. And is PRICELESS. Thank you 💐 💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐don’t go away yet though! ( yup, still needy!) coffee for all, and virtual eggs benedict xxx

OP posts:
RandomMess · 21/06/2020 08:11

Eggs Benedict is one of my favourites and I drink fresh decaf all day!

Those little steps are great. He must be silently shocked that you aren't running around after him! Every time he starts interrogating about your job you are either "I'm busy working stop interrupting me" or if it's at some other time give a bland response and start asking about his... with the little comments of "doesn't sound like you've got far despite their being 2 of you" 😆

Any discussions on money remind him his redundancy money is for the household to live on not just him personally! Do not dip into your pension, savings or salary!

Vodkacranberryplease · 21/06/2020 08:16

Eggs Benedict! That was my plan but Marks didn't have the hollandaise 😭

Remember two can play at the 'keeping you busy' game. At 6am you have time to do a bit of scheming.

There's a forum online where they string Nigerian fraudsters along, and they do a thing called safari, where they get these would be scammers to go all over Africa thinking they are meeting a victim. You could do a similar thing. Lots of trips to Homebase or the corner shop or wherever with him thinking there's something in it for him... and there just isn't.

Scotland would be your end game. But how? Figuring it out would be amusing though, wouldn't it?