20 years in it’s dawned on me...

[Treatedlikeamaid]

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

‘If somebody is investing time, resources, and energy into convincing you of your own worthlessness, that same somebody has revealed to you that they have a lot to lose if you don’t believe them‘

Quote from fugitivus off meckcity link. Thought it was a goody x

So many inspiring women on this thread!

The faking and illness is classic abuse!

I hope one day soon you are able to rescue your DC from someone who thinks it's ok to treat their partner this way. I know you wouldn't want them to repeat the same pattern.

One foot in front of the other, you can do this.

A few years ago I ditched a client after reading sick systems when someone here recommended it. What an eye opener.

Has he opted for anxiety related illness?

How are you reacting?

As everyone has said - small steps. And don't be put off. You don't have go global immediately! In fact, starting off small with your business, and with changes to your life, can be better than trying to do One Big Thing.

The kids will likely respond to taking on household tasks better if you increase their responsibility gradually rather than give them an intimidating list of things to do straight away. Likewise, with your business, get a Facebook page going, get busy on Social Media before you throw yourself into a website. That way you have people you can unveil your website to, and a list of followers to signpost to your website.

A website nobody visits is a waste of time.

Build up gradually. Small steps means setbacks are smaller.

Never heard of sick systems before. , what a read. I guess the thing with counselling is that you should find it useful and help you work your way through the muddle. But if you’re finding that she doesn’t understand abuse then you can find a new one.

One idea I’ve found really useful over the years is the idea of the drama triangle. So draw a triangle and at each point write rescuer, perpetrator or victim. The drama triangle is all about power and keeping people in certain positions. Although you can also swap between positions. Him being ill (victim) is a way of trying to keep you looking after him (rescuer). At some point, if you get so fed up and burnt out by looking after him (rescuer) you end up exhausted (victim) and he’s the perpetrator by exhausting you. So you’ve now both swapped positions but still in the triangle of power. Basically this cycle goes on and on and on forever unless you manage to step out of the triangle. Which it seems like you are doing now. But he will try to get draw you back into this dance. I found that once I’d learnt about this I noticed it was everywhere! People being all ‘poor me’ as a means of control. People ‘rescuing’ people as a means of control and people being perpetrators as a means of control. If you don’t find this useful or it makes no sense then ignore the lot of it! Just thought I’d share something that resonated with how I manage to be my own person and not get drawn into power struggles.

I posted the sick systems link on another thread and also read it for the first time, Omg welcome to my working life. For years. Once you see it you can't un see it.

When he was doing it I didn't twig for ages but then after a while noticed things like, for example, if I was going away he would create a MASSIVE argument the night before. I started hiding the fact I was going away but forgot his sister was on my Facebook. Cue massive argument. One of the few things you can do is ensure they know nothing about you, especially about what's important to you.

The second they know it matters they will ruin it. If you think he will blink first you are wrong - he will cause severe consequences for you if you try to do what he doesn't want eh leave him to do childcare he will put them in danger, It's s as ok about who has the most to lose - and that my dear is you. Because you gsvdd Ed no leverage over him.

Thick fast one of the most dangerous things you can do with these people is to try and work out your part in it. I lost years doing it, when all along it boiled down to his dysfunction. My behaviour made zero difference. All that happened was I wasted an extra 5 or so years thinking if I could manage my own emotions etc something would shift.

The only way I ever got it to stop was by going to a solicitor and getting him out of my life, typical interpersonal dynamics do not apply here.

I thought that vodka after I posted it. I’ve found it so helpful in my life but then wondered if actually it was a pointless exercise in this particular situation. Oh well, maybe it’ll help for other scenarios. Or maybe not. It all depends on what fits, doesn’t it?

Absolutely Thickfast - if you are dealing with normal (whatever that is) people it's different. But these ones are so manipulative going down the rabbit hole of 'what is my part in this' is just death by a thousand papercuts. You have cbt/therapy to get out, or after, but not to 'examine the relationship' because there isn't a relationship in the normal sense of the word. It just allows them more time to mess you up and you become even more convinced it's your fault. Ugh.

OP this is no doubt all a terrible shock and I hope you are ok. It does help knowing what you are dealing with but equally it's not a nice thing to realise.

Thanks vodka, yup, it’s horrid all right! Will write more tomorrow, lot to work out xx

Am a bit devastated tbh. Realisation of all the stupid stuff I’ve gone along with. And just couldn’t see. How could I not see? Because it’s sooo subtle. And you get into a kind of bubble of ‘normality’ except it’s not normal and you don’t realise - until you hang out with other people.
It’s just been one long struggle of struggle and depression and bad choices. What’s worse is I knew they were bad choices but after first child I was soooooo all over the place.and made bad decisions that had knock on effects.I guess we all do that..( please say you do!)

Atm things seem ok, I’ve got my job, yay! Which has already changed into something a bit more interesting, She is amazing, hurrah!
And he is pleased, and pleased for me to do my business at last. He says he didn’t understand why I was looking for rubbish jobs. Er, confidence and childcare.
( and yes, He does want to wander in and see what I’m up to, but hes encouraging!!!)
You are right about the distractions though .. kids, him, inlaws, mum..I’m just keen to Get Stuff Actually Achieved and for that I need to use all my skills to think clearly and be focussed.i need to Make myself zoom with mates - I was getting very hermit like- and I need to learn to trust my intuition. I still feel everything we do will end in disaster. And every day is mega anxiety, and I’m really cross with myself - like the poster that says they could have been well off by now except hubby made crap choices- that’s how I feel. Facing a very economical future!
Am putting any money I earn in an account to buy stuff for business. Am also wondering about starting a blog of the journey of starting a business from zilch. Hopefully it would be a record for me of what little steps I’m making and keep me focussed. And may help someone else. - that sounds very vain! But suspect it will have to be anonymous!

Honestly, how wonderful it would be if you could just turn round and say ‘oh f*ck off’ when he said he did not understand why you were looking for rubbish jobs.

That is so patronising and demeaning. How much support did you have when your children, especially your first, was a baby? Working full-time with a baby is hard, especially with no support; plus there was - my oldest is 16 - a lot of stigma still around going back to work full-time and putting your baby in nursery.

So instead of actually just focusing on the fact that you have brought up two wonderful children, which enabled him to continue to work, and now that they are getting older, you are finding your feet (well done you, and this is without even considering the abuse as an element because he won’t acknowledge that), instead of saying well done, and thank you for all you have done for us this far, he makes a comment about what you were doing before being rubbish which has sent you into a spiral of self-doubt and denigration about your past choices. I think that is quite toxic and it has made me annoyed on your behalf.

As regards your choices, as I have said before, it is very hard to think straight when someone is constantly undermining and emotionally manipulating you (add in the fog of new motherhood and the demands of small children). Be gentle on yourself. It is important to recognise the situation you are in to focus on getting out of it, not to go down a rabbit hole of self-blame about how you go there. Plenty of time to unpick that when you are out (if you still want to by that point).

Every day is mega-anxiety because he is micro-managing you. He wanders in to see what you are doing - yes he is encouraging but you have experience of when he has not been hence the anxiety. What about telling him if he wants to be supportive that he should leave you to work in peace for x hours? Do you think you would be able to do that?

Be aware of what he is doing but do not let it define your day. Job sounds wonderful - excellent, be proud of that. Blog idea also sounds wonderful, but yes, anonymous so that he cannot snoop. Next step, I think, is trying to get some boundaries around your time so he is not constantly interrupting you. It is not love and support, but control. He is bestowing his approval (at the moment) and making it about him. Which brings me back to where I started on this post.

*got there

It must be really hard to be having the realisation that your relationship isn’t what you had thought it was. But that is, like you said, because it’s so subtle. Blog sounds a good idea.

Going along with things was probably deep sun conscious self preservation to avoid the inevitable onslaught if you didn't.

Don't let him know when business is going well else he'll be having the money off you to support the family instead of him dipping into his redundancy money/savings/pension.

I'm sure he's being wonderfully supportive because he wants you to bankroll him as well as you doing everything else.

You will have a tendency to get addicted to his encouragement. It will hurt immensely when he removes it. You have to protect yourself by detaching from some of the good bits too. You would not do this with normal people of course.

Now is the time to set ground rules for not being interrupted and not sharing information about the business or what you are doing.

I recommend buddying up with a little group of others in the early stages of a new business. Like an NCT group for a business. Of course you need someone to share the little successes and dilemma but don't use him. The pandemic means those virtual support groups are more active than ever. It is a great time to find one.

Have you your own office/space to work in?

Put a sign up "do not disturb" for him and the DC!!!!

He's being nice? He wants something. Money almost certainly. But you are so busy keeping him nice by being nice back and talking about how well it's going with the job etc that you won't see it until... bam.

Then you say no. And mr nice vanishes in a puff of smoke.

Invent a debt that you are paying off. Don't say anything but that can be your go to reason for not having any money but having to work when you 'have to' 'admit' it. It won't make him nice but it at least buys you some time from handing the money over.

I'm glad the job is going well though! I had a funny feeling that woman might be good news for you. She will bring you up with the business so keeping being your wonderful self and as it grows there will be more/more interesting things to do and you can hire a different box packer!

She might even, in the future, put some salary into a different bank account if you explain things to her. 😉

He is neither your friend nor supporter.

He wants you controlled.

Please do not trust this awful man with information.

Don't be pulled in with false declarations of support or kindness.

Tell him nothing.
Be firm about not being disturbed.
Keep a note of how many times he does this.

Keep your financials hidden.

You are doing great.

For a more philosophical view around issues with relationship roles, try Erich Fromm, The Art of Loving. I found it really interesting, it leaves you to make your own mind up about the patterns you see, and what they mean to you.

I think Torks point about approval is important to really digest. Because when he's nice you want it to continue, it's not natural to say no you can't have my money for your on the face of it reasonable request that you have thought through very carefully and worded in such a way I look like a total bitch if I say no.

You want the nice ness to continue and so you say yes. Starting a business on your own in lonely and tough. There's no one to talk to and if he there, encouraging and approving it's very easy to wang to use him as a sounding board - he's got you questioning everything.

I'm not terribly prone to self doubt when I'm working/in business as a rule but there's no way any one person knows enough or can do enough on their own. You always want a second pair of eyes on it, a sanity check, a different point of view. So that's normal and healthy as long as it's not his..

And then there's the skills gaps. No one has all the skills. Organisation, business savvy, people management, attention to detail (accounts etc), ability to deal with suppliers/clients, a good eye for design/branding etc. A lot of this is not easily outsourced (or expensive if it is) and even if you do there will be parts that you can't outsource OR do very well.

For example most designers have almost no business sense. The ones that do often make a fortune. I am terribly organised. Appalling.

So you do need other people they just really can't be him. I'm not trying to be negative - I just know how deep the trap goes.

Anyway I've sworn off Mumsnet today as I need to work! Fantastic news, well done.

Stay two steps ahead with bulletproof reasons why you can't have over your money and you'll be fine. Even the nicest of these ones will see you success think great swiftly followed by 'what's on this for me and how can I get it'

I always knew when he was being nice there was a reason. And there always was. Every. Single. Time. 😂😂