20 years in it’s dawned on me...

[Treatedlikeamaid]

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

Thanks ladies, so nice to see a reply!
Nagsnova, thank you. Sometimes I feel a bit devastated as I realise just what he has put me through in terms of not seeing mum. Often by the time I got there I’d be a nervous wreck! It even got so that she wasn’t comfortable coming here, the vibes were so bad. Written as you’ve written it, it sounds awful. I can’t believe I didn’t just say, see ya! It’s because I know I’m in for weeks of arguments and, I got so that I was too scared to tell him. And yes, she always strengthens me and encourages me to use my talents. She has a brother who didn’t get chance to use his and it’s quite emotional for her.

I have a red flag over the pension thing too, and won’t be withdrawing anything unless I absolutely have to. He says ‘ there’s not enough to retire on so you may as well spend some now’ not sure that’s right!
Happy, I rather think you’re right - my confidence would grow. Last part time job I had he disapproved and said I was kidding myself etc but I still went, And it did help me feel more capable. It’s struck me as strange that this time he’s discussing it rationally rather than getting cross. Is that cos he’s learning to be nice? Or because it’s a more effective technique?

Twisty you are lovely, I don’t know what the best thing for me is. That’s why this is so hard. Am just realising how manipulated I’ve been. My mum too, says, ‘get on with your business!’ But I wonder if having to be up and out and different stimulus might give me a boost.
There just sooo much other stuff to do too! I sound really wet, even to me. Will keep mulling!

How old are your DC?

How many more years do you want to witness you being abused in front of them? Being taught that is how women should be treated?

He really sounds like my ex husband. Controlling and belittling behaviour but dressed up to make it look like they are doing it because they care about you.

What you say about him not wanting you to get above your station really resonates with me. The subtle sabotage is done so you don't realise.

I didn't realise how controlling he was until we split up. He'd always led me to believe I was the controlling one.

I'm sorry you are experiencing this. Don't let him make you think you aren't good enough to do what you want in life.

You don’t sound wet at all!! Think about everything you have realised over these last few weeks. Also, with this job, you can always just try it and see how it goes. It’s not like you’re signing your life away and if you do it you’ll never be able to change your mind. You sounded excited in your post about the job. Anyway, really not trying to tell you what to do. Don’t want to emulate your husband and pretend that I know best. I really don’t.

I reckon he’s trying new tactics on you. Trying to be nice instead. He won’t have suddenly had a personality transplant and become a different person.

*It’s struck me as strange that this time he’s discussing it rationally rather than getting cross. Is that cos he’s learning to be nice? Or because it’s a more effective technique?
*
He has picked up on your recent behaviour and he knows you are not responding in the usual way to his bullshit. So he's trying a new tack.

I appreciate that taking the job would perhaps mean putting your business on hold for a bit, but being the breadwinner and getting out of the house and away from his influence would give you a real boost of confidence. I for one would take it. You can always resign if it doesn't work for you. Most couples in your situation would opt for either partner to take any job right now to provide stable income.

How strange that you could and were expected to build a business while at home with the kids but he can't.

If he is giving you advice I would almost do the opposite as a default, he is very unlikely to be acting in your interest.

And go see your mum.

Random, 12 and 14. I hear you, but I’m not ready to think about leaving atm. Not sure how or where. I may be nervous of the massive effect on me and kids. We have been through quite a lot of major stuff in the last few years.
Thanks Simon, Controlling and belittling behaviour but dressed up to make it look like they are doing it because they care about you this is what it s isn’t it. Another painful shaft of reality. It’s hard to hear, and I seem to need to be told over and over again. I’m sorry you went through that.
Twisty, thank you, Of course you are right - I can see how it goes for a bit, it’s a 3 month trial before I’d get a contract, so of course I won’t be beholden to her, or letting her down. Finding today hard. Feel like another bit has just been picked off a scab! Off to keep busy and think some more. In the past he says,’get any job’ now it’s, ‘were ok for the moment’ exhausting.

It’s struck me as strange that this time he’s discussing it rationally rather than getting cross. Is that cos he’s learning to be nice? Or because it’s a more effective technique?
He's not learning to be nicer - he IS trying a different tactic as he feels you pulling away from his influence. He needs to be more subtle about his manipulation of you.

Consider this. You take the job full time and, for six months, really do your best at it, honestly focus on learning from it and the people you'll meet. Save as much as you can in a separate account and ADD to your pension.

Don't tell anyone of this temporary six month deadline - this is all in your head - your own gift of time to yourself.

Towards the end of the six months review how you feel generally. If generally positive give it another three months and so on. Break it up in manageable portions so it's not so daunting. And as another PP mentioned try to keep your hand in with your personal business. Does that feel more doable?

Take the chance OP but, whatever you decide, good luck. 🌹

In the past he says,’get any job’ now it’s, ‘were ok for the moment’ exhausting.
This is to keep you mentally and emotionally off balance. Don't let him.

12 & 14 and he's worried about them being alone 🙄 nope he just wants you stuck in the house!!!

I apologise for not having RTFT, and I'm sure there have been lots of developments made, I read some of the beginning and some at the end. I just really really needed to say:

My dad was EXACTLY like this with my mum. I couldn't even believe I was reading this. It destroyed her. I don't have any resentment about him in that sense, he passed away when I was a young teenager. But watching how my mum struggled to ever take a step forward, it's horrible to see. I've always tried to be in my mum's corner and she's made some great strides in later life. She has achieved a lot now, but I feel almost positive that she would have achieved so SO much more if she'd had some form of support and encouragement from the get-go. She's constantly lamenting what she could have had.

There's a chance my dad didn't deliberately mean to pull my mum so far back. I have a lot of anxiety myself and I strongly believe I inherited that from him. As his daughter I will always try to see the best in him. But that doesn't change the fact that I wish my mum had realised how amazing she could be regardless of his opinions. She had such a great business idea, such a beautiful mind for ideas. I often feel angry that she couldn't, and that's exactly what it was, she couldn't! People from the outside would look in and say 'well if you wanted to do something that much you'd do it regardless of what people think'. But if you have one person by your side that you talk to every single day about your plans and they seem truly concerned for you, of course you'll pull back and reconsider.

Your husband may love you, he may believe he wants the best for you but you owe it to yourself to find your full potential. If he has a breakdown while you do it, that's not your fault or your concern. As harsh as it sounds he should have been stronger. Please please push on with what you want to do in life.

Take the job. It will build.your strength. It will let you see the inner workings of a small business similar to your own. It will give you a huge boost I expect.

Do you think his business is viable? I found myself thinking he doesn't want you to take a day job to pay the bills and build the business in your spare time (as is normal) because then it will look bad that he is not doing the same.

Very near the top of the thread you wrote this:
Zaphod, I’ve been combing the internet for an examplethat could fit him, and yours is exactly it. Exactly. Even down to the not doing ANYTHING’because I’m working’.
Omg, that’s it.
It’s all organised so I do all the boring stuff. Then get criticised for not having an amazing job. Then He makes it sooo difficult to get to an evening course.
My Skills - just like your writing- are considered a waste of time, I can ‘forget about it’.
I had no idea. Or I did, but not consciously.
Blooming heck.

I am feeling history repeating itself.

Thanks all. Thanks cantarina.i suspect you are right and it is a different tack, it just feels wrong to be cynically questioning his every move. It’s also interesting to know most couples would take the job - if he gets a low paid job as well we are ok.
And thanks for the explanation, happy now. It is keeping me off balance! I like your ability to chunk it down. Of course I should do just that. And observe like a scientist.
Suckingdowndarjeeling, thank you for sharing that. I’m so sorry for your mum..and don’t want my dd to be writing the same about me. You have struck a massive nerve.
Your husband may love you, he may believe he wants the best for you but you owe it to yourself to find your full potential. If he has a breakdown while you do it, that's not your fault or your concern. As harsh as it sounds he should have been stronger. Please please push on with what you want to do in life.
Something else to pin above my desk.
Dh sounds like your father too, he has great anxiety from his own upbringing. The day he’s officially let go, and not feeling great, his mum calls to tell him he’s basically not bringing up our son properly and he needs to lose weight and..not really the hug and ‘you can do it’ you might expect. It feels like he can do no right, and his sister can do no wrong. She’s even having a tough time wanting to help but being so far away and working 16 hr days. She could tell us that, instead of his mum. What a family!
Sorry, deflecting. Bit of a lot to think about - but then you guys have all been through the same. 💐 many thanks for all your thoughtful posts. It really does help having you here.

"I’ve been combing the internet for an examplethat could fit him, and yours is exactly it. Exactly. Even down to the not doing ANYTHING’because I’m working’.
Omg, that’s it.
It’s all organised so I do all the boring stuff. Then get criticised for not having an amazing job. Then He makes it sooo difficult to get to an evening course."

This was my experience too!

Just found your thread. So glad you're getting great advice on here and finding some strength.

I left exdh for different reasons but the main being I didn't want dcs growing up in that environment. Exdh is a nice man and we're still friends but our marriage wasn't right. Dh now is amazing.

I hope you end up truly happy

Funny that he needs a full day with no domestic responsibilities to build his business, but you can't have the same. He wants you to draw your pension, and "work on your business", but somehow keeping the house chores and caring for DC. He doesn't want you to get the money for the pension and then spend 8 hours a day COMPLETELY focused on the business, as if you were in an office away from home.

Get the job, but be ready for him to make your life hell. If he is like my XH he will resist doing the chores. He will make you remind him, ask and fight for every single thing, as punishment. It will be exhausting. He may "get ill", so he needs to rest. He may say that minimum wage will not be enough and you'd be better at home. He may even buy some expensive piece of equipment, essential for his business. He will punish you for daringto get the job. Be ready.

I would frame him doing his share as

1. You need to do your share
2. You need to get the DC to do their share
3. You need to set a good role model to the DC by doing your share
4. You need to know how to run the house in case something happens to me like I get seriously ill from Covid (leave you)
5. I have done the domestic drudgery for years I'm not doing it all as well as working
6. It's a good role model for the DC to see that everyone need to work regardless of how much they learn
7. I need to work to build up contacts and skills to make my business successful, why wouldn't you want that?

Seriously have a list of statements and also questions such as "I need this for me, why wouldn't you want me to be happy?"

So his replies can be squashed with "so you want me unhappy stuck at home then?" He will never want to admit to this truth...

I'm so glad you're taking the time to step back and look at what's been happening. FWIW I think you will be brilliant when you take your first step towards success. I feel grateful that my mum was able to confide in me about how she felt. I sometimes blame myself for not being aware enough to tell her to ignore him, but I do understand I was too young. It's just frustrating. I'm pretty sure if you wanted to run your ideas past your kids (NOT within earshot of your husband), they will be very supportive. Don't feel bad keeping your plans secret from your husband, you're not having an affair. You have hope and dreams. I'd be so happy to see you starting a new thread in a few months time telling everyone how well you're doing!!

You don't have to win him round to agreeing you should take the job. That's where you've failed before. Just take it. Just do it.

The DC are much older now I need to do this for me, I'm not waiting until the youngest is 18...

It becomes very difficult to make decisions when you have a very strong personality (or a controlling person) putting across their perspective and you have been used to putting their needs and wishes first (and a lot of anger and emotional violence was used to achieve this) so there is a fear factor too. You no longer know if what you are doing is what you want to do, because they approve, or as a reaction to them - all of which ties you in knots.

The only additional comment I want to make here is to ask if you have read Mary Oliver’s The Journey.

hellopoetry.com/poem/5249/the-journey/

Worth a read if you have not.

Slightly off tangent here, but you could sell the house as a do-er upper (its probably not that bad). If it is priced accordingly, you might be better off, not spending money on renovations and wasting years waiting to do it. A young couple would probably be delighted to put their own stamp on it.

Dh actually chatted about it, his view is it won’t help the family as the kids will be alone all summer, the house will suffer, and doing housework will cut into his time getting his business off the ground

Your day won't be all about Meeeee.

He suggested I take some of my pension and pay myself the equivalent wage for a few months while I get the business going, and the question is, how much do I believe in my business

I want to empty your pension fund out to support my business and general spending whilst I stay on my arse not getting another job. Conveniently makes you entirely dependent upon me not just now from not taking the new job, from not doing your own business (which could potentially mean I get to sit on my arse all day spending money so you don't have enough to leave), but throughout the rest of your life.

Take the job. See other humans other than him. Have independent money. Keep him out of your business.

Tell him to withdraw some of his pension to pay you with whist you take care of all that pesky housework and keeping the kids company all summer. Minimum wage at the very least, if not more. Then work on your business in that time. You think he'd be that willing to front up his own nest egg the way he's suggesting you siphon yours? I cannot STAND hypocrisy, it makes my skin crawl.

Take the job op and see how it pans out. If it doesn't work, it's not a failure, it just didn't work out as expected. If you don't take it you'll never know.

Your dc are older and more able to look after themselves, they are the same age as me and my brother when my mum went back to work and that was absolutely fine.

Don't use your pension. Keep that, it might be worth more than you think when you come to draw it.

WhatCFeryIsThis well said.