20 years in it’s dawned on me...

[Treatedlikeamaid]

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

Take the job.

I'm guessing you didn't think much about what you yourself want to do - your priority was to take it to your H and see what he said? He has trained you, as KatySun said, to put emphasis on his opinions and downplay any independent thoughts.

Chatty or grumpy - they're just two ways to play the role of big boss man, which is how he likes to see himself in the family.

You have two good options here: focus on your business, or take this job. You could make either of them work for you. And unfortunately, he will attempt to sabotage whichever you choose. But it is still your choice.

Taking the job will be clearer when he tries to make you fail, protecting your time to build the business will be far easier for him to sabotage covertly and make you look unreasonable when you attempt to stand up to him.

Take the job, ensure he does his share around the house. Build your confidence, build friendships, keep the business as a sideline and when you want to do it full time "the rules"
for DH doing his share will be in place.

Well done on getting the job - you must take it - having a job is so much more than the money you take home - interaction, validation, pension etc

As for pension DO NOT access yours early unless you absolutely have to - its value will be diminished irrevocably.

A lot of what you have posted resonates with me - my ex used to make out I was rubbish with finance then occasionally dump a financial task onto me I think so he could moan an whinge and blame me for the consequences.

He was crap with money. I am trying to divorce the tricky bugger at the moment. We could have been wealthy in middle age, no mortgage etc, but he kept buying more & more expensive stuff at the expense of the big picture.

He also belittled anything I wanted for myself, like having hobbies - he’d sabotage my getting to classes by being late home & then making an unholy fuss about the dinner & if ever I had a weekend away with friends inevitably he’d be late home to pick up the childcare because of some unforeseen problem at work. Every single time.

At 12 and 14 the DC can look after themselves and most of the house.
Take the job.

Thanks everyone. Gonna be a long one! Sorry, mulling out loud- please skip! Basically games to persuede me not to take job.
Thanks incognito mum, how nice to hear you’re friends but the marriage wasn’t right, that’s lovely. And simonfromharlow, it’s nice to know we’re not alone!
Well, something is going on.. re job, His reasoning ( and mums) is..115 miles a week drive ( 1/2 hr each way) for £8.25 ph. It’s packing products into boxes so it will soon get dull, it might lead to you learning about business, but you could learn on your own business, you’ll miss the Xmas trade in your b. But be helping her get richer. Of course she said she’s looking to grow but that could be months away, meantime you are not doing your thing. ...
All sounds reasonable. Was a bit shocked at the, ‘we’ll need 2 cars you are not driving mine evry day’ ( mine is sorned atm) (maybe that’s reasonable, ) and at how I had to say, several times, ’ no, that’s an insult, we’ll discuss it but you won’t be rude to me’ . go me!
Also, and this is where I get confused.. yesterday he said we have enough, if we are careful to be ok for a while, and to go all out for my business, and his dad can loan us some.
Today he’s saying draw money out of your pension and fund your business. Then he’s saying it can go to your business and the household bills.
He has a small payoff that will keep us going for a bit- till ( I really hope) we sort it. In my humble, you leave the invested money where it is, use the payoff, and the pension is there in an emergency. He says he’ll get stressed watching the lay-off dwindle, I should put some pension money in. He does not get that we have £x in various pots and it doent need to all be in the current account atm - it’s still there as a backstop.
Then he got all, well, Why should I use my money that I worked for To keep the house going? And I said, you wouldn’t have that money if I hadn’t worked here running the house so you could work.
And he said, well both put £x in until it runs out ( then what does he do with his extra cash. Let us all starve?) . Also in one sentence his own pension dwindled quite significantly.
I’m not going anywhere near my pension(and possible escape fund) till we talk to an Ifa.
Eventually vaguely said it sounded like a plan, just to stop him talking.
The final thing was to then stress me out about needing Diy stuff for the house, but of course it has to be good quality, (why I don’t know when it will just show up how tatty everything else is.)
So.
We have agreed he’ll cook and shop (!!!) well clean together on Saturdays, and I’ll do washing etc. GOB SMACKED.
I have finally got the go ahead for doing my own business. Which is what I’ve wanted to do for years. My councillor said I’m very good at putting hurdles in my own way. I’m wondering if this job is that? And I should get on, he’ll for leather with own b. ( of course I’m terrified)
Although am keen to see normal people as it were, I’m now in touch with mates in zoom who are keen to help, so am not so isolated. Maybe I should give myself three months.
To be fair, He is working hard on a business with 2 others which could be good, but will obv take a while, and is applying for jobs. And feels the pressure of being sole earner.
Just find it all confusing.
The posterS that said it will be difficult to take the job is right I think.
This afternoon he was musing on planning a wedding. ( were not actually married, don’t know the term for long term fiancée!)
This is all games isn’t it.
Sorry so long . Kind of mulling out loud.

P.s. puss girl, yup. Hugs. Hugs. To all xxx

Wedding? Something that would give him the 'right' to demand half the house and half of your pension?

And would mean you emptying your pension fund to pay for it all in the meantime?

Take the job.

To prove to yourself that his opinions are not commands or vetoes.

His reasoning ( and mums) is..115 miles a week drive ( 1/2 hr each way)
30min commute is nothing. This argument is a joke.

for £8.25 ph.
Hell of a lot better than ZERO ph

It’s packing products into boxes so it will soon get dull
Yeah, so, if that happens you can quit or get promoted.

It might lead to you learning about business, but you could learn on your own business,
It is good to learn from other people's hits and misses. It is normal for entrepreneurs to work a shit job in their industry to gain knowledge.

you’ll miss the Xmas trade in your b.
Will you? Would you do no work on your business? I doubt it. Even if your takings are lower (lower than all the £8.25s between now and then?) you will gain knowledge to improve your Christmas 2021 (when people have money again hopefully)

But be helping her get richer.
Learning how she gets rich.

Of course she said she’s looking to grow but that could be months away, meantime you are not doing your thing.
You will literally be there seeing which parts of her growth plans succeed and fail. Gold dust that.

All sounds reasonable.
No it isn't. See above. Tbh I don't see why you were debating it. The choice is around which business you spend most time on for the next six months or so. If you really were going to be working on yours instead of hers well what's the difference to him?

Was a bit shocked at the, ‘we’ll need 2 cars you are not driving mine evry day’ ( mine is sorned atm)
He is desperate to keep you trapped, isn't he.

(maybe that’s reasonable, )
I can't imagine my DH sitting at home all day not using his car but saying I can't use it! Well, time to get your car back on the road (don't seek his permission).

and at how I had to say, several times, ’ no, that’s an insult, we’ll discuss it but you won’t be rude to me’ . go me!
That's a big step forward. Remeber end goal is to say no, that’s an insult, I am not talking to you about this any more.’ that's what people normally do if one person is insulting, which is attacking, which shows they are not engaging in good faith so it is a waste of your time.

Also, and this is where I get confused.. yesterday he said we have enough, if we are careful to be ok for a while, and to go all out for my business, and his dad can loan us some.
Ah, all the effort goes to HIM. Don't get a job. Serve him and HIS great job. Don't do anything mad like earning money when you can borrow.

I haven't bothered with the rest of his financial drivel.

He is saying absolutely any old shite to meet his goal of Do not let the woman be in an unsupervised space. She will get ideas.

He is trying everything to stop you. Even claiming he will do a small amount of wifework, even finally dangling the marriage carrot.

My councillor said I’m very good at putting hurdles in my own way. I’m wondering if this job is that? And I should get on, he’ll for leather with own b. ( of course I’m terrified)
Your hurdle you created is talking to him about whether to work on your business exclusively or part time around a job. You know he will never let you work full time on it at home. He will block you and wear you down at every turn and you know it. All you had to do was phone the nice lady say "I accept the job" then say "hey DH and kids, I'm starting the new job on Monday! Go me!" Instead you engaged in a long conversation with the hurdle maker.

I recently had this book recommended to me. It is brilliant. I suggest you read it.

Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It
by Chris Voss

Of course, you are negotiating permission for things when the other person can't actually force you anyway, it doesn't require a negotiation as to whether you the unmarried girlfriend draw down your pension to pay for his lifestyle so he can keep for himself his little nest egg. Same for your decision on how to split your time between businesses: totally 100% within your power.

Thanks tork tork.
Not awake enough to construct a sensible reply, but will mull overnight. Very much respect your opinions.

This afternoon he was musing on planning a wedding. ( were not actually married, don’t know the term for long term fiancée!) Girlfriend. No legal status in the word fiancée or girlfriend.

This is all games isn’t it.
Yes he's just ramping up. And putting hurdles in your way. Mental hurdles with the arguments to act in a way which only benefits him (are those working OP?) and physically- in stating you can't use his car. As another PP said - take up the job offer (ASAP) and sort your car out.

Go forwards not backwards OP. STRENGTH to you!! 🌹

I hadn't realised you were not married - getting married now just puts all your finances in his reach as then your pension and any other separate money you have, including from your business, would be marital assets and would be taken into account if/when you divorced. If works the other way too of course but I'm willing to bet he'd suddenly have "no funds" because he's spent or hidden them. I'm suspicious that he's suddenly talking about marriage as he feels you pulling away from his influence.

Just a reminder - who owns the house? Is that you alone or both of you together?

Oh God, he is desperate for you not to leave the house, isn’t he? He is talking about marriage to reel you in - and then if you take the job, no doubt that will be out the window.

However, you probably also need to speak to a lawyer at some point as well as a financial advisor - basically if you are not married, how much claim do you have on what would have been marital assets? Is the house jointly owned? I assumed you were married.

I cannot add much to what Tork says - except I am going to get that book to negotiate towards promotion at work (not directly, there is a pay freeze at the moment, but towards the activities which count) but the things which jumped out at me are this:

1. He is not going to let you use the family car to get to work, even though he is not going anywhere. Control.

1. He is not going to use ‘his’ money to support the family, or help you, you need to draw down your pension (madness, I am glad you see that; plus pointed out he could only earn it as you were doing the domestic stuff - also note the creep in purpose, from funding your business to also funding household bills...)

1. He is devaluing you - both in not acknowledging this job is an opportunity and by not acknowledging the years you have sacrificed so that he could earn money.

Do you put hurdles in your way? Tork is right that the biggest hurdle was talking to him; he has placed a massive web of discussion around you that you need to now peel off and unpick.

And as for him doing half the chores, sorry but whoop-de-do-da, he should be doing that anyway.

Does your mum know what your marriage is actually like? Or does she think you have more of a functioning partnership than you do? Because if she does not know what your husband is actually like on a day to day basis, she is not giving you advice from a fully informed position.

You see, I could understand the rationale for the argument that you concentrate on your business if your partner was supportive, and available money and time (not your pension) was going towards making that happen, if you were not having to fight every obstacle and if it did not seem that your partner’s bigger picture was control. But even then, given the current economic circumstances, I would still be tempted take the job for a few months to get a steady income. Are you making the equivalent amount of money from your business? I suppose that is the bottom line.

But yes, it is all games. A relatively straightforward decision has been turned into a gargantuan knot.

I am really concerned both by your financial status in terms of house and pension and that you are going to keep yourself trapped by NOT taking the job...

You have a chance to grow here, lovey. Take that job.

Your husband is not your friend; he wants to diminsh you and to drain you dry, I'm afraid.

This job is a crossroads for you and whatever happens in it, good or bad, getting out of the house will do you a hundred worlds of good.

FGS don't fall for the marriage line. Wake up. Plan (for you).

He is saying absolutely any old shite to meet his goal of Do not let the woman be in an unsupervised space. She will get ideas. this exactly.

OMG YOU ARE NOT MARRIED!!!

This is the best and scariest news ever.

Best: he cannot do anything to you or take your money or have as many rights over your children and cannot interfere with your health decisions

Scariest: you are so vulnerable!!! DO NOT GO NEAR YOUR PENSION. My mum was an IFA. You never, ever touch the pension. You get taxed on it if you withdraw early and lose the tax relief you had paying in.

Get the job for your cv. Take it take it take it. Then you have something on the cv to move elsewhere.

Fuck me woman, unmarried mothers should never quit work! You have no income protection if your partner leaves or dies. DO NOT MARRY HIM. omg do not marry him.

This makes life so much simpler. You can walk away! He has no legal capacity to control you!!!

Take the job. If you do it for 6 months it puts something on the cv and you make good contacts. You should work hard on your business too. Sit thr D.C. down and explain to them that for the next 6-12 months, you are going to be super busy but you are doing it to give them a better life. Ask them if they can help you during that time so that come the other side of it, you guys can have a nicer quality life, or at least be understanding that standards will slip and mum won’t be as available.

Then, pah, packing boxes is easy! Physically but not mentally draining. You can sit there all day raking in 8.25 per hour while scheming and planning. Then come home, quick dinner, chat with kids, then straight to 2 hours of work on your business. Make an agreement with kids that every Sunday morning they watch tv/lie in, and you will spend 9-1pm on your business.

It will be tiring, but when I got going as an academic being paid less per hour than the cost of my commute to the university, I worked three jobs and worked 18 hour days and one day at the weekend. Kept it up for about 3 years on my way to a permanent position. It was totally brutal but I made it through and now have a brilliant.

You got this!

AND BOOK YOUR FLUGHT TO SEE YOUR Mum!

Otherwise, your twat partner will say - if you are just working on your business - you shouldn’t/Mustn’t spend £30-100 per flight to see your mum because that money should be kept
In your business you selfish cow. AND HE WOULD BE SO SO WRONG but he would sound right.

You got a job! You legend! You can now un-sorn your car and get your freedom back.

He is realising that your business keeps you at home where he can control you. That’s better than you working somewhere else, having a car and access to the outside world beyond his control.

TorkTork has written my post for me. Even including the book (better on audible for some reason)
As for the wedding - so he can take half your pension. Men like this spend money on themselves without telling you so I think you need to see recent statements.

He's a joke. He will say and do literally anything to keep you under control and no amount of push back will change that.

@Treatedlikeamaid you are playing a dangerous game here. He has all day to sit around and scheme. My ex business partner was exactly the same. Meanwhile you are kept busy and are dancing like a puppet for him,

When I read about him not letting you visit your mum I felt sick. When are you going to stop being so nice, and trusting? When she dies and you've not seen her? When your kids leave home and it's too late to get back to work? When your whole fucking life has gone because you thought that it was ok for him to stop you using a car YOU PAY FOR for a 30 fucking minute commute?

When every single thing in front of you is showing you it's the wrong thing to do? Talk to your counsellor again. And again. Seriously. This is your life. You get ONE. And you are allowing this loser to piss it away and showing your kids that abuse and control are ok.

It is not possible to win here. When will you accept that no matter how many slogans you put above your desk and how much work you do on yourself and how many nice things people say on mumsnet nothing is going to change? This is not a game you can ever, ever, ever win - and more crucially not one you can ever manage.

I guess, like many people, you'll have to find out the hard way. You'll do what do many women do and leave when you are 60 something. And you'll look back at the life you could have had and have nothing but regrets.

It's so sad the way so many women lack the ability to see what is as opposed to what they wish it was. They think they alone can change him, fix him. That there's magic words to use and talking will make him see sense. That the problem has a solution that doesn't involve upheaval and pain. It's the oldest trap in the world. I hope you find the courage to see it one day for what it really is and understand that there is no solution.

If this sounds bleak, and hard, I'm sorry. I had someone just like him for 13 years (work only) and it has left me very deeply scarred. I wasnt there because I had hope or couldn't bear to leave (actually I didn't want to leave my business which is not tiny) - I was there because I didn't know my options legally. And it didn't matter what I did he did not get better. Even when we had given 30 days notice of a board meeting (a vote to add a director, friend of mine, which would fuck him) he couldn't stop being a prick (apart from a few moments of bargaining and being nice which he couldn't sustain).

There is a way out. But you need a very good solicitor and to as the Americans say 'grow a pair'. Or else this is pretty much going on forever as he won't let you work in peace or start a business without ruining it.

@KatySun it's a great book. I got it based on a rec here and it's on the money. But I have an employee 'negotiating' at the moment (plus a newly pregnant one) and it's pissing me off hugely. They want to take their customer facing roles and work from home (so other people pick up the slack of dealing with customers including me, and an extremely busy manager) and we are not even back yet. So be careful it's not corona madness driving this.

My advice would be to be the one person they can trust to do their job well, do extra to help, and have initiative - but not ideas unless you are the one implementing them. Honestly I'm sick to death of everyone's 'ideas'. It's people to DO things I want.

And fgs wait. So many people are going to the wall now. Give it a couple of months of being just damn great, letting the business settle down/recover and the owner feel safe... then ask. You'll get it.

Act now and you are just another one in the queue of people who spent lockdown overthinking. FWIW. Sorry about the hijack OP.

Please please please just take the job!!! You don’t have to convince him. Using your pension when someone is willing to pay you is batshit fucking crazy. Take it now , if you dither and wait till he’s on board it will be gone.
If you don’t take it, in a week he will be being a shithead, you will be the household slave with no time to do your business, and he will say accusingly ‘well if you’d taken that job you’d be bringing money in instead of being a dead weight on me the same time I get laid off.’

Fair point vodka - I was not particularly planning on starting a negotiation now (I am still recovering from covid 19 apart from anything else).

But I have been the person doing my job well, doing the extra to help, implementing my own good ideas for ten years now; and there are people coming in who are confident, loud and self-assuming, who are just leap-frogging over me. And corona presents opportunities to do this even more in my line of work. So yes, in reality, I will keep on being the person who just gets the job done quietly and the opportunities for getting the roles which matter for promotion will go to them.

Ha, no problem, hi jacks welcome.
just said I was going to take the job, and start part time and he said, 'I knew youd do that" which was a LOT better reaction than anticipated. though suspect it could turn.
Thank you so much for the heads up. I needed to hear that.

have emailed her to accept job. shes v nice - its part time atm, and can build up. I AM concerned that 40 hour week will stop me doing anything else though.
Ideally I will build up buisness, but you are right, I need to grow a pair. hoping part time will give me focus - wasting fartoo much time being confused. Thanks all