20 years in it’s dawned on me...

[Treatedlikeamaid]

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

It is okay, it was very stressful but a learning experience and ultimately the only way to get boundaries around the situation. The judge referred us on for more mediation after making the order, which was somewhat pointless but things did settle down a lot after that. Basically, the judge found for me in terms of the contact but was clear that we should work out a way for it to progress (there are so many variables I won’t go into). Three years on, contact has not really progressed at all and he may as well have made a final order but I found the whole thing helpful overall (if stressful and expensive). The situation is much more manageable if not resolved.
Anyway, I am not sure what my original point was!

Actually I need to change that slightly - the judge did not find for me, he upheld the argument I was making regarding DC’s best interests for contact.

@bringon2020

You can do it. Nothing stifles creativity more than someone's frowning face and demands for dinner on the table!

@zaphodsotherhead thanks a lot! I'm still in the very beginning and still have a long way - both until I can live of my writing, and until I'm divorced (it will be ugly).

He used to demand that I got a job, but he wouldn't do the chores to free me to spend time job hunting. And he also said I had to find a 30k job, not a minimum wage one. He said writing was indulging on a hobby.

Are they all given the same textbook to read?

I wouldn't hold your breath about being able to live off your writing (I'm sixteen traditionally published books in, three award winners and I still have to work in the Co Op to pay the bills).

But yes, I reckon they all work to the same script - it's called How To be Selfish!

What I think you need to ask yourself is why do you want so little for yourself? A tiny flat on benefits? Really?

Is that all you think life after him would be? That doesn't sound like a life you would joyfully rush towards? Is that all you think you are capable of? Is that all you think you deserve?

I think that the more you do for yourself - talking to friends, meeting up with them, finding some kind of exercise you enjoy, thinking about your business and what you could do without his carping at you - then the more you will question your view that all life has to offer is nothing.

I started a business in my mid 40s in an area I know nothing about and I'm the most disorganised person you will ever meet 😁. With no qualifications in any area. And it's a success - now I've got rid of the narcissistic biz partner it's working again.

I just don't know why women always seem to ask for so little. To always take the job with shit pay when the money jobs are actually easier. Leaving awful husbands with nothing but their clothing when there's marital assets. To think that life will only ever be a financial struggle. It's heartbreaking to watch. Men with far less intelligence and talent, and no morals get it all while women talk about how 'at least they are happy'

You can be happy and have money too! They are not mutually exclusive! You don't have to be some kind of amoral psychopath to make money!

Money is freedom. To see the world, be comfortable in your old age instead of frightened and alone. To have maybe the therapy you need or even just live in a safe area with a decent sized fucking garden. Don't you fucking deserve that after all this shit?

Hi katysun, maybe your point is ( or I think) that you are super, strong, amazing and just.well, amazing. To go through all that and now be wise and supportive on here, well. 💐to you x

Bringon, did I write your post? That’s EXACTLY what happened, but instead of cleverly realising he was a twit like you, I thought it was cos I was rubbish/ not working hard enough. And worked harder. HOW did that happen ffs?

Zaphod, you are amazing to have achieved all that. Would love to ask you questions about your mindset and how you keep going...I imagine it’s pretty tricky esp. when you first start such a huuugggeee project not doubt yourself into giving up. Well done, amazing!

Vodka, oh yes, I’d like to earn a LOT of money - it’s essential, and before kids I did. 😐 till I got utterly conned. ( as I see it now) I used to travel, have adventures etc. And , oh! Just remembered, feel proud of my achievements!
think I’m trying to say, even if the worst happens, i will have a flat and food. But you are right - that is a thought that makes me feel down and struggling. I much prefer your mindset, of a life you will joyfully rush towards. What a great saying - that’s going above my desk!
I think I’m just terrified- I’ve incredibly limited beliefs about my ability to be a business woman, And am incredibly disorganised. though I’m good at what I do , So am listening to endless ,’you can do it ‘ tapes on you tube! I’m delighted you Got a business off the ground, aaannnddd dealt with an awful partner, you are made of strong stuff. I love that you say you are disorganised And no qualifications, that is totally inspiring.😀Any tips welcome!
Managing to get anxiety down after a super chat with friend that lives abroad and has an amazingly flexible attitude to life - she lost everything in some coup somewhere. And quoted Zarathustra (!) shes that sort of lady, apparantly all the wise people of the world say, ‘don’t worry about it till it happens’ so have chosen not to worry how I’ll be homeless, but instead worry how I’ll cope when I have to choose which island to buy!
Maybe sitting in my room staring at the computer while this amazing sun is out isn’t the most productive use of time. Still floundering, but getting there!
Don’t stop with the advice! Please! You are being incredibly helpful xxxx( May be appearing needy! But then, maybe I am!)
💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐

I’ve incredibly limited beliefs about my ability to be a business woman

I see this a lot. You have a deep preconception that every successful person is as together as Bill Gates and was like that from the start. Super heros. You are ordinary not a super hero so you doubt yourself.

Most successful companies are owned by people muddling through, making mistakes all the damn time and adjusting accordingly. I'm not talking Tesco and Ford. By successful, I mean that plumbing company that's based in your town, the wedding photographer, the dental practice, the supplier of taxidermy animals to the film industry or whatever. People who have a very nice amount of money thank you, some employees, at least some passive income stream and enjoyment of the thing they offer to people.

I think there is a reason so many of us disorganised people build good businesses and get the money jobs. It often leads to repeated fast cycles of Do, Learn, Adapt. This is powerful.

You feel a disorganised mess, all over the place, because there's no detailed plan of what you will be doing next month. Yet the reality is you are navigating the constantly changing reality until your successful business bears little relation to your original ideas.

Like Amazon. Many of my big corporate clients use Amazon Web Services as a huge part of their infrastructure. Nowt to do with books or shipping retail consumables but managing huge scalable IT in the cloud.

What successful business women do is that they do stuff. They go and do something. Then they see what is working and what is failing and they adapt what they are doing. All the damn time.

You don't need to be Alan Sugar to do that. You don't even have to be particularly smart. You just have to be open to doing stuff, failing and succeeding.

Paul McCartney didn't bang out a mega hit song the first time he picked up a guitar. The first time he and John Lennon tried to write a song together it wasn't a hit.

Look at Victoria Beckham the first time she was on screen vs what she is now. You couldn't predict it, she couldn't have predicted it, I bet she would have laughed her socks off at the start that she'd end up doing what she's doing. She certainly knows how to try stuff, learn from it and improve/change direction.

Gosh, that was a long post. Sorry.

It's my pet topic: nice sensible people, especially women, considering themselves incapable thus being stuck where they are. Meanwhile blundering idiots (and some smart ones) are in the good jobs and running the good businesses just through the act of actually having a go at it.

Treated, I spent 16 years in this relationship, 10 years after having kids. It takes a long time to see the abuse, specially if we grew up in an abusive home. I had to "see" first how abusive was the environment I grew up. Then I "broke up" with my mum. Only THEN I could see the abuse in my marriage, and then finally take the decision to separate.
It is a long process.
Zaphod, I know, living off writing is hard...
Vodka, I see your point, but PLEASE don't shame women for their lack of confidence. I thought of a tiny flat on benefits because that's all I thought I could get - and that's why I stayed so long on the marriage. I may always live in a tiny flat, maybe not. But I'm not afraid anymore and I'm proud of that.
I want to think about money in a different way. I'm working on that, but in the meantime I won't be ashamed of it. I'm a product of a society/ family that says that women have to struggle, that comfort and desires are to be denied. That's what I was taught. I'm "unlearning" this and in the meantime I. Won't. Feel. Ashamed.

@torktorkbam that's inspiring! I feel like printing your post and hanging on the wall by my desk.

Omg ladies , Tork, that is a wonderfully long, inspiring post. I’m printing it out too.its arrived just as I was having a post lunchtime wobble - dh is having a rough time with being redundant, obviously, and it’s a lot to hold up, and I’m trying sooo hard not to let his depression affect me.
So what a nice boost to get x
Bringon I think you’ve achieved LOADS and are right to feel extremely proud of yourself. It seems to me you have created a base from which to climb To the successes you want for yourself - like Tork and vodka say - and you are on your way. Super well done. That is immense and a massive achievement.
Thanks for the mentioning it’s taken you ages to see as well. This is marvellous, for years I felt stupid or over sensitive and now I know I’m not. So well done for having the courage to leave. That’s immense.

Tork, I’m adding your post to my increasingly wonderful list of inspiration to read ALot. Most of its from here.
On with the afternoon. I HABE to get rid of these awful self doubts. I think the trouble is I don’t seem to do stuff. Just seem to wobble through and somehow the days gone.
You feel a disorganised mess, all over the place, because there's no detailed plan of what you will be doing next month. Yet the reality is you are navigating the constantly changing reality until your successful business bears little relation to your original ideas.
That’s it exactly, I love the reframe xxx

There's a lot to be said for channeling your self doubt into action. Choose a little aspect of it and do that little thing. See how it goes.

For example, "Oh god, if I am successful I will have to do sales conversations but I am rubbish at that kind of thing."

Then you think, right, today I am going to talk to a stranger in the socially distanced queue. You discover that you felt stupid because the person clearly didn't want to talk to you so you crashed and burned. You learn to shake of the agonies of mortal teenage-style embarassment at having been a weirdo. You learn you tend to feel like that but can shake it off surprisingly well if you imagine yourself telling your best friend about it while howling with laughter.

Next time you carefully time your queue position to be near someone friendly looking and try again. It goes well. Hooray. You learn how you feel afterwards. You learn whether you react sensibly if you are in the same aisles ten minutes later.

The time after that you somehow get into the conversation that you are an artist.

Within a few visits you'll probably have a new useful person in your network and some new ways of thinking about what your business is.

Small doings to work on the thing you might be weak at.

You should be a life coach! I love this..
You learn you tend to feel like that but can shake it off surprisingly well if you imagine yourself telling your best friend about it while howling with laughter ho ho! That’s brilliant.
Also, supplier of taxidermy animals to the film industry?!!!
Thanks for the tip about small doings ( phnaar phnaar)...also for the post earlier. I realised am under massive pressure to make a lot of money in first year of trading, with no backing (but , finally, no put downs. ) . Your post helped put my mind into perspective - we need to be local hairdressers so to speak rather than Paul Mc Cartney. And I guess bringon, it’s ok to write and not be jk Rowling.
Have figured out how to use Trello. Got an app, got a life!
I also may have had a glass of wine so not too sure if this is the best writing in the world. Handing over to you, bringon!
Thank you so much for the tips tork. I really appreciate them xxx

Thanks! I work with start ups and growth stage businesses. I swear my supposedly technical management role is actually 80% being their therapist

I love all the crazy little businesses that exist but nobody really thinks about.

If there is a movie that has stuffed animals as props then you can be damn sure there is someone out there with a niche business in supplying them.

Maybe your child you loves a glitter pen? Somebody designed that. Somebody imported it too.

Start looking at things around you. Almost everything you see or use is as a result of someone's niche little business, even if they sell through Amazon or always work through an agent/central sourcing.

Tork Tork you've got it in one. A shit load of mistakes but then it's 'next!' I had no formal business plan but always a clear direction (forward. Up) Honestly, let's look at the men in the business world. Are they really that much more clever? Talented? No - but they will give it a try and not care if they fail a few times. It's not rocket science.

@Treatedlikeamaid don't think you can't get there again, this is NOT it. It is NOT over. You don't need to reinvent the wheel just carve yourself out a niche in a market that isn't full of super smart People (which would be most of them). Go in with a clear idea of how you can add value - as in how can you do things that will work for your clients AND be easy to monetise. If people arent prepared to pay for it, it's not worth doing. That's my rule. Don't fight an uphill battle.

Don't go into a crowded market unless it's very lucrative and you can do it really well. Every tine I hear of someone wanting to 'follow their dream' I groan inside. Yoga teachers scrape a living together, only just. It's a great hobby do it for fun instead!!

Trust your judgement and instincts and ignore your fuckwit husband. That's the best advice I can give. If you feel, deep inside, that you can be successful then you will be. And even if you have doubts just keep going because really, no ones doing anything more than muddling along. They are just not admitting it 😁

I cannot add to the business or writing conversation but thank you for your kind words earlier.
One thing I do remember a counsellor saying to me about my xH’s harassment and demands was that he could say it, but I did not have to respond. She said to imagine it as a parcel but I could put it in the table, not take it on board and carry it around with me. Or something along those lines. This is what your comment about being under pressure to make a lot of money in the first year reminded me of. Well, he (I presume your husband is saying this) can say this but you can leave it on the metaphorical table.

This ties a bit with what I was thinking before I read your last post. In actuality, for me at least, juggling childcare (one of my children has additional needs) with my job is hard. I simply cannot compare my career progression with the average supported at home man or even woman these days. Even now my DS has just come down so I need to get to the point of what I wanted to say later ...

Following with interest, treated and cheering you on from the sidelines. I think that sometimes us women (and I’m only just discovering this in myself now) have absolutely no idea of how bloody good we are at stuff and where our strengths lie. I think the sheer biology of a man means he has far more self belief which is not always justified!! Just wanted to say that I have watched various male relatives and that definitely holds true. I always would have held them up as more capable than me but now can see they’re just blagging it. I’m generalising madly here but hey ho. Confidence is everything. Fake it til you make it and all that! I can see you growing in confidence even in the pages of this thread. You like a butterfly emerging from whatever that thingy mejig is !! Keep going!

A cocoon for the butterfly emerging and yes, that is a good way of looking at it, you will emerge and shine

What I was going to say earlier I think was for me at least, for a few years particularly during the stress and the court case, success was simply about holding on and keeping my head above water. And then I thought, well, if I can get through that and still do my job, then how would I get on without all that stress? Structural inequality is real and it exists and women get through despite barriers not because they don’t exist - so you have already achieved a lot in difficult circumstances; the trick is not to get defeated by the size of the barriers (which takes energy and determination, to be true). So the idea of networking in the supermarket queue is intriguing because it is the business equivalent of carving out the time wherever whenever to do your job, and not seeing it as something which is done in one place (an office) at set times (9-6) which is almost impossible with childcare responsibilities (at least I have found this to be the case; I have done a lot of working in parks, during swimming classes and in the early hours or late at night). For me, and I still have work to do on this, it is about banishing the word ‘cannot’ and thinking about how I can do something.

This is doubly hard when you have had someone actually put barriers in your way. So my xH was big on the fact that babies should not be in childcare settings too long - but did he come home and do the additional childcare? He was big on weekends and holidays being family time (which was when I might have made up the work from the additional childcare time). These are barriers to working. Tying someone up in endless mediation and court (when contact does not materially change) is a barrier to that person actually getting on with their lives. So it takes a while to untangle that and i do think you need to be gentle on yourself and recognise that you have come a long way, and you will go a long way; sometimes that will seem easier than others but even on the days when you think you are not achieving much, your brain is still somehow churning over ideas (or getting rest for the next step) and progress is not always linear.

A lot of waffle - but I think one point someone said above is use your judgement and trust your judgement. YOU know the balance of childcare and working which is best for your children; YOU know what are reasonable and realistic goals for your business; everything else from him is what you put in the parcel on the table.

Gosh Katysun and scratchyback fantastic points from you both!
I also think men are bought up to not feel so much guilt. So they feel an obligation/want do their job well and are less bothered if it impacts others including children. I think that it's a good approach in moderation. You need to focus to get things working properly and if the result is you all get to live safely and eat then that's how it goes. Women deserve to be fulfilled and to feel capable and proud of themselves too. If you love your children and keep them safe does it matter if they don't have a home cooked breakfast or whatever?

And love the parcel metaphor. Totally true - they can say what they want but really... so what? Who cares? Is it true? Almost certainly not men like this lie constantly and say things purely to upset you.

I also used to assume everything the ex biz partner said was a lie. And I'd check everything straight away. If he told me this person said x I'd ring them and (subtly) find out. It was always complete bs made up to upset me 🙄🙄 But very valuable clues to what he was thinking/where he was trying to get at me. He basically told me what he was up to. SO stupid!

You are all so cool! Was hoping you would have written as need a wee boost ( don think he means it, but just been told to change !)😁lol vodka, you are clever! Skimming this because lots to do to run forward to my new life (!)
Katysun, thanks for the parcel idea, using it now ( big parcel!) will pop back tonight. Just want to quickly say that I am finding your comments and support totally valuable. ( thanks scratchy and Katy- that’s a really nice thing to say)( if you mean me!)Can actually feel anxiety down ( I hope) and optimism up - and it’s a lot to do with you all. 💐 Have a really nice day, all.

@Treatedlikeamaid

Please feel free to DM me if you've got any questions or want any advice on how to keep motivated!

He's not a patch on you and he knows it.

Onwards!

A good tip I got was to replace the word should with could in my words and thoughts.

I should eat more leafy greens.
I could eat more leafy greens.

I should lose weight
I could lose weight

I should read these 5 industry blogs daily
I could read these 5 industry blogs daily

I should make the children hoover their rooms
I could make the children hoover their rooms

It helps