20 years in it’s dawned on me...

[Treatedlikeamaid]

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

Hi @Treatedlikeamaid
I explained to dh want I thought to get (£20) and he just nodded and warned me we don’t have any money.
Is that REALLY true - or is he being economical with the truth? Does he really have no savings?

Thanks tork. Very Very nice to hear from you, Everyone still in bed, bit gloomy here. A power up sounds good. It made me laugh that you got procrastination as well as running- to get you running? 😀 total respect !
Thanks. Have a really nice day x

I guess my main question would be what financial autonomy do you have? Are you asking permission for every purchase? Or was this in the context of a discussion?

One of the many signs I had that the writing was on the wall was that I suggested we do a joint spreadsheet of all outgoings and incomings. Basically I was paying everything for DC and he was saving his money (although he argued that his costs meant he was not saving anything )
Joint spreadsheet never materialised. Of course I found out when I filed the divorce action that he had been saving exactly what he said he was not saving... I am in Scotland so financial separation is based on assets at separation so he did have to pay me my share (only took five years).

So I would suggest that you need to sit down and do a joint spreadsheet of incomings and outgoings to establish just how much money there is (including any savings) and see how forthcoming he is about this.

I also think even in the context of redundancy, that £20 is fair enough for a child’s birthday present - the child benefit practically covers it, and surely there is room to shave that much at least off your outgoings? It seems a means of control - you are thinking of buying something very reasonable and he is chiding you for profligacy; hence you are questioning every purchase and going for the cheapest possible option. You need to be able to see the family finances and make informed choices yourself, fine to discuss but he does not get the final say.

So yes, how transparent are finances, how much autonomy do you have, and how do you improve both of these things?

Plus, what is the betting he says no to your present and then goes and blows even more money on either his own present for DD or some ‘essential’ item for his business or himself? Been there, had that, bought the T-shirt.

Absolutely now is the time to go through finances in great detail, his redundancy and stress over £20 is a gift handed to you on a plate to insist that you are fully informed and that budgets for food, his proposed business start up are all agreed.

Oh the present thing!

I used to ask my XH every year 'what shall we get the kids for Christmas/birthday?' and his reply every single time was 'just don't spend too much money'. That was it. His entire contribution to Christmas/child's birthday was to tell me not to spend too much.

He never came shopping with me for gifts (we split in 1999, so before internet shopping), he never gave advice or said 'so-and-so might like a xxxx this year'. Nothing. Christmas morning was as much a suprise to him as to the kids.

He just couldn't be bothered to think about it. His Big Important Job was all he could occupy his Big Important Brain with. Everything was down to me.

Smile and ask “anything else I’ve done wrong that you need to point out?” If he says you’re causing a scene say “Ok , thanks, any more?” He might say you’re being difficult. “ I’m difficult, ok. Just keep letting me know where I’m going wrong, I’m happy to learn from your expertise.”
It holds a mirror up to him very clearly without getting into a direct challenge that escalates things.
Alternatively just LTB!

Ha! You are soo lovely. Yes agree 20 enough - often he will spend loads.
Zaphod, that all sounds familiar 😀
Sorry I should stop moaning now.He’s just mentioned we need to do x and y jobs round the house and My anxiety went through the roof. Sorry, I’m exhausted. And very confused. And beyond worried. Xxx

Well no he isn't working he crack on and get those jobs done whilst you focus on your business!

You plural do not need to do x and y jobs, he can if he wants to. This is just him co-opting your time. If the jobs have not been a priority for you plural previously, they certainly do not need to be now.

The use of ‘we’ is a forced teaming tactic - it creates an obligation for both of you, when actually he is deciding. You need to work on your business as Random says and your well-being, not be co-opted into his household efficiency drive.

We need to do x & y jobs? Hmm. I think you need to borrow my mantra "I'll be the judge of that thank you very much"

Thanks ladies! Struggling a bit atm.

That is not surprising

You have a lot to deal with. Be kind to yourself and try to do something which makes you feel better.

Is there anything in particular we can help with?

What kind of struggle? Wound up by him? Can't think about the future? Desperate to escape? Desperate to make him be different? How does struggle manifest?

Thanks guys. I think you’re all being amazing. I’m Just very very anxious about the future, Not sleeping etc. But I guess we all are. Dh now being nice - and supportive of business, a complete about turn. Im reading this thread and books, And I’m sHattered Hugs to everyone xxx

I suspect he's insecure and thinks he needs you so it's time to be nice.

Maybe you can relax a little for now.

I'm not saying trust that he's become a completely different person, but just remember that you don't have to do anything right this second. Breathe, enjoy your day, but do NOT rely on him for anything about your business, don't even mention it to him. Take it right out of the equation for now.

Have a day just trying to forget the stress. Bake yourself a nice cake, enjoy the fact that he's not being a total shithead for once, and give yourself a day off from worrying.

Tomorrow it may all be different again.

Yes, enjoy the peace is basically what I was going to say regarding him being nice. Don’t try to weigh up what it means in the grand scheme of things, just use it as an opportunity to carve out a bit more space for you.

As regards anxiety, it is horrible and I don’t think there is a quick fix. I take Setraline which I have found helpful, but also when things were really bad, did a lot of meditation (I like Tara Brach) and I usually still find things like going for a walk and doing gardening calming. So think about what works for you.

Thanks guys.bit freaked out that this was trending! Am going to take it easy and work out what to do. I hope you’re not right sea eagle...called the docs Katy who said ,’fresh air and excersise’ which is fine. Just hate this feeling. Zaphod, thanks, will do. I’m hoping that now I recognise what’s going on a bit, I’ll be able to change how I behave which will have a knock on effect. Ugh, hate this! Stay safe!

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread just the first and last bits. He's reminding me strongly of my ex business partner who I had to get rid of. He used to set off whirlwinds of shit whenever I started to get ahead, and when I was working would start firing things at me that 'had' to be done but I wouldn't be able to get that thing done as he would then start banging on about something else.

Plus constant undermining etc. So reading your story I just want to say you are not going mad. He is indeed doing shit for no reason. The way you feel is because of him, you actually sound very capable. He is almost certainly deeply insecure and jealous.

You kind of need him out of your life, you know that right? This 'anxiety' is an entirely understandable reaction to pretty much constant stress. It's not you, it's him. There will never be peace with him in your life.

I actually copied what I wrote, then read some more pages then posted it and I see youre being pointed in the direction of narcissists. That was the conclusion I came to re my ex biz partner too.

He has the potential to drag you down quite badly - not just mentally but financially as he will make incredibly stupid decisions based on weird ego stuff (trying to compete with you). He's likely to be lazy and/or try to get you to do all the scut work too and doesn't want you to succeed.

It's in his interests to take you under as your misery and helplessness makes him feel strong and manly. My ex biz partner got married and had children (after he started being a prick) and I thought it would be better cause he was happy - but weirdly he got WORSE. It was like he then felt he had the upper hand!

Personally I didn't find an approach that worked. I tried them all and nothing stopped it. He sabotaged the business before he left - there's nothing they won't do so if you do make a move do it without warning and make sure he has no access to anything that could damage your reputation or your business.

The one thing to always keep in mind is that he doesn't have normal thought processes. How a normal person would act isn't how he will act. It's a massive headfuck. Sounds like there's some good advice here and you seem like a switched on woman.

Remember ITS NOT YOU ITS HIM.

Woh. Thanks cranberry. You have been through the mill. Thanks for the lovely long post. That’s exactly what happened for years. Thanks for bothering to write a clear warning and for saying, it’s not you, it’s him.i appreciate that.and need to remind myself!
I hear you, and I know you’re right. Am picking self up again, and getting better with boundaries. Didn’t appreciate being told to ‘f off’ in front of kids today. When I write it here, it suddenly doesn’t sound So good. Many thanks Xx

You have to engrave that on your mind. The other thing to remember is HES NOT A HUMAN BEING. I know that sounds awful but what it means is that humans tend to behave a certain way, feel guilty, or try their best, or have empathy. These don't.

I remember at one of the worst times in the first few days of a business trip he had been a total prick in front of an important contact on the first night and after a few nights of not much sleep I was trying to get through to him and was in tears. Which I never do. I'll never forget looking at his face - nothing. It was like looking into the eyes of a shark. There was just nothing there. They just do not have the same emotions as you or I. Forget communicating, relying on their decency or honesty, they don't have these emotions. Not human. Everything is just a mask and it's all about ego, power, money, control and how they look to other people.

As I said I tried literally everything and got nowhere. If you have control over them (you're their boss etc) they will often behave. But you have to have serious leverage right from the start. Otherwise best to just cut them out of your life

Oh, I know you’re right. Trouble is, he has the symptoms, but mildly.which made it so hard to realise what was happening. Oh it’s a mess. Thanks for the warning. I do hear you, just not. Sure how to get out. Where would I go for a start. This place needs so much diy before I could sell it. I need an income. Anxiety levels rise!
Saw a counsellor yesterday who offered reduced rates! Apparently lots of them do if you are stuck. Which might be useful for someone here.
Thanks vodka. Thanks very much x
Thanks

@treated just read the whole thread. Firstly, a huge well done for persisting in sorting through things. Second, please be careful, my blood ran cold when he ‘joked’ about beating you. Third, everything does feel overwhelming if you look at it as a whole - I find it much better to break things down. So in the evening, work out what is one thing you can do for your business the next day that will make a positive difference. Do the same about what you could do to the house to help it be saleable. And the next morning get up, and just get on and do them. Don’t discuss with him, don’t ask, just do it.
Finally, you mentioned getting a journal - please be careful, if he finds it that could be a trigger. All the very best, you’re doing amazingly.

Wow, jonty, that was quite a read! thanks so much for saying I’m doing amazingly. Was just trying to get total overwhelm feelings under control. It’s a puzzle. I don’t think he’d hit me, cos he knows that’s a no go.Oh but there’s something in what you said, Vodka..And others, but I’m just seeing it now...it’s an upper hand thing. Very insidious.
I told him not to swear at me in front of the kids, and he told me not to micro manage how he behaves with them. He tells dd,‘don’t do x or y’ all the time. He was trying to get dd to go where he wanted, and it was her plan and her birthday so I was trying to support her to get what she wanted. Then of course, I am micro managing. So he told me to F off with a nasty look that takes me by suprise. I said calmly,‘don’t talk to me like that.’ But am horribly conscious it’s her birthday.
Couldn’t help feeling a bit..grumpy? He lay in the sun. Made no effort to play, and ds sat next to him with his phone. It would just be nice for us all to play somehow.
Zaphod, you were right ! He came in at the last minute and decided to give the little gift for ds to dd. Saying dd hadn’t got many presents, ds didn’t need one, he’s older etc. Ds could hear us whispering, which cannot have been good. but he still wouldn’t back down.
It’s funny, you ladies gave me the strength to realise and say, ( deep breath!) ‘that that wasn’t the point. The point was, I had a plan, and you come in and took control. That’s my plan, I’m doing it, and if you’d like to do something else, that’s up to you’ and I took the little gift and gave it to ds. Soooo glad I didn’t get sucked into the who needs a present more stupid row.
He Used to yell for hours and I think I’m still terrified from that. He does
As to getting stuff done, I panic. Just realised! , in less than a second, I think, I’ll do x, imagine him disapproving, think, ‘I’d better not do x’ do an about turn, get confused and come to a stop.
Got to the point where writing a list makes me feel anxious! Counsellor said, like you, to take very tiny baby steps and they’ll get bigger. Also a very tiny baby step is a step!
The journals in Evernote. 😃
Thanks, you are helping me clear my head. Sorry for musing out loud.