Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

20 years in it’s dawned on me...

994 replies

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/04/2020 11:57

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

OP posts:
Forest1000 · 19/05/2020 11:58

@everythinkbackbutyou Funny you should bring up the terror of buying the "wrong" bread. It's far worse than peas! After nearly 20 years of "training" I still sometimes buy the "wrong" bread, so bread shopping is very stressful. And I avoid cutting bread, because I ALWAYS get that wrong.

I like the idea of a pretend bubble. I created one years ago, knowing I usually get most things "wrong" but, on reflection, I don't think this is a helpful long term strategy, because it allows criticism to become the norm. However, on the other hand, my attempts to challenge criticism haven't worked either. Catch 22.

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 19/05/2020 17:16

The thing is, as you have just succinctly described, there is no effective long term strategy. Anything where your relationship is still there, will wear you down and teach damaging patterns of behaviour to your children.

everythingbackbutyou · 19/05/2020 17:42

Agreed, the bubble is only ever a temporary measure to distance yourself while you are getting out. I will NEVER regret leaving.

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/05/2020 04:24

Hurrah katysun for realising, working it out and giving your kids the strength. It’s the noticing and working it out. It’s all so draining, you are right. Respect.
Thanks everyone, for validating PeaPowerPlay. It’s kind of Reassuring though mad, that it’s so common😀 what’s scary is, you wouldn’t have thought it was abuse - that’s such a massive word.
Ha Pretty, laughing at it is a good idea.! Today’s madness was to ask him to turn the pan down. Oooh! Massive verbal attack. ( why not just say, ok?) So I follow your tips, and don’t reply. He launches 4 or 5 attacks before giving up. I’m shocked..at how he will not stop. At how I’ve not noticed before. At how we both supress it and are talking normally in moments. What do I do?
You are right though, we are in a horrible dynamic where He says I’m being really critical, and I think I’m standing up for myself. Confusing!
Actually Im remembering that a year ago I called a charity, who said, this is abusive behaviour. I managed not to believe them and bury it. I’m very grateful that you are helping me see. Though I can feel myself burying it Even as I read this thread. and hoping itll get better and it’s not that bad.
Oh.

OP posts:
KatySun · 20/05/2020 07:48

I remember once I started modifying my reactions and not replying or replying in a disengaged manner, I also noticed how he would verbally up the ante and add in more things to try and get a reaction. I taught myself to focus on my breathing so as to keep calm and not respond, just observe.

There is another good book by Evan Stark on coercive control (it is called How men entrap women in personal life). He makes a lot of excellent points but the one which came to mind on your point about burying it is this (I might not explain this very well) - he argues that there is a perception in society that women have equality and that relationships and marriages are built on romantic love and partnership, and these are the ideals we are surrounded with, therefore it is very hard for women in abusive relationships to recognise it (because some of the control, jealousy and possessive behaviour can be dressed up as caring and loving, and because we are not brought up to recognise it) but also because then there is the problem of also feeling that your relationship and marriage falls short of this ideal. So you have the problem of how do you begin to articulate what is going on and process this, much less act upon it? Because first you have to understand in your mind that the societal expectations of equality and partnership are not being met in your relationship, far from it, and this is not something you alone can change in a dynamic of abuse (and I would argue you should not try), and you have something quite different on your hands. Second, there are very real practical and financial problems - Stark gives US figures I think for the disparity between men’s earnings and women’s earnings but it is also concern about children, societal expectations of an intact parental home, the way children can be used which mean it is easier to bury it and hold on to hope with the nice bits (but the nice bits are part of the cycle).

But also as I said before, burying is dissociation, it is how your brain copes. You hope it will get better because you want it to be better because the alternative is unthinkable. So the question is how to make the alternative (that your marriage is abusive, that it won’t get better if it has not already done so in 20 years) more thinkable. What do you have and can you do to improve your situation, to work towards getting financial independence for example (no need to post that on here but really have a clear plan in your mind)? What real life support do you have? Those are the questions to be asking.

A postscript about my xH and the recent situation - he then decided that he needed to speak to me about matters (which I was not willing to do as it always brings me down, plus more opportunity to get inside my head) so I said no by text, what did he want to know? He tried to call me three times after I clearly said no, and then we finally had the conversation by text. Ignoring a phone goes against social convention. But then so does calling repeatedly when someone has said no. So even now, I feel like I have to keep re-learning this situation and how to respond without feeling I am in the wrong (I am not!).

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/05/2020 08:16

Woh Katysun,
Thank you for such a long and considered post.
All of it, but especially This - ‘You hope it will get better because you want it to be better because the alternative is unthinkable. So the question is how to make the alternative (that your marriage is abusive, that it won’t get better if it has not already done so in 20 years) more thinkable.’
I have a lot to do.
But It’s better than it was - I’m not so stuck and feeling worthless. I’m learning. I have you guys.
Very well done for working out what works for you, not minding expected behaviour, and sticking to it. Gosh. That’s a lot you’ve got to cope with still.
Thank you very very much for this. Will get the book. Though Finding I’m doing my best not to read the books I’ve bought!
Time to get kids up, again. Love and many many thanks to you all x

OP posts:
KatySun · 20/05/2020 08:39

Evan Stark is great and his work has influenced the recent coercive control legislation, but plenty of time to read him once your life is back on (its own) track 👍

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/05/2020 09:27

Thanks. Bit of a wobble today, massive anxiety and feeling of encroaching doom.

OP posts:
Bluesheep8 · 20/05/2020 09:45

He's making himself feel better by putting you down op.

Zaphodsotherhead · 20/05/2020 10:28

Oh treated, I hope you can get outside in some sunshine to lift your mood. It's so hard, once the veil is lifted and you see what they are doing for what it is. There's a huge shock to the system when you realise that it's truly not 'for your own good' or 'to make you a better mum' as they try to dress it up, it's to make them feel good and to make you feel that you are failing as a mum. So you will always be on the back foot and in need of their presence and reassurance to help you through life.

My mum and dad were equal partners. It came as a HUGE shock to me when I gave up work on the birth of my second child (a very needy baby and now, as an adult, diagnosed ADD and HFA) that I was supposed to surrender myself. Once I stopped earning, that was it, I was no longer a person, just a 'wife and mother'.

But I got out. And so can you.

TorkTorkBam · 20/05/2020 11:00

In my experience that feeling of encroaching doom is right before a huge leap forward.

I think it is the mind throwing up one last Herculean effort to stop you changing your mindset. Your mind does not want to accept the new reality. You have been training your mind for 20 years to block reality from your view. It's trying to protect you. Battle through it.

Something good but different is about to happen.

KatySun · 20/05/2020 12:16

That is a really positive way of looking at it Tork.

In my experience though, the anxiety was because I knew H would not approve or I was going to have to negotiate his moods. I think this was easier for me to see like that because he worked away sometimes and I realised that I was anxious two or three days before he came back, and since we separated, I realised the anxiety was totally related to having to engage with him in one way or another.

I do realise now though that changes at work or any kind of travel triggers anxiety with me too, now that I am aware of it. But I tend to see that more positively in so far as it alerts me to the fact that things need done, and I also know that it is a temporary state - ie once I have dealt with whatever it is, the anxiety will pass. The problem with that is then you feel like you need to deal with it now to get rid of the anxiety, whereas sometimes better decisions are made if you ride out the anxiety and make the decisions when you feel calmer. I don’t know. I tend to see anxiety as there to alert you to something, not as a bad thing.

I hope you are not finding this too overwhelming treated; after all, globally we are in a bit of an unprecedented situation and that is in itself difficult for many people. Be gentle on yourself and take care Flowers

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/05/2020 13:49

Thanks guys. It’s all just freaking me out today. Yes, same zaphod, when I was persueded to stop work with baby. And yes, Katy and tork. I used to feel like you Katy but could deal knowing it was temporary, now everything fills me with ridiculous anxiety. I hope you’re right that something is changing for the better. Just staring at the computer feeling useless and overwhelmed. Not pleasant! Going for a walk in the sun, good idea.
I’m so glad you are here!

OP posts:
Forest1000 · 20/05/2020 15:46

Sorry to hear that you are struggling today Treated. Like others have said, it's a horrible realisation when the mask is lifted, and the question of what to do to change the situation is so tough, especially when there are children involved.

Thank you to everyone for their amazing insight. It is so helpful.

Zaphod - my parents are pretty equal partners too, especially considering that my Dad was the main breadwinner and my mum isn't really that confident. So for me too it's a huge shock to finally realise that I fulfil the servant role in a master-servant dynamic. My situation is a bit different to most I imagine, because I continued to work after having kids, and have a pretty demanding job and the cleaning/cooking/housework/childcare doesn't all fall to me....if anything, he does more and in many ways I also get a lot of support. It's just that in many interactions I'm the underling, and this gets very very tiring.

TorkTorkBam · 20/05/2020 15:56

Finding I’m doing my best not to read the books I’ve bought!
This is your mind resisting the change! You know what you read will drive you to make major changes in your life. You know what you read will make you unable to pretend eveything is fine really.

Sometimes realising this can make it possible to force yourself to pick up the book and read.

That said, I have found I need to start "reading" some books using Audible on headphones while gardening or cooking. It makes it tolerable to start. It also means I can read without anyone else questioning what I am reading, for how long, etc.

KatySun · 20/05/2020 18:52

I hope the fresh air helped treated - I certainly don’t want to contribute to you feeling overwhelmed with it all.

Maybe a sticking plaster for the moment so you can focus, but have you tried any CBT apps? I had CBT the year after we separated because I was having panic attacks and anxiety, and after that, I used one which was quite helpful in identifying the thoughts causing the anxiety and working through them to reframe them. Some people don’t really rate CBT but for paralysing anxiety, I found it helpful. That, and one of those planner apps where you put in which tasks you were going to do when, and then you got to check them off. I think I need that one right now, to be honest.

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/05/2020 22:02

Oh you are all so lovely. Forest, I’m with you about the insight. Just a shame everyone’s been through crap. it sounds as if, in theory, you have a lot of conventional boxes ticked as katysun said. I’m guessing thats why it’s been hard to spot why you feel like an underling and then that makes you doubt yourself without understanding why? We’re learning! It’s still pants.
Tork, audible is a genius idea! And Katy, I will try a Cbt app.

OP posts:
Treatedlikeamaid · 20/05/2020 22:16

And a planning app.minds all over the place. Now it’ll be all over 18 different planning apps too😀
Thiis was recommended on another thread.
‘surviving narcissism’ on you tube. In case link doesn’t work. I find this chap very soothing and he seems to talk sense. Maybe he’ll be helpful to someone here. And getting outside was a jolly good idea🌳🐿🌳and yes, You’re all right, All v hard to get head round
Smile and wave!
Can’t tell you how much I appreciate you all. 💐 - lots of emojis to cheer us up x

OP posts:
Treatedlikeamaid · 21/05/2020 09:08

Husbands been made redundant. No insurance. Can’t cope

OP posts:
RandomMess · 21/05/2020 09:19

Hugs Thanks

Time to focus on your business and looking for work.

Do your best to block him out, divide chores and childcare and insist that you both have equal time to job hunt.

Make him research applying for benefits? is this an opportunity for you to find out all about your finances?

TorkTorkBam · 21/05/2020 09:47

Does he get a pay out?

TorkTorkBam · 21/05/2020 09:49

Circumstance is now forcing change. Might as well get it to work in your favour.

What's your thinking on what to do next?

R3ALLY · 21/05/2020 09:50

And if he is anything like mine, he will put that stress on you and make you bear the brunt of it. Be aware this is part of the pattern. Stay strong x

Treatedlikeamaid · 21/05/2020 12:00

Thanks guys. Just standard pay out. Thankfully he Had started chatting to some colleagues about setting up on their own, so I’m hoping that’s on the cards.
Tork, I will get my head down and get this wee business up and running, though everything seems totally overwhelming and pointless atm!
Really, thanks. I will. I’m aware this is a daft question, but how do people stay strong? I’m guessing sleep, excersise etc? All tips welcome!
Hope you are all ok. X

OP posts:
Catmaiden · 21/05/2020 12:26

Stop calling it a "wee" business. That immediately diminishes it's worth, in your mind.

Swipe left for the next trending thread