Dating Thread 188 - Living and Loving in the Lockdown

[JeSuisPrest]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item.

You can’t force someone to take your help onesmall, and why would you want to? I suggest fighting the urge to be a redeemer and just stepping right back from Mr Van. Then think about why you have this urge. I used to do the same, but I just don’t any more. It’s pointless. You look after you.

And to clarify my wobble at the moment is that in the background of every relationship I have had for the last 6 years has been Mr Cocky. FWB. But in truth I fell for him early doors ( I was fairly newly widowed and an emotional mess, naive and craving love ) I have been juggling my feelings for him ever since. He was married, went through an acrimonious divorce ( not involving me ) and now is too scared to commit to anyone else because his adult kids still blame him for hurting their mom. We message all day every day but only see each other sporadically. If I get too needy he reminds me he never promised me a relationship. If I back off and date others he gets grumpy. I know the answer but he's also been the kindest man at times, offered lots of support when I have felt rubbish. And the sex when it happens is off the scale. Every 6 months or so we have a flare up and say it's probably best to end things but never lasts. Today is heading towards being one of those days

Onesmallstep I can relate to what MrVan is doing as I also retreat into my own little bubble when there are issues to deal with or periods of high stress, and know it can be tough on those closest to me when I do. Doesn't mean I care any less about them, but do recognise now that it probably appears that way and is pretty selfish.

But most importantly, if that is what he's doing then he probably always will, is that a trait you want in your partner?

This is bad for your own mental health though. Don’t do this to yourself you do deserve better. Not that these are awful people but it’s making you feel like this. I have wasted SO much of my life on these types of people who take from you, drain you and are emotionally unavailable.
Ask yourself really honestly what you want. And who you want. And why. You aren’t wrong for wanting a real relationship with feelings involved there is nothing wrong with that. Just that the objects of your affection are not able to give it to you.

I don’t think people who retreat have a clue how it can make other people feel. I know why people do it and I understand but it runs the risk of breaking trust and intimacy, it can make the other person feel worthless and confused.

Also the worst thing to do is try chase someone trying to fix them. They want space and it’s hard to remember that

@TigerDater, I think it's about making myself feel needed. I am a people pleaser, not great at putting my needs at the forefront of what I do. I should concentrate more on myself and for the most part I have got better. But I guess for me part of making myself feel happy is meeting my physical and emotional needs. So a relationship is important. I am overdue a period of emotional stability with someone.
@Ant330, very true. This is clearly a trait of his and we are not in a relationship so difficult for me to address it with him. I am trying to make him fit in the relationship shaped hole in my life but I think I know deep down he's not going to

@Onesmallstep67

I sympathize with you as none of the 3 seem to be meeting your needs. I think you may need to step back from all of them.

I keep repeating this to myself -If it's not fun- stop.

last night I overheard my 18 year old's words of wisdom for her friend who is serially heartbroken -

like those who like you and even then just match their energy- no more no less.

Thank you @Menora, you have summed that up so clearly. I think like most of us I can see objectively what is happening, I don't want it to be that way and I am ever hopeful of finding someone who doesn't drain me but actually gives me support and commitment. I suppose we go through cycles, looking for the right person, finding someone not quite right but seeing if we can make it work then moving on again. I need someone to break the cycle for me.

I feel for you as you clearly are a very open and generous person. I worry that these 2 men are just taking advantage of some of your vulnerabilities for their own gain and benefit and at your detriment. It can be really scary to let something familiar go. Have you tried counselling at all. Do you have much family or friends support

@Onesmallstep67 sending hugs as I am like that too, and Mr Beard is quite the sort to retreat a bit when he finds things emotionally difficult, whereas I am the opposite. We message every day still and talk a few times a week but I actually find him more reserved than me ... we keep it fairly light unless he is telling me his issues. I keep mine to myself as my ex made me feel nobody would ever care about me enough to put up with my emotional or practical problems and to be fair that seems to be the truth, but I am very bad at living in own head, even for short periods. I feel like someone designed for public rather than private life. Hence need a constant stream of chatter and links to the outside world.

I also have quite a few plates spinning iron wise due to insecurity/hedging my bets, but I'm not fooling myself any more.

Recently since being furloughed he has been on WhatsApp at 3.00/4.00am, and I'm thinking he must be sexting other people as who the fuck else is up at that time? He stopped sexting me after we had slept together then gone on lockdown... he does flirt but no overt filth any more. I just assumed it was cos it would be too frustrating now we can't see each other but who the fuck is on WhatsApp at 4am? Even though he has said he is only involved with me right now. It is suspicious, isn't it? I can't talk to him about feelings or expectations as too early days, but I am not sure I ever will be able to... with anyone.

I would definitely benefit from counselling! If only to pay someone to listen to my shit 😂

@Menora I know that letting go is the answer. I have had a rough few years, my DH passed away from cancer and my parents died quickly one after the other a couple of years ago. My only sister lives abroad and my social circle isn't great. I don't work ( financially stable so partly by chance/circumstance ) but that in itself limits another source of social interaction. Despite looking like a sad sack on paper lol I am actually quite an upbeat person. But I do need to fill out my life and stop using men or dating to plug the gaps left by other things that have gone.

@UtterSocks
The almost same thing was the absolute death knell of Mr M and I. I just could not stand it as I found it so disrespectful. He had asked me to be in a proper exclusive RS with him and then was all offended when I questioned his behaviour trust worthy ness and constant retreating. So you aren’t going mad. But there were a million other things he did added to that stuff which just caused a huge loss of trust and anger. I walked away quite some time ago and he tried to keep me around but very half heartedly and then became mean and horrible taking out all his anger and frustration of his life out on me and blaming me for getting on his nerves too much. I thought I would miss him but in all honesty I actually don’t miss such a miserable draining lump of drift wood

Your iron probably just can’t sleep and is talking to friends online. If there is no other reason to worry then try not to. I was sleepless for many nights a couple weeks ago and a friend who lives overseas was only one awake!

@Menora the only thing I have to worry about that isn't me projecting is that our communications style is not a good match as in I am way more chatty and open. But that is an issue generally I never shut up 😂

Also I am secretly someone who needs a lot of reassurance and contact, especially now on lockdown when my 100mph busy life and therefore distraction has been taken away from me, but I am also proud and defensive so never admit to it openly so unless he is a fucking psychic he will have no idea he is doing anything wrong.

Weirdly when I don't care either way I can be honest and open. Had a great chat with Mr Media about why we friendzoned each other for example and am now happy to be great mates with him, but when I asked the question it was because I was not invested either way in the answer, just curious...

@Onesmallstep67 I didn't know you were widowed. So sorry, it must have been difficult x I also lost my parents young, and quickly, and it knocked me for six too. Sending hugs x

UtterSocks
But what you are saying and feeling is that you feel like you are an open and honest person, but can’t be with him yet because it’s too early on. He is naturally more introverted - which could equal secretive or withholding. And you can’t trust him at this point, as it’s very early. That’s normal it’s not projecting anything. It doesn’t mean he is up to anything terrible but you are being aware that there needs to be an element of self protection. All these women on this thread beating themselves up over having feelings or wanting to know where they stand doesn’t make us all clingy needy and awful it’s ok to acknowledge it! We are human after all not cold hearted robots.
The part after that is what you do about it. How you manage and act on the feelings that’s important - not the fact you have the feelings. You are not defective

Thanks @Menora xxx I feel defective because the outer me and the inner me don't match up ... I am a people pleaser so ... quite inauthentic. I think if I admitted to having feelings for someone they would run a mile. This is partly due to a long and loveless marriage. I find feelings, when they hunt me down and bludgeon me over the head like this, are very uncomfortable... I prefer not to have them!

And Mr Beard is not introverted at all, just more rational and less emotional than me I think. About me, anyway 🙄 I have a constant desire to just delete and block him and walk away from this, and a total inability to do so.

No one is defective, sometimes like you say it’s down to the choices you make and a match of communication styles that can make things a lot harder. I’m such a people pleaser too (are we sisters haha) but I have learnt how to feel all of the feelings however crap they might be and try to work them out for myself and what they might mean. I’m not afraid of my own feelings but it’s normal to be afraid of showing them to someone else. Given time with the right person you trust you won’t feel so afraid

Sometimes people who appear more ‘rational’ don’t actually have all of their shit together either but they may be better at hiding/suppressing/ignoring feelings than other people it doesn’t make them better or stronger. It takes strength to look at your feelings and acknowledge them and even talk about them. If you try run away from them they are still there 😂 so maybe all of us having wobbles need to practice some self love and self care this week and be kind to ourselves. Maybe let go of some of the fears you have in your own mind and look for the good things you have in your life?

@Onesmallstep67

You also need to take care of yourself!
Come here and talk and share if you want to. You have been through a lot

@Onesmallstep67. Wise words from my 15 year old (talking about her dad, but relevant to any situation).

Why waste your time trying to help someone who doesn’t want that help? Everyone makes choices in how they behave, you can’t stop that or save him. Don’t give more than you feel you’re comfortable with, be prepared you won’t get the same back, because ultimately you can’t change him, only he can do that. Sometimes you have to walk away in order to save yourself.
It’s to do with her dad abandoning us and not making any effort to see her, but still relevant in other situations. She’s much wiser than me, but she’s had to grow up far too fast in the last year.

@mylifestartstoday Wise words indeed! My daughter is wiser than me too. Awful to admit! Luckily my son is a similar sort of idiot to me...

Thank you everyone for lots of positive advice and supportive reassurance that what I am feeling is understandable.
In terms of Mr Van there has been no word all day. He did tell me when he originally retreated in January that when things are mithering him he goes that way. So I will definitely give him some space and see what happens.
Mr Cocky pushed me to find out what was troubling me so we spoke during his lunchtime ( still working ) and I was as honest as I could be about my feelings. I said that he couldn't expect me to be in contact as we are and for the time that we have been without having some deep feelings. And that he couldn't expect me to give him all the best bits but be kept at arm's length. He said that we couldn't actually move things on at the moment but that when we are able to be back in physical contact we should see how we go on. we had been planning some proper dates when lockdown kicked in.
I nipped out to get some shopping and being in the car, music on loud and a bit of contact with the 'real world' actually helped too.

This is why counselling is so good, because the counsellor is paid to listen to you droning on about your feelings, so you can finally learn to acknowledge and deal with them. I never could impose myself on anyone like that unpaid, it felt wrong and selfish, and too much like what other people did to me. But once I was paying her, I didn’t stop. First time anyone has listened to me properly in my life! It helped so much. I more or less stopped being a people pleaser and started being a me pleaser overnight.

@Onesmallstep67

I really think you need to set yourself a date in time where if nothing has changed, you stop asking him to move things on with you and walk away.
I mean after lockdown if you want to give it a try with him, you cannot keep giving him infinite opportunities over and over to be ‘ready’ because it is easy for him to keep alluding to things changing and very different actually making a commitment. So it is good you stood up to him on your terms - I’m really proud of you

Can’t recommend counselling enough I have 2 different ones on the go as well now 😂
All over the phone at the moment
I need some specialist counselling that I cannot get from mainstream and it is really helping me take some of my own power and control back over my life. I’m in charge of it and I can’t just keep letting other people drive my car

@TigerDater and @Menora I think counselling would be a good move for me. I had a small amount in the lead up to my DH's death and for a short while afterwards. It was very much focused around his death and my feelings. I am a long way on from that but I can see that issues I had even asserting my needs with him still exist.
Menora I have told him pretty much the same things several times previously but this is the first time he's actually said we might be able to really test the waters. I do know what I want and deserve though and won't be settling. Just need to make sure I am not cut off to other opportunities in the meantime.
Mr Van has messaged to say he'd like to chat at 10pm ....

Apply the same to Mr Van, I think you know your mind you just naturally have a fear of things changing, even though these situations are making you unhappy they are easier to plod along rather than change anything.
Counselling for you would be a great start. My counselling is positive and trying to make sense of myself. I completed a boundaries form and shocked myself by how much of a people pleaser I am and that I never put myself first (or anywhere) in relationships because I am so keen on making things work and being what I think the other person needs I become blind to my own needs