Dating Thread 188 - Living and Loving in the Lockdown

[JeSuisPrest]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item.

I've posted this about ghosting before. I think it explains it very well

"Ghosting creates ambiguity - you don't know what happened - Did I do something wrong? Did something bad happen? Since you're clueless about the motives of such behavior, you don't know how to react - Should I call? Should I wait? Ghosting not only disrupts a social interaction (you - them) but undermines all the others - If that person doesn't want to interact with me, why others would want to?
Ghosting is psychologically damaging AND physically damaging - one of the brain's functions is to monitor the environment to understand social cues and produce a sound social response; when ghosted, our social cues pertaining that relationship are removed, producing an instability in the social perception. This dysregulation quickly extends to the point of making you question yourself as a whole, putting you and your perceptions in doubt - Why didn't I see it coming? Why did I think it was different? Why did I get it wrong? I don’t understand people!
You are not even going to question if ghosting was your fault or not, because you ASSUME it was and with the lack of explanations, all you have available are those assumptions - thoughts that you accept as true without external validation. This lack of validation coupled with the other party’s indifference, undermine your self-esteem and your self-worth. - If I was worthy, they wouldn't let me go! While a person with a high self-esteem can manage to shrug off the offense fairly easily (albeit still getting wounded), a person with a low self-esteem experiences ghosting as another "proof" of their unworthiness. Without the possibility of confrontation, assumptions become quickly (and erroneously) proofs - they originate from yourself, pondered with yourself and validated just by yourself. Needless to say, certain instances of ghosting are considered a form of emotional abuse.
TL;DR. Ghosting hurts because it silences you, leaves you powerless and wondering, leaves you alone with your assumptions, without the possibility of confrontation and expression, leading to an erroneous self-validation which ultimately undermines your self-esteem. People ghost because of indifference, either toward their own feelings (rare) or toward you.

Because it’s a total lack of respect for you as a person. There’s no closure and people need that. Ghosting basically says, “You’re not worth my time to explain, you don’t matter.” It’s a way of completely devaluing someone and it’s very hurtful.
What ghosting should tell someone instead is that “This person is a coward who takes the easy way out and isn’t good relationship material anyway.”

I have only just found this thread whilst looking around at what else to read....
I am struggling with maintaining a newish relationship online.

However, finding this interesting to read. Whe I first dabbled in online dating about 3 years ago I had NEVER done the online thing before having been married forever and then separated.

I was ghosted 3 times by the same man! I had never even heard of the word before! The first time we chatted, flirted but never met up, he was dating different women, whereas I was only online chatting - so only friends... he suddenly stopped answering.

Appeared months later - said mental health issues and ok so off chatting again whilst he was dating again... then disappeared again.... this time I kept messaging because was really worried about him ..... no need, he had met someone and all going well so we both just messaged as friends occasionally,,, then months later it all went a bit weird! when back in touch again.... very odd running down his partner, asking my opinion of her/things etc/heavy flirting....odd

The previous post above me..

Spot on.

I'd never experienced ghosting... was completely new to OLD then when ghosting assumed I'd done somthing wrong...

The man was a complete coward though... I let him do it to me 3 times... started as a friendship online...progressed... eventually I thought he liked me - it turns everything upside down...

He basically was saving how he 'settled' for his current partner because he didn't want to be alone... thought he was 'selling himself short' by being with her... she loved him...

He was a completely horrible man and I see that now, his poor partner, he thought he was too good for her, but wouldn't leave her since he hadn't found anyone better and didn't want to be alone. Was an asshole.

I actually met him twice as a friend and very briefly and he suggested I jump him....! He had a partner... realised what an idiot he was and not a catch at all. It's strange how when we are not in a good place emotionally we put up with rubbish.

Anyway, individuals who ghost are cowards... basically just be honest and say you don't want to stay int ouch/met someone/not feeling it etc but disappearing is an act of cowardice. Some try to dress it up as saving someones feelings by not saying they are not into you...etc etc... that's all rubbish though... they are cowards

Great posts about ghosting there, thank you!

Weallhavevalidopinions I dated someone last year who sounds very like your ghoster.

We started dating, then he wanted to be friends, then a relationship, then friends, then a relationship.
When I found out he was still very active on dating sites he tried to ghost me. So I sent him that article.

He replied - that's a bit deep, but I don't think it applies to me. Completely missing the point that his actions showed he was indifferent to my feelings and had no respect for me.

I've since found out he has a habit of chatting to women online when he's bored and doesn't believe he's doing anything wrong because it's not really cheating.

@JeSuisPrest I've just seen on another thread that you have split up with Mr C? What happened? Are you ok? x

Yes @Sunshineandflipflops it's properly over now. We got back together and it was just dying on its arse tbh. I couldn't move passed the whole "I love you but I'm not in love with you thing" so we pulled the plug. I think he was as upset as I was but we both agreed it was for the best. He actually got a bit nasty and hurtful at the end but he was just lashing out because he couldn't deal with his own emotions. That's his issue, not mine.

I won't lie, it's been tough - we were together for a year, but I feel like I'm coming out the other side now. I wish nothing but good things for him. I hope he finds what he is looking for but it's not going to be with me. I genuinely meant everything I wrote on the other thread. Ending things with him has freed me to find what I'm looking for (and deserve!) with someone else. I haven't lost my faith in love, we just weren't the right for for each other.

I've had some brilliant support in RL and online - you know who you are x

And for those who remember back that far in the saga - he confirmed that Beach Lady has always hated my guts - I knew it! 👊🏻😂

@JeSuisPrest I’m really sorry to hear that, I hadn’t seen the other thread. You seemed so suited for a while but that business with the L word was such an elephant in the room. I hope you continue to get yourself back together 💐

@JeSuisPrest sorry! But you sound really upbeat - so that’s good

Beach lady was a twat - and a poorly mannered one at that. Didn’t she come abc stay for 6 hours on your romantic weekend with him ? And no I wasn’t on Mumsnet then hut I’ve spent most of lockdown reading through back threads

Ah, I’m sorry @JeSuisPrest. You seem to have come out the relationship quite wise though. It sounds like he might struggle to find what he’s looking for if he didn’t know after a year.
I’m glad you have support as it can’t be easy to take your mind off things at the moment!
Had you and your dc moved in with him during lockdown?

Oh wow. So sorry to hear that @jesuisprest i always thought of you and Mr C as one of the success stories of this thread. However, you have always given good and insightful advice. And I could never have dealt with the won't say I love you thing. It sounds like you are doing really well. I hope you are being kind to yourself.

Oh jesuisprest that's sad
I thought you and Mr C sounded so good together. But you can't force things if he wasn't giving you what you wanted.
I hope you find the right person who can tell you that they love you.

Thanks all

We could have gone on for years as we were, but I would always have felt a bit cheated and not quite 100% about it. I need that "night, night, love you" kiss before we go to sleep and I never got it once. Its really not too much to ask after a year. If he finds a time machine he might be able to recreate what he had with his unrequited love from many moons ago, or if he gets counselling he may be able to try and come to terms with losing his mum, if he stops drinking as much as he does try and drown out what's going on with his emotions he might find someone.

I too think he'll be searching for a long time, 'cos you know, I'm an awesome, funny, attractive, solvent, kind, caring, smokin' in the sack woman, and if he can't make it work with me well, it's not me, it's him...🤷🏻‍♀️

Ok, so I have a question after reading @jesuisprest posts. How do you know if you're in love. I've been avoiding the issue. My BF has used the word, without exactly saying that he loves me. But I can't tell if I do. I feel like I'm too pragmatic. And probably too recently out of a mildly abusive marriage (20 year relationship, 10 married). I split up 15 months ago and have been dating bf for 9 months.

I really enjoy his company, fancy him, miss him like crazy because of lock down, have loads in common. But neither of us has introduced friends. I've not thought about introducing him to my DC. He doesn't have any.

If there's something holding me back, it's probably the kids/no kids thing. When I'm stressed about the DC, he doesn't get it in the same way as a parent would.

How would I know if I was falling in love rather than just having longish term, exclusive fun?

I too think he'll be searching for a long time, 'cos you know, I'm an awesome, funny, attractive, solvent, kind, caring, smokin' in the sack woman, and if he can't make it work with me well, it's not me, it's him...🤷🏻‍♀️

YES @JeSuisPrest! 👏🏻🙌🏼👌🏼

Apologies if that sounds dense. I'm also autistic, and probably have some degree of alexthimia and also anhedonia.

@JeSuisPrest I’m pleased you’re okay, from what you have said it does seem like the best option foe you.

@JaggySplinter I don’t think it makes you sound dense, a lot of people will feel the same. I struggle to tell the difference between love and lust, is there one? Not introducing children after 9 months I completely understand, but if it’s a relationship rather than FWB not introducing friends by this stage is a little unusual.

Are on like 82nd May? I started back at work this week (but all at home), MrNN has got a voluntary job which he’s enjoying. He also had a big argument with his parents two weeks ago, they have blocked his number, so that’s awkward. Apart from that elephant in the room we’re all okay, bit bored at times, but that’s not a hardship.

@jesuisprest yes it's totally him. My bf says that to me every night. It's lovely.

Sorry to hear this @JeSuisPrest
I am glad you are feeling positive though?

Re being in love
I think it’s if you imagine your life without that person and know you would be really sad. And also that you want to experience so many things with them, they make you feel good about yourself, you both want the best for each other iyswim? I know I love my friends for all those reasons, but with a partner I would love them the same reasons but also want to have sex with them 😂

@JeSuisPrest I'm glad you are so positive about this. You rock, and if he couldn't give you what you needed, we'll you need to find someone who can.

@jaggySplinter I have no idea what love is. I don't know of I'm there yet, it feels so early for me and I spent so long in a "me against the world" phase when I was homeless after leaving exh, I'm struggling to drop my guard and feel anything.

@jesuisprest sorry to hear that but your right, if it's not 100%

@jaggysplinter it doesnt sound dense. I think it's hard when your coming out of a long relationship to know. I'm hoping love will jump up and slap me in the face haha. I dont really have a clue tho.

am I being silly? iron called me today to say he was advised to go hospital by nhs24 (not covid related) I messaged once or twice to see how he was getting on and he said he'd phone later. heard nothing since 5.45. sent message if everything was ok about 8 but unread so sent another few hours later asking if he could call when he got the message. now been read and no call. I've tried calling but think phone is switched off now. am I being silly but what's the point in telling someone ur going to hosp to then ignore them when they ask if ur ok?

@JaggySplinter omg yes. Absolutely how I feel.
I think when you come out of a long marriage or relationship it does change things. I felt like I must been living a lie - were all those I Love You’s real at all. I believed my marriage would last for ever so when it didn’t it did make me question everything.
I have never said the L word to Mr Tri, nor he to me.
I used to think he held back so as not to pressure me or frighten me away as I was the cautious one at the start. Now, I’m not sure. I think we have a great relationship and I think we do both love each other but I’m too scared to even define it. It doesn’t bother me at all that he doesn’t say it, and I’m not sure if we ever will. I guess I don’t want to say it again without it being a lasting love if that makes sense. And how would we ever know anyway? I’m happy living in the here and now and enjoying what we do have, whatever it is!

@JeSuisPrest sorry to hear your news but like others have said you've clearly made the right decision for you and sound in a positive place knowing what you deserve and want. Good on you for sticking to that and not settling 👏

@JeSuisPrest im also sorry about how things turned out. I think it's brilliant you have come out on the other side and are sticking to what you deserve. You'll get it for sure.

@JaggySplinter
I've been thinking the same for a long time and even posted a few threads ago about love.

I too left an emotionally abusive marriage, I'm 2 years down the line and divorced but I closed my heart to everything.
I even stopped myself crying all the time because it hurt so much - I have at least allowed that although I've cried more in 2 years than I did in 17!!!

I don't know that I can leave myself vulnerable again by opening my heart to someone and risking it being broken again.

@Savoretti
I feel the same, saying it in a marriage when that marriage didnt last or was crap has meant it has lost its meaning for me.
I tried to never say it after my ex husband emotionally cheated time and time again but occasionally I was forced into it.
However he said it all the time, unfortunately he loved having his ego stroked more so if anyone tells me they love me ever again I probably wont believe them.

I also have issues around the word Sorry, my ex said it so many times and still carried on doing his thing with other women so its meaningless to me.
Actions speak louder than words is my new motto.