Domestic abuse from teenage daughter

[Papergirl1968]

I don’t know if this is the best place to post.
My daughters, 18 and 15, are adopted. Both have lots of issues and the oldest in particular has always been very angry.
She binge drinks and is a very unpleasant drunk, with verbal abuse, foul language, physical aggression and smashing up the house.
In the last few weeks she’s kicked and punched me, and then on Saturday she threw a heavy book hard at me, the corner of which caught me just above my eye. I was ok apart from a red, sore mark but I could have been blinded.
She was screaming abuse at me and bits of saliva were coming out of her mouth - she was literally spitting with rage. She kicked the front door repeatedly and threatened to kill me so I rang 999.
One of the police who came asked how likely I thought it on a scale of 1-10 that she’d seriously hurt me one day and I said seven or eight. She is small and I’m quite a big woman but I’m not getting any younger - early 50s - and she just doesn’t hold back at all, but loses all control. I am pretty sure that if there happened to be a kitchen knife lying around when she was in one of these rages she wouldn’t hesitate to use it. One of our cats is terrified of her and hides away from her.
I’m usually the target of her anger and it’s usually when she’s drunk but she also kicked off in a shop the other day because they refused to sell her an energy drink, and she came home one night boasting about how she’d beaten up a girl on a bus, and she wasn’t drunk on those occasions. I don’t think she’s into drugs, because she saw what drugs did to her birth mother.
Anyway, in the past she’s been charged several times with assaulting me but this time the police didn’t seem to want to arrest her - understandable given how busy they are at the moment - and took her to a friend’s. She’s now been found somewhere to live a few miles away by the council homeless team.
That’s the background and finally I’ve got to the bit I need advice on. The police put me in touch with a domestic abuse organisation who can help me get an injunction to prevent her harassing me, coming to the house etc. But I would like, in future when things have calmed down, to be able to meet her somewhere public for a coffee or a meal. The woman I spoke to said that was an unusual request as it was usual for there to be no contact between the parties (who are of course usually partners and not mother and daughter) and I’d have to ask the judge.
I’m now wondering if I’m doing the right thing. It’s a huge deal to cut your 18-year-old daughter out of your life. Perhaps it would be better if I warned her that I won’t get the injunction this time, but that I want her to stay away from our home and if she won’t, I’ll then have no choice.
She’s not a monster - the other day she cut my lawn and my elderly mom’s lawn without being asked. She’s had some awful experiences and gone through a lot. But I can’t keep on being her punchbag.
And she won’t get help for her anger or binge drinking. She went to Camhs when she was younger and saw a counsellor last year but won’t really engage.

I wouldn’t get an injunction no .
I have similar issues from my 18 year old son sometimes so I understand how torn you are .
For now - I would want to leave the door open for rebuilding your relationship - it will change now you aren’t living together .

I hope so, Fidgety. She’s left home several times since she was 16 but after a few months has come back.

It is a big deal but you're doing the right thing. There's hardly a mention of the younger sibling here. It's important to set a good example for her. Your eldest daughter is used to thinking she can beat you can still come home to acceptance or tolerance and that needs to stop. Just like abusive husbands, you need to be prepared for the possibility that she'll promise she'll change, or come home claiming that she has when she hasn't. I can'f tell you if an injunction is the right thing to do but you do need to take care of your physical safety. The biggest thing she'll have to learn is that her life, because of the foul way she treats others, can quickly spiral down the drain. Sometimes nurture only does so much. It's scary to think, but some personality traits are genetically inherited and working against that is very difficult.

Oh my, you poor thing. A lady I know who adopted two unrelated children in the 80's became their personal punchbag.

You deserve better. She's old enough. I would take a step back and tell her you can meet, as you said, in a cafe for tea. I don't think I'd want her back in my home for the foreseeable.

It is not ok to hit you, whatever her anger issues. Don't give her the opportunity.

Wishing you the best, hugs, strength and compassion to help you do what needs to be done

Sounds like she needs more counselling, a lot more. With a counsellor she can engage with - which could take many tries.

Has she ever spoken to you about her upbringing - is there abuse?

Unfortunately it seems like the right thing for her to live separately. And you're Def doing the right thing trying to keep avenues of communication open. All you can do is is make it clear that you're not going to take aggression or violence from hee but you are still always there to talk to if she wants.

Sorry you've said they've both got lots of issues, do I assume she has spoken to you or you were told.

I'm not sure what to do if she won't engage with a counsellor other than keep trying different counsellors etc. Maybe someone experienced in this can post.

You need to be a role model to the youngest now. You cannot be a punchbag. The consequence are an injunction. This is very important. You need boundaries. She need to learn from this as do you.

Please involve social services and the police to get counselling for yourselves.

I can’t imagine how awful this has been for you. Can I ask what your 15 year old thinks of her sister? Is she scared too? Just thinking to protect your other child

Sounds like 18 year old needs professional help and support. What a horrible situation

Thank you all. Much appreciated.
Yes, they both had a very traumatic life before they came to me with abuse and neglect from birth family. Dd1 won’t really talk about it. I think she finds it too painful. She also had a baby last year who was taken into care at one day old. Baby is still in foster care and looks likely to be adopted. It broke my heart to do it, but I have told children’s services what dd1 can be like and that in my view the baby shouldn’t be returned to her.
I didn’t say much about dd2 because I voluntarily put her into care in the autumn due to her behaviour - constant running away, getting drunk, self harm etc. She was out of control at home and at school - she was excluded from two schools. The bottom line was I couldn’t keep her safe. She’s actually home with me for a few days at the moment though due to a situation at the children’s home she’s in. She’s refusing to return so not sure what will happen. She has been aggressive in the past towards me and other people but nowhere near on the scale of dd1, and I think she’s matured during her time in care. Her relationship with her sister swings between being thick as thieves and at each other’s throats.

If you told her not to come to your home would she take notice of that? Could you just not let her in? Considering your DDs trauma and likely attachment issues I think you should avoid an injunction if at all possible; the message she needs it that you love her and will always be there for her but you won’t accept this behaviour.
The trauma she has experienced is huge and in considering her future chances it’s important that she has that unconditional love from you even if she cannot accept it or have a positive relationship with you for years.
If for your own safety you need an injunction then it can always be lifted by you returning to court if necessary

Just in case it is not in place and as it is often ‘forgotten’ adopted children are allowed to have social work support until 25. Time to get her some outside help and look at the third sector too, there can be surprising organisations around who offer stuff. Very sad that the nurture can’t modify everything. But support her now by supporting her to get help. But maintain your boundaries.

There is a charity that provides help and advice specifically for violence committed by children against parents called Holes in the Wall.

Their resources section is here :
holesinthewall.co.uk/resources/leaflets-and-information-for-parents/

An injunction will mean the end of contact but is that really what you want?
Dont threaten her with the injunction that will be thrown back at you. tell her you love her, you miss her and you want to be there for her. Take very careful gradual steps.

I cant see anything else would 'help' her, shes angry and probably desperately unhappy.

I think what I’ve decided to do is tell her she must stay away from our home, and that if she doesn’t I will have no choice but to get an injunction. I can forward her the uncompleted paperwork so she knows I’m serious. I do love her - and I’m desperately worried about her. But I can’t honestly say I like her very much.
Unfortunately her SW stopped working with her when she turned 18. Which was a real pity as she definitely needed that extra support. She finds it difficult to accept support and advice.
I will definitely look at the Hole in the Wall website. So much of what’s on the usual domestic abuse websites is aimed at couples.
Thank you all.

Wow it breaks my heart when I hear stories like this. You adopted 2 little girls and I’m assuming that they got all the love and support in the world yet they treat you like this?

It shows how important early development is for children and how they can be damaged even though their have had a very good chance in life being adopted.

Let’s hope the baby doesn’t continue the trend. It’s so hard for you op I wish you well but you can only do so much.

My friend went through a very similar situation as yours OP, it's heartbreaking. One thing that jumped out was the bit about drugs and you thinking they wouldn't touch them due to their birth mother's experience - this wasn't the case with my friend, they were heavily into drugs, which obv affected their moods/violence etc. They were removed from their birth parents due to the chaotic druggy lifestyle but it didn't stop the DCs from doing that themselves.

Things have calmed down a bit now for my friend - the DCs are no longer teens - they're early/mid 20s and they do have some sort of relationship with their mother. Best of luck to you.

I’ve tried my best with them and they had so much love, attention, and support not only from me (single parent) but wider family - their grandmother, aunts, uncles and cousins. Sometimes it feels like it’s all been thrown back in our faces.
I’ve suggested the foster carer adopt the baby and she’s told me it’s crossed her mind too. That would, I think, give my granddaughter the best possible chance of having a good life.
I have several friends who adopted and they’re having similar issues to me. It makes me think either nature must outweigh nurture, or very early experiences - maybe even in the womb - must play a huge part in affecting the rest of their lives.
Lots of people ask me if I regret adopting but despite everything, I’d still rather have tried and failed than spent the rest of my life wondering what if?

You sound like a lovely person. Life is so tough isn’t it? sending you love

Thanks, Poppy. I haven’t been the perfect mum - not really grasping the extent of the issues in the early days and ground down by them in the last few years - but I’ve tried.

Oh gosh this thread has made me really upse,t Ds and Ddil tried to adopt 2 little boys from a neglectful chaotic and violent background, we all loved and nutured those boys but the older of the two was such a violent unpredictable child even at 6 years old, the younger was loving and calm (he had been taken into care at 6 months old) When the older child broke DIL's arm both children were taken away, by SS (apparently they must not be separated) it broke our hearts, so much love, so much effort, so much emotional pain all round.

I wonder at the policy of placing siblings like this together in my humble opinion Dc's like this need so much input, attention, etc to have to vie with a sibling for attention and possibly be affected and influenced by the behaviour of a sibling, it provokes attention seeking even in the most stable families.

My heart goes out to you OP what a difficult time you have had, however you must protect yourself, while still wanting to be "there" for her. These children are such an odd mixture of one minute being loving and the next raging against the world, I hope that one day she will appreciate the home and love you gave her.

How old were they when you adopted them?
It just shows how important early years are.

Such a sad story.
The same has happened to several friends
They believed love was enough. Sadly the effects of alcohol and drugs in utero can cause unseen damage , not to mention the abuse some of the children have suffered pre adoption.

Just to let you know you can get a non-molestation order to prevent her going to your address which would still allow you to have a relationship with her outside of the family home.
Hope it works out.

Unfortunately attachment issues can cause 70% of adoptions to break down and in my view these DC and their new families should automatically be given mental health support and training should they need it through out the life course.

I am sorry that you and your friends have had to go through this

Dd1 won’t really talk about it. I think she finds it too painful. She also had a baby last year who was taken into care at one day old. Baby is still in foster care and looks likely to be adopted. It broke my heart to do it, but I have told children’s services what dd1 can be like and that in my view the baby shouldn’t be returned to her.

Wow.

No wonder she's angry and violent.

I suppose if she knows about your input into that decision, she's blames you (whether you dud right thing if not)

Is there any other help at all that you can access for her?