Domestic abuse from teenage daughter

[Papergirl1968]

I don’t know if this is the best place to post.
My daughters, 18 and 15, are adopted. Both have lots of issues and the oldest in particular has always been very angry.
She binge drinks and is a very unpleasant drunk, with verbal abuse, foul language, physical aggression and smashing up the house.
In the last few weeks she’s kicked and punched me, and then on Saturday she threw a heavy book hard at me, the corner of which caught me just above my eye. I was ok apart from a red, sore mark but I could have been blinded.
She was screaming abuse at me and bits of saliva were coming out of her mouth - she was literally spitting with rage. She kicked the front door repeatedly and threatened to kill me so I rang 999.
One of the police who came asked how likely I thought it on a scale of 1-10 that she’d seriously hurt me one day and I said seven or eight. She is small and I’m quite a big woman but I’m not getting any younger - early 50s - and she just doesn’t hold back at all, but loses all control. I am pretty sure that if there happened to be a kitchen knife lying around when she was in one of these rages she wouldn’t hesitate to use it. One of our cats is terrified of her and hides away from her.
I’m usually the target of her anger and it’s usually when she’s drunk but she also kicked off in a shop the other day because they refused to sell her an energy drink, and she came home one night boasting about how she’d beaten up a girl on a bus, and she wasn’t drunk on those occasions. I don’t think she’s into drugs, because she saw what drugs did to her birth mother.
Anyway, in the past she’s been charged several times with assaulting me but this time the police didn’t seem to want to arrest her - understandable given how busy they are at the moment - and took her to a friend’s. She’s now been found somewhere to live a few miles away by the council homeless team.
That’s the background and finally I’ve got to the bit I need advice on. The police put me in touch with a domestic abuse organisation who can help me get an injunction to prevent her harassing me, coming to the house etc. But I would like, in future when things have calmed down, to be able to meet her somewhere public for a coffee or a meal. The woman I spoke to said that was an unusual request as it was usual for there to be no contact between the parties (who are of course usually partners and not mother and daughter) and I’d have to ask the judge.
I’m now wondering if I’m doing the right thing. It’s a huge deal to cut your 18-year-old daughter out of your life. Perhaps it would be better if I warned her that I won’t get the injunction this time, but that I want her to stay away from our home and if she won’t, I’ll then have no choice.
She’s not a monster - the other day she cut my lawn and my elderly mom’s lawn without being asked. She’s had some awful experiences and gone through a lot. But I can’t keep on being her punchbag.
And she won’t get help for her anger or binge drinking. She went to Camhs when she was younger and saw a counsellor last year but won’t really engage.

@Mucklowe my opinion

I don’t have any answers re adoption. All I can say is I’d rather have tried and failed than remained childless and when it was too late wondered ”what if..”
And I do know I gave my DDs a better life than they had with birth parents or in foster care - their second foster carer who they were with for nearly 18 months was dreadful and not only to my two but her previous foster children too as I know their adopter.
I do think there is increasing evidence the damage starts in the womb but I believe children removed at birth or very early on stand a much better chance than those who were left with birth families for years despite very serious concerns that they are being neglected and abused and that the parents are drug addicts and/or alcoholics.

@Papergirl1968 I really feel for you. DS and DDIL only had 2 years of the trauma that you have experienced and it has floored them, two really strong and loving individuals.
I won't go into details here as they are very personal, but the fallout on the whole of their extended families has been immense.

After going through all the stringent examination that they have to have to become adoptive parents CS chose to believe an eight year old who claimed that his adopters beat him, over psycologists, teachers etc who said he lies for attention (no bruises either)!
The system is deeply flawed, I am no expert, but I can see so many areas that are not working.
I hope your DD's realise in adulthood what you have given them and the sacrifices you made to have a family. Do look after yourself

I’m so sorry to hear that, Hazel, and sadly it’s not uncommon.
Things have to change otherwise there will be an even worse shortage of adopters than there is now, especially for older children.

I agree Papergirl and I feel exactly the same as you about not regretting having tried.
You didn’t fail though, you really didn’t. Never think that .

It’s slightly different but our DD was relinquished by BM at birth and came to us from foster carers at 4 months BM had used drugs and alcohol during pregnancy but DD obviously suffered no abuse or neglect after birth .
This was 25 years ago and whilst she had a few issues growing up we supported her and loved her . Things fell apart drastically as soon as she turned 18. She is following exactly in her BMs footsteps .

I actually believe now that this was destined to happen ( nature over nurture) and nothing we could have done would have changed it. However although this was always the destination I will never regret making the journey to get there as positive as possible for her .

I think the issues are complex and a combination of damage in the womb , similar personality to birth parents, feeling of rejection and past experiences( if applicable). It’s scary really .

I don’t think we had enough training /support to deal with this from SS , but it was a long time ago and I would hope things are better now

Hoping for the very best for you all xx

Wow, Grohnjant, how sad.
I think adopters are woefully ill prepared. I was one of those who thought all they needed was love and stability. I knew they had issues but thought that after six months with me they'd be fine.
I’ve had ongoing training and support, but nothing has made much difference.

@Grohnjant @Papergirl1968 @HazelBite

Nothing more I can add, the "system" has let a lot of people, parents, children, extended families.

I hate this nature over nurture excuse. Yes personality does play a big part in decisions and how we react to things but I also think feeling, loved, secure etc also massively helps.
My parents were both heroin addicts. My aunt was a heroin addict.
I was born addicted to heroin and my mum was also massively drinking throughout pregnancy.

My mum died when I was a teenager, she left us kids when she was 12 to live with a dealer and my dad eventually stopped using.

I am not an alcoholic or a heroin addict. I have a University education.
I now have a family of my own.
All I ever craved and still do this day is family, unconditional love, support, acceptance. During my dark times in my younger years knowing my Nan loved me unconditionally really helped.
I regularly have anxiety, panic attacks and depression but this is a result I firmly believe of not ever feeling settled. Always panicking.
So I hate this whole well her Mums a drug addict so she is destined to be one.

I’m sorry you had to go through that, Rosebud, and I’m glad you achieved against the odds. It also sheds light on why you place such importance on unconditional love, support and acceptance.
I’m just not sure there is any such thing as true unconditional love. Of course every child has a right to feel they're loved unconditionally - by which I mean they shouldn’t feel their parents’ love is dependant on them achieving top grades or being pretty, sporty or whatever. But for an adult child who hurts their parent again and again, I don’t know. Maybe some parents are saints who do always love their children unconditionally, even those kids who grow up to be mass murderers, serial rapists, whatever. I’m afraid I’m not one of them. I do still love and worry about Dd1 at this moment but she’s slowly destroying all the overwhelming love I had for her before I even met her.

For those saying why can’t the OP adopt the baby: adoption is a very complicated process and I believe if social services deemed baby’s mother unfit to look after it and OP wanted to adopt the baby she would not be allowed to have any contact with her daughter in order to protect that baby, sorry if I am wrong but I believe that if a baby has been removed from a family member than a member of that family can’t adopt the child unless they have no contact at all with the child’s birth mum, at one day old at least that baby has hope of having a normal childhood and hopefully won’t end up with the same issues that can occur when children are left in unsafe situations for years

I’m not sure zOflOra but that might make sense.
Plus my age and health are against me (51 with depression, diabetes and high blood pressure) and DD2 has issues too.
I would have her if I could but on balance I think she’s better off staying with the foster carer who has had her from 24 hours old to now, just turned one. It would be a tremendous wrench for her to leave the only family she’s ever known.

Another thing to think on, is that if the op did foster or adopt the baby, chances are Ss would recommend that her dd is not allowed contact as a result. Ss don't take away children unless there is a safely reason, the op may then have to decide between her dd and her gd.

Rosebud it isn't remotely helpful to suggest that the OP is not liking what you say just becuase it's a different pov.

What you are saying is just not realistic. It is unhelpful and unkind to keep pushing a point that in practice impossible given the level of violence but is inevitably still going to make the OP feel bad.

OP, the love and many years commitment to this troubled girl is clear. FWIW I think your path is the right one.

By the way I think that the love and boundaries and care you have shown her -will- have made a difference. The damage before she came to you might well have run too deep for her ever to be able to have an emotionally stable life, but your love will have softened the worst of the distress. Just as bad stuff in a childhood can surface several decades on in people from more normal backgrounds, so can good stuff surface much later in people like your daughter.

Rayn about your nephew, there's a chance, maybe a good one, that in years to come the love poured into the boy will have worked, and he will come through it to a lesser or even greater degree.

Rosebud so sorry that you had such a traumatic childhood . It sounds like you are a really strong person to have such a successful life.
I am not using “nature over nature” as an excuse , sorry if it came across that way . I’m looking at it more as an explanation as to why despite all the love and care our DD received she has taken the path she has . It may simply be coincidence, I really am at a loss to understand it .

She is still very much loved by us all though if she wasn’t it wouldn’t be so heartbreaking .

HazelBite , sorry your family have experienced similar . So sad 😭

When things got really desperate and I was terrified DD would end up dead due to her lifestyle/choice of partner I begged the adoption team for advice/help. They told me that as she was 21 I’d finished my job 3 years previously. ( when she turned 18 ) and to forget about her and concentrate on my other child ( also adopted) and husband .
I could not believe that an adoption social worker could consider that anyone adopting a child would see it as a job . I knew at that point I’d get no help from them .

Papergirl I think you are doing the right thing. 💐

That’s shocking, Grohnjant. Parenting doesn’t end when they turn 18.
I was just going through some paperwork and found a leaflet from Adoption UK which stated 65 per cent of adopters experienced violence or aggression from their child, adopted children are 20 times more likely to be permanently excluded from school, and adopted young adults are twice as likely to be not in education, employment or training.
That suggests to me that an awful lot of both adopters and their children are struggling.

Hi OP, I do sympathise - this is very sad and a huge eye-opener.
Although it must be very hard for you, I have no doubt you are doing the right thing.

I'm convinced my godmother died of a heart attack (relatively young) due to the high level of stress and heartache caused by both of her 2 adopted daughters.

It was a long time ago, but I was convinced of it at the time, as I still am to this day - they absolutely broke her.

I have 1 birth dd and 1 adopted dd. The add was removed from bm at birth (2 hrs old) and placed in foster care, she was with the same foster Carer until she came to me at 20 months, so from an adoption perspective about as good as it can get.

She's now 8 years old, has sensory issues, adhd and attachment disorder. I also think she has anti social behaviour disorder however they won't test her for this. Her behaviour broke my marriage and due to her violence we've had to split her and her sister up. My ex now has our add during the week to give me and my dd a break. Tbh if this hadn't have happened the adoption would have broken down. We get support from Ss and various professionals but it's simply not helping. I'm afraid that children who have experienced neo natal abuse and removed from parents are way more likely to have mh issues. I was talking to my dh boss and he said his accountant had an add and it broke her. Even as an adult she still abuses her mother, breaks into the house and steals etc. She's now looking to move to Scotland and not tell her dd where she's moving to.

If anyone comes and asks my advice for adoption I advise them to think very carefully about it and explain what it really takes.

So no advice really op except I do think you are doing the right thing

I wonder if it was being removed from birth mother or foster carer that did the damage, Copy, or if it was a combination of the two.

@Papergirl1968 probably a combination of both, the foster home was very busy with 8 children (3 adopted and birth) and 5 foster, so children came and went on a regular basis, plus there is evidence that bm also took amphetamines whilst pregnant

I really don't feel we were prepared properly and had inadequate preparation, we were led to believe that our dd had no behavioural issues and would be fine, I know 20 months is early days, but we really did have rose tinted glasses presented to us. Had I known then, what I know now I'd never had gone through with it. The issue I have, is that I also have to protect my birth daughter. At one point she was classed as a 'child at risk' by Ss due to the violence her sister showed towards her. I had to do something about that otherwise my bdd would have been removed - madness

Which one is older, Copy?

My bc is 12, my add is 8. I honestly dread to think what's going to happen when my add hits puberty and is bigger

Sorry you also in this situation Copy So sad it damaged your marriage too , it does put a heck of a strain on all relationships in the family.

I think you are right it’s a whole host of factors combining together to create the problems .

I’m shocked to think that you adopted 20 years after me and still you feel you were ill prepared . I had really hoped things would have improved .

I agree It makes it harder when you have another child in the mix as you really need to protect them too. We have a adopted son 2 years older than DD . He came to us at 6 weeks old, no history of drug or alcohol abuse,. Very straight forward . He has a very laid back personality and we’ve had no issues .

The problems with DD have had a detrimental effect on him and other members of our immediate and extended family and for that I feel extremely guilty.

Hope you find lots of support for the teenage years I have no advice other than to make sure you look after yourself in all of this . 💐

Papergirl -hope you are feeling Ok today x

Yes, thank you, Grohnjant. I had a call from police asking if I wanted to do a victim personal statement and asking if I wanted the court the impose a restraining order, and said yes to both, although I explained I wanted to be able to see her on neutral territory when things have calmed down
Copy, goodness, I’d assumed your add was older than your dd. I think adopted kids find adolescence particularly tough - as do their parents. The moods abdvthe hormones, drink, drugs, and sex, and of course they’re bigger and stronger.
My two used to do Brownies, gymnastics, dance etc but gave it all up once they reached 13 or 14, and at that point started running off and getting into quite serious trouble with the police and at school too. Youngest was permanently excluded at 13, oldest hung on by the skin of her teeth, but both had countless temporary exclusions. Then at 16 oldest dropped out of college and went to live 100-plus miles away with a boyfriend and his grandfather, and a few months later came back pregnant.
Of course your add might not follow the same pattern.
You’re right to protect your youngest.

She has a personality disorder ring single point access and get her some help or ring iapt for counselling.

Hows your 15 yr old?

So.your 18 year old has a baby where is the baby?