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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Constant arguments about cleaning and his hygiene

182 replies

Douleur · 15/04/2020 08:04

DH and I have just had another one of our never ending arguments about cleaning.

The usual routine at night is that he walks DD to sleep and then one of us stays with her at night, she doesn’t sleep alone we have tried everything and are waiting until she is ready. Then whoever isn’t sleeping with her goes downstairs and cleans the kitchen and the living room. Last night she fell asleep on the boob earlier than usual. He had a bit of a strange reaction and he wanted me to move her into the room he normally sleeps in, I said I wasn’t risking waking her up he argued with me for a while so I said once she unlatched from me he could take over. She normally takes a few hours to finally unlatch and so he went downstairs to ‘clean’.

We have a really small house so closing doors is really important, when he left he didn’t close the door and I could hear crashing dishes, the front door being slammed so I text him repeatedly asking him to shut the door. He didn’t respond to any texts. He came back upstairs 30 minutes ago, I repeated that once she unlatches we can swap. I managed to wriggle free and we swapped places. I went downstairs and he hadn’t cleaned anything and had left dishes to do in the 90 minutes I had been with DD. He also spilt half a bottle of thyme by the microwave a week ago that I had asked him to clean up, I refuse to do it because he always does stuff like this and leaves it for me to clean like I am his maid. The thyme was still there. I texted him asking why he had left all that stuff for me to clean. He ignored me. I cleaned the kitchen and the living room and went to bed.

This morning I asked him why he couldn’t clean up the thyme and he just said that he’ll do it today. I kept saying that I had asked him to clean it when he split it and he just said that he would do it today and I was being unreasonable. He really believes that having to ask him multiple times to do something he has agreed to do is normal.

We also don't have very much and I have a rug that I desperately try to keep nice. When DD was smaller and I did all the nights with her for about two weeks everytime I came down in the morning the baby's playmat would be out, this was odd . I finally saw that he had spilt a glass of wine on my cream rug (bought pre-baby) and didn't bother to try to clean it, he just put the mat on it. When I asked him why he didn't say anything he just said that he forgot.

Cleaning has been a huge issue our relationship. He is supposed to clean the bathroom once a week and I do the three bedrooms and hallways every Saturday. For four months I had to beg him to clean the bathroom, I asked, I reminded, I suggested, I cried, I finally wrote out how to clean the bathroom in a step by step because he claimed not to know how to (he then lost the step by step). He still didn’t do it. After four months I did it and he stood in the hallway with DD who was calling for me and he taunted me saying ‘DD wants you, why are you ignoring her’.

I think his reasoning is that he does 90% of the dishes so that’s all he should do. He also has awful hygiene to the point where I recently thought he was holding a bin bag but it was just the stench coming from a certain part of his body (I'm trying to be delicate). He doesn't shower for weeks and smells so badly we can't have sex but he's not bothered. He just laughed in my face when I told him that smell was unacceptable and went through my phone (this is fine we both have access to each other's phones) to find messages I'd sent to friends asking for advice about his smell and read them out to me laughing. I don't think he particularly cares about having sex with me which doesn't make me feel great. We are also supposed to be ttc baby number 2 but since DD was born two years ago we've had sex five times. Before DD I used to take him to the shower and shower with him. We can’t afford a cleaner and we’re Catholic so no divorce but what can I do? I’ve just cried in my bedroom from the frustration.

OP posts:
BackseatCookers · 15/04/2020 18:05

St Mitchum?

richteasandcheese · 16/04/2020 00:46

For your sanity, you can gently transition your 2 year old to wean off the breast at night - the Dr Jay Gordon method is gentle and she will be more than ready to grasp it at 2. Getting more sleep will help you deal with the rest....

SocialConnection · 16/04/2020 00:53

It's called coercive control. He makes you do everything, spies on your phone and refuses basic hygiene. No respect, no compassion, no kindness to you or baby.

SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace · 16/04/2020 01:04

What would you tell your DD if she were in your position? Would you offer to pray for her or would you beg her to leave and rediscover her self worth away from that filthy animal she called a husband?

Hatethewordhun · 16/04/2020 01:11

@backseatCookers 😂😂😂😂

justmilknosugarplease · 16/04/2020 02:06

I'm pro co-sleeping, pro breastfeeding and would never sleep train and I find your sleeping arrangements exhausting.

I also think you're relationships are dysfunctional and toxic. This isn't healthy for anyone.

Peppafrig · 16/04/2020 02:42

Plenty of catholics get divorced it 2020. Not 1920. Divorce him OP you deserve better that isn't a way to live it's really not.

Peppafrig · 16/04/2020 02:46

Should add it sounds like a cult your in not the Catholic Church.

Seaside1234 · 16/04/2020 04:04

He doesn’t shower for weeks. Really, shouldn’t that say it all? Would you not wash your child for weeks?

TheSquitz · 16/04/2020 06:26

Being a Catholic does not mean you should give up all chance of living a happy life. Please do not consider having another child with this man and get the hell out of it.

FlowerArranger · 16/04/2020 06:55

When I read Chickencuddle's recent thread I thought "This is the most horrific story I've ever read - it can't possibly get any worse!"....... And then I came across this...

@Douleur...... This is totally insane! The way you are living - it is destroying you and it WILL also destroy your daughter. This is how serious this is, and you cannot allow this situation to continue.

Jesus said that "as I have loved you, so you must love one another", and he urged his disciples to be
"kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other". The emphasis is on kindness and reciprocity. Your husband is neither kind nor loving, and he does not repay you in any way for the good deeds you offer him in your daily life. On the contrary, by not showering and exposing your daughter to his stench he is showing you contempt of the worst kind. Presumably he is a Christian too, so he is going against Christ's teaching.

Yes, you sound somewhat neurotic regarding cleaning and your daughter's feeding and sleeping, but I suspect these are the only aspects of your life you feel you have any control over. You have become accepting of his abuse because you have been abused and brainwashed your entire life. Your life has become one of suffering and you have become a martyr. However, there is no special place in heaven for your kind of martyrdom.

You cannot call yourself a Christian (or a decent human being for that matter - this isn't about religion!) and stay in this marriage. You were given this one and only precious life, which you believe to have been given by God, and it is YOUR responsibility to create for yourself, and you daughter, the very best life you can.

Please, I urge you to do what you need to do and leave this horrible man, for your daughter's sake if not your own. Please believe that both of you WILL thrive! Flowers

ProEUandVegan · 16/04/2020 07:07

First of all OP, please do not be persuaded that you are doing wrong by continuing to breastfeed your daughter. Some posters seem to be shocked. There is much to support a child feeding much longer than is the norm here. As with bed sharing and nursing to sleep. Although ... as a breastfeeding mum of older children I can say it would have been easier if they had learned to sleep without me.

Breastfeeding to 3 and 4 years of age has been common in much of the world until recently in human history, and it is still common in many societies for toddlers to breastfeed whale.to/a/newman.html

Your husband's attitude sucks. Disrespectful to you and your daughter and ultimately to himself. The way you describe his personal hygiene feels like it's a possible mental health problem of his own. Certainly something he needs to address. To abuse his own body so, to get at you? Gross and very strange.

As for his lack of involvement in caring for your home - it is of course not right.

IMO, you need to face up to the fact this marriage is not working and do some serious research as to your options. Beyond your religious community as well. Conceiving another child feels a recipe for disaster.

What sort of joint counselling did you have? Doing more, and some separate work as well could be beneficial, if he's willing. Only from a counsellor/therapist who does not think staying married is the only option.

www.relate.org.uk/relationship-help/help-relationships/relationship-counselling

AnnaNimmity · 16/04/2020 07:09

I'm wondering what faith you have that is saying that you have to bring up your dd in such a horrible toxic relationship. You are damaging her. Is that ok for your God?

And you'll bring another baby into this mess too?

It sounds horrendous. And cruel.

And yes I did attachment parenting for all of mine, and breastfed some of them to 3 years old. none were falling asleep on the boob at 2. If they weren't asleep, they were in the sling so I could still get things done. I certainly didn't spend all evening sitting in darkened rooms texting my partner about cleaning.

(and his personal hygiene sounds horrendous. The relationship sounds awful. This is your life. ).

TheWordmeister · 16/04/2020 08:12

I’m a bit confused why your Catholic Church has a pastor ?

Me too.

It also doesn’t sound like any Catholic Church I’ve heard of.

FlowerArranger · 16/04/2020 08:23

I’m a bit confused why your Catholic Church has a pastor?

Maybe OP is American and/or lives in the US?

Might also explain why their church gets so closely involved with counseling on intimate matters.

Nanny0gg · 16/04/2020 08:59

This is the life you want for your daughter?

pusspuss9 · 16/04/2020 09:16

Maybe OP is American and/or lives in the US?

She says she lives in UK and that she's not American. All very puzzling. It really does sound like a sect to me.

I0NA · 16/04/2020 09:23

Maybe OP is American and/or lives in the US?

The OP said they live in England and her husband is English. American RC churches have priests too.

I don’t know of any English churches, Catholic or otherwise, which offer intimate sexual counselling. For obvious reasons - vicars, pastors and priests are not qualified in this and because of the historical abuse in some churches they would always suggest qualified external agencies.

I also don’t know of any denominations which teach that women must suffer in marriage and that the wife must be the model of Christ, that’s the opposite of Biblical teaching.

Of course I don’t know every single Catholic Church in the UK, but they all come under the same religious authorities, headed by Archbishop Nichols. They can’t just make it up as they go along.

Here are resources for Uk Catholics on domestic abuse

www.cedar.uk.net/

Here there are diocesan contact for family ministry for every area of England and Wales.

The Pope spoke out last year about the “ scourge of domestic abuse “.
www.cbcew.org.uk/pope-francis-gives-support-to-day-for-life-2019-the-scourge-of-domestic-abuse/

One in four women and about one in six men suffer from domestic abuse in their lifetime. Two women are killed every week in England by a partner or ex-partner

Bishop John Sherrington, the bishop responsible for Day for Life in England and Wales, said:

‘These shocking statistics call us to fight against the scourge of domestic abuse. For those who are experiencing domestic abuse, the home is far from being a place of security and self-fulfilment. Too often it is a place of suffering, fear, degradation and isolation. Domestic abuse is often a hidden problem, and our aim is for anyone experiencing domestic abuse to feel able to have confidence to seek help within the Church setting. We want to raise awareness in our churches which would be a step towards addressing this serious moral and social problem

So maybe the OP could discuss some of this with the pastor in her Catholic Church.

I don’t understand how the Op is so sheltered that she had her first kiss at 20 yet she knows abused and trafficked women.

And that she is waiting to get NHS counselling from a psychiatrist, yet her husband paid for counselling for them both to show how committed he was to a relationship. Why can’t be pay for counselling for her now ?

I’m very confused about a lot of things.

Gutterton · 16/04/2020 09:24

Just being in the same house as this man with such shocking hygiene (I doubt he is doing the 20 second hand wash multiple times a day?) is putting your DD’s health at serious risk from potentially fatal infectious diseases - but letting her sleep intimately with him is just irresponsible.

Google it.

“Inadequate domestic and personal hygiene can cause:

  1. Bacterial:

food poisoning
gastroenteritis
diarrhoea caused by Campylobacter
pneumonia
trachoma
skin infections

  1. Viral:

hepatitis A
gastroenteritis
colds and flu

  1. Parasitic:

giardiasis
scabies infection
pediculosis (head lice infection)
hookworm infection
threadworm infection
roundworm infection (strongyloides)

Poor domestic and personal hygiene practices can help the transmission of disease-causing germs:
directly by the faecal-oral route, or by person to person or pet to person contact
indirectly by vectors coming into contact with people or their food, people breathing in airborne droplets of moisture which contain germs or eating contaminated food.

The above list doesn’t even include COVID.

FlowerArranger · 16/04/2020 09:39

Sorry I missed the reference to her being in the UK.

As for her seeing a psychiatrist, this is indeed odd. Psychiatrists don't do counselling as such; they deal with mental health issues and psychiatric disorders. Maybe @Douleur can explain?

Clearly she would benefit from proper counseling - from a BACP* accredited counsellor rather than some pastor at her (weird) church.

[* British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy]

Smilebehappy123 · 16/04/2020 09:49

@limpbizkit
Let me get this straight this man has let his dick stink that bad that OP thought he was holding a bin bag , to spite her ??? What about his poor cock ??
Get the fuck out of here,.would you let your vagina stink that bad that people thought you was holding fish to spite your other half ?? Surely they have friends whom they socialise pre Covid who would be like WTF ?
Does the dirty bastard have a job ? Bet his boss loves the smell of dick cheese
I think this is the worse thing iv ever read, he would be our the door the dirty dirty man
Catholic or no catholic, consider changing religion and divorce him

Smilebehappy123 · 16/04/2020 09:55

@MehitabelWhurl
That comment has made my day
He is a dirty disgusting bastard and god cant help him only soap and water Smile

hewasatwunt · 16/04/2020 09:57

As for her seeing a psychiatrist, this is indeed odd. Psychiatrists don't do counselling as such; they deal with mental health issues and psychiatric disorders

@FlowerArranger OP said she suffers from depression, and sometimes self-harm, and she's not currently on medication due to breast feeding. That would be very difficult. If a GP has done all they can, they will refer someone to a consultant to decide a course of treatment, this can include going on a waiting list to see a psychologist etc, but meds make a lot of difference to many people.

I personally woldn't breast feed if it meant coming off some meds that were helping. But that's a matter of personal choice. Maybe there are meds that are better for someone who's breastfeeding, that a consultant could consider.

Smilebehappy123 · 16/04/2020 09:59

Poor fucking kid also getting in the bath with him
Why would you subject your child to this

pusspuss9 · 16/04/2020 10:17

A lot of people focussing on his smell, but I think the main problem here is the OP.
She needs to be getting advice from somebody other than this 'pastor' who frankly seems to be a quack judging from the advice he's giving. Also the hours spent sitting with the little one latched on seems massively OTT. It's negatively affecting their whole lives. The sleeping arrangements are also pretty weird.
Obviously his personal hygiene needs addressing as well but it seems there is something disfunctional going on in this household which could possibly be put right with some help and good advice.