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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Constant arguments about cleaning and his hygiene

182 replies

Douleur · 15/04/2020 08:04

DH and I have just had another one of our never ending arguments about cleaning.

The usual routine at night is that he walks DD to sleep and then one of us stays with her at night, she doesn’t sleep alone we have tried everything and are waiting until she is ready. Then whoever isn’t sleeping with her goes downstairs and cleans the kitchen and the living room. Last night she fell asleep on the boob earlier than usual. He had a bit of a strange reaction and he wanted me to move her into the room he normally sleeps in, I said I wasn’t risking waking her up he argued with me for a while so I said once she unlatched from me he could take over. She normally takes a few hours to finally unlatch and so he went downstairs to ‘clean’.

We have a really small house so closing doors is really important, when he left he didn’t close the door and I could hear crashing dishes, the front door being slammed so I text him repeatedly asking him to shut the door. He didn’t respond to any texts. He came back upstairs 30 minutes ago, I repeated that once she unlatches we can swap. I managed to wriggle free and we swapped places. I went downstairs and he hadn’t cleaned anything and had left dishes to do in the 90 minutes I had been with DD. He also spilt half a bottle of thyme by the microwave a week ago that I had asked him to clean up, I refuse to do it because he always does stuff like this and leaves it for me to clean like I am his maid. The thyme was still there. I texted him asking why he had left all that stuff for me to clean. He ignored me. I cleaned the kitchen and the living room and went to bed.

This morning I asked him why he couldn’t clean up the thyme and he just said that he’ll do it today. I kept saying that I had asked him to clean it when he split it and he just said that he would do it today and I was being unreasonable. He really believes that having to ask him multiple times to do something he has agreed to do is normal.

We also don't have very much and I have a rug that I desperately try to keep nice. When DD was smaller and I did all the nights with her for about two weeks everytime I came down in the morning the baby's playmat would be out, this was odd . I finally saw that he had spilt a glass of wine on my cream rug (bought pre-baby) and didn't bother to try to clean it, he just put the mat on it. When I asked him why he didn't say anything he just said that he forgot.

Cleaning has been a huge issue our relationship. He is supposed to clean the bathroom once a week and I do the three bedrooms and hallways every Saturday. For four months I had to beg him to clean the bathroom, I asked, I reminded, I suggested, I cried, I finally wrote out how to clean the bathroom in a step by step because he claimed not to know how to (he then lost the step by step). He still didn’t do it. After four months I did it and he stood in the hallway with DD who was calling for me and he taunted me saying ‘DD wants you, why are you ignoring her’.

I think his reasoning is that he does 90% of the dishes so that’s all he should do. He also has awful hygiene to the point where I recently thought he was holding a bin bag but it was just the stench coming from a certain part of his body (I'm trying to be delicate). He doesn't shower for weeks and smells so badly we can't have sex but he's not bothered. He just laughed in my face when I told him that smell was unacceptable and went through my phone (this is fine we both have access to each other's phones) to find messages I'd sent to friends asking for advice about his smell and read them out to me laughing. I don't think he particularly cares about having sex with me which doesn't make me feel great. We are also supposed to be ttc baby number 2 but since DD was born two years ago we've had sex five times. Before DD I used to take him to the shower and shower with him. We can’t afford a cleaner and we’re Catholic so no divorce but what can I do? I’ve just cried in my bedroom from the frustration.

OP posts:
Techway · 15/04/2020 10:45

Can you say what country you are in as your faith restrictions seem much stricter than Christians in the UK. Divorce is not against the faith, no bishop would encourage marriages where there is abuse, but remarrying when divorced is (as it's deemed you are still married).

However I think your marriage has got into a toxic cycle and you play a part in that. He does seem passive aggressive and by trying to get him to clean he is ramping up the behaviour. As an earlier poster said "a dirty protest".

Your routine for your daughter and household chores isn't working for both of you but you equally seen determined that nothing will change. If YOU don't try to change and he won't then the situation will never get better. Do you think you can cajole, shame, beg him to change? Remember focus on what you can do to change the dynamic and that means YOU might need to take on board advice here re your daughter's routine. I don't think you breast feeding your 2 year trumps him having time on his phone.

However you maybe completely incompatible with hygiene as he seems happy to live in a dirty house, whilst also never washing. Have you been together long enough to know if "unclean" is him?

Research passive aggressive behaviour and how you can change the dynamic...that might be a helpful strategy but ultimately he will need to want to change his reaction to perceived control.

NaturalBornWoman · 15/04/2020 10:45

We are also supposed to be ttc baby number 2

Why?

Tsubasa1 · 15/04/2020 10:46

I know catholics who have divorced and so can you. For you own sake

Whatsnewpussyhat · 15/04/2020 10:46

Being Catholic is no reason to be stuck in an unhappy marriage in this bloody century. He is doing it on purpose. He has absolutely zero respect for you.

Would you expect your DD to stay with a man like this?

BackseatCookers · 15/04/2020 10:47

Imagine having such contempt for someone that you won't wash even though it makes them sad and unable to be physically close to you.

Men like this hate women. We are there for them, we don't exist in our own right.

To him you are a wife and mother of his child therefore you should do as your told.

This is why I can't understand some people's religious beliefs. Why would god, who tells us to treat others as we would treat ourselves, want someone like your husband to be such an insufferable bastard.

It's a shower. You gave birth to his child. But you're not worth a shower to him.

reallywhereisthebar · 15/04/2020 10:48

@limpbizkit a grown man who has fathered a child is "rebelling" by not having a shower?! He's rebelling by allowing himself stink? How is that normal behaviour? Their marriage is falling apart and he is "rebelling"! What a shame!

Cambionome · 15/04/2020 10:51

Op, I'm glad to hear that your little dd is happy at the moment, but she won't have an emotionally healthy childhood if she grows up in this awful situation that you and your dh have created.

I don't blame you for nagging and getting upset - I think I would have lost it with him by now - but the way you are dealing with it is not working. Would you consider getting some counselling? Not because you are in the wrong, but because it might help you to put some appropriate boundaries in place here.

YippeeKayakOtherBuckets · 15/04/2020 10:52

I just knew he’d be much older than you.

You are using your DD as an avoidance tactic, I think. Which is fine.

You absolutely can leave him. Any religion that says you can’t is worthless. No god would want you to stay in an unhappy abusive marriage. He is revolting and not being a proper husband.

Cherrysoup · 15/04/2020 10:54

Please don’t have another baby with this dreadful excuse for a human. He doesn’t care about you. Of course you can divorce, I’m appalled that you think you can’t. I’m Catholic, if I’d made a mistake and my DH was behaving in this way, I would leave him. He’s an appalling example for your child.

doodleygirl · 15/04/2020 10:55

I would equate a clean and caring husband as a necessity for a happy home. OP no matter how religious you are you do not have to live with this, it is not an environment which your daughter should be brought up in.

YippeeKayakOtherBuckets · 15/04/2020 10:56

Op what was in your marriage vows?

Cherish? Love and honour? None of this is happening. So the vows are broken. So you can leave.

VettiyaIruken · 15/04/2020 10:58

I'm not convinced that God wants you to give over the rest of your days to a man with a fetid penis who shows through his words and actions that he has no respect for you and barely likes let alone loves you.

As for having a second child with him - bleach, wire wool and a hazmat suit isn't the most romantic foreplay.

gamerchick · 15/04/2020 11:03

You let your kid sleep in the same bed as this smelly specimen? Fucking hell Hmm

Don't have another baby, it's unfair to expose one kid to this shit than do it to another one. Poor kid.

RantyAnty · 15/04/2020 11:07

Has he given any reasons for his shower dodging?

I would insist he get his manky arse in the shower. Especially now with covid19. He'll have swarms of bacteria and fungus building up on his skin from not washing. Staph, MRSA, Ringworm, Athlete’s foot, Onychomycosis, etc.
It really is a health hazard.

Have you had any antenatal or parenting classes? It would be a great idea to get you both parenting classes.

Treating your 2 year old like an infant will damage her.

And yes, she can learn to sleep alone. Really. You and your DH both learned how to sleep alone and she will be able too.

How is she doing developmentally? Speaking? Playing with others?
Think about starting to get her weaned off the breast by the end of the year.

The infant phase is lovely but so are the many other phases a child goes through.

pilotsprincess · 15/04/2020 11:07

Wiedest thread ive read in a long time.
My little girl slept in my bed as a toddler as well but latched on for hours and cant move in case she wakes, at age 2? 🤣🙈 thats not wonderfully attached, your job is to learn your little one basic life skills like being able to settle off to sleep and you know be clean and hygienic.
Cant believe you allow a man who hasn't showered for weeks to sleep in a bed with your child, just beyond disgusting!

Gutterton · 15/04/2020 11:11

Get hold of the book below - it’s also in paper back and audio. It’s an eye opener. Those of us brought up in abusive households don’t know how to parent fully even though we try really hard - because we have an emotional deficit or injury. There will be gaps in our knowledge and skills. We may think that doing the total opposite of our abusive childhood homes is the right way but it often isn’t and is often an over reaction and leads to its own issues. If you read this book you will see where the gaps are and where YOU are doing great. It will also show you the massive compromises that your DH is bringing to the family.

As PP said I would also look for counselling for yourself as a physically abusive parent and one with MH issues (hoarding) will have left a wound that will also impact your DD unintentionally by you. So get this addressed. Focus on you, your parenting, your emotional state.

www.waterstones.com/book/the-book-you-wish-your-parents-had-read-and-your-children-will-be-glad-that-you-did/philippa-perry9780241250990?awaid=3787&utm_source=redbrain&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=css&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4dr0BRCxARIsAKUNjWReZY3sht3MY7S3EuZet1SGZoPIMSiKAA0_aWJ1gpSx1Qy7gr29nAYaArZREALw_wcB&awc=3787_1586944833_84d10ebad12a110953ce2d35dc1ff0b2

Douleur · 15/04/2020 11:12

Also, thank you for your responses, there are lots of things I haven't considered. We never argue in front of DD. Never. We have had counselling pre-DD and it was focused on his apathy towards me. He paid for all the sessions as a way of showing that he wanted a relationship so I thought he did. I don't have any experience with men, he was my first kiss at 20. I am trying to access counselling but he has just had his salary cut due to the crisis. It took me years to get a psychiatric appointment on the NHS and on the day I was to be seen the psychiatrist was ill and I haven't heard back.

My mother is abusive and has been to prison, the not visiting is fine and my siblings are all low contact with her. I wouldn't be shunned by anyone in the church if we separated, the church has made some progress (not enough). I just thought that maybe this issue was fixable? I'm not perfect, I am really negative and when not breastfeeding am medicated for depression. He is very patient with this, I just need him to wash regularly. It just sounds so silly.

OP posts:
Aussiebean · 15/04/2020 11:13

Why can’t you go to the pastor by yourself?

doadeer · 15/04/2020 11:17

If you have to sleep with DD constantly when do you have time together away from your daughter?

Hoggleludo · 15/04/2020 11:17

I used to hoover round my kids. As babies. Both are now super heavy sleepers. I swear to do that

I also use my hairdryer when asleep. I remember my friend scolding me because I'd rung her at 8.30pm and she'd forgotten to take the phone off the hook. So the ring could of women her kids up

Madness! It really is.

Tableclothing · 15/04/2020 11:21

We can't separate or divorce

Why not? What would be the consequences?

Hoggleludo · 15/04/2020 11:22

I can't get over this thread. I mean I attend church. But my gosh. My pastor married us. But my husband isn't religious. But even he would tell me to do what makes ME happy. Life is about you

Your child is soon going to feel this resentment. She's going to SEE it. She's going to smel it for sure it seems. You CANNOT KID A CHILD. Trust me. She will begin to feel the resentment

You want her thinking it's ok for a woman to be treated by a man like this?

What would your suggestion be if in 20 years. Your daughter comes and says her husband is like this and how unhappy she is? What would be your response?!? Tell me.

Douleur · 15/04/2020 11:22

Thank your for the Philippa Perry book recommendation, I've bought it. We don't have any time with each other. I did approach the pastor with a very, very vague request. I feel very embarrassed about it. I once woke my DD when my wrist bone clicked, she is a very light sleeper. If she wakes up I have to feed her back to sleep and I'm so sore and tired.

OP posts:
PartTimeTeacherOfEnglish · 15/04/2020 11:24

I'm sorry, OP, but as a Catholic myself this is unacceptable on any level. Please remember that most of the church rules are man made, not God made. There is a difference. You're allowing yourself to excuse not separating due to man made rules. God does NOT want you to live like this. The whole point about marriage is that both parties are fully committed and share the same goals. Please don't hide behind 'I can't, I'm Catholic' because that's not right. You can BECAUSE you're Catholic.

And I'm afraid I'm in agreement with others who say your daughter needs to sleep by herself by this age. She's not getting enough of the right kind of sleep - you want to think she is, because you're afraid of a little bit of upset that goes with getting her in to a new routine, but honestly, for her physical wellbeing you need to make sure she starts to sleep by herself. Yes, she might cry a bit when you first leave her, but if you're strong it will take less than a week for her to sleep without you feeding her or cuddling her. Honestly, it will. But you have to commit to starting, and not give in once you do.

But I think you're scared of doing that because it will mean that you and your (D?) H will have to share time together, instead of having the excuse of one of you being with her. I think you need to be honest about that, and if that is the case, then we're back to separation being the only course of action.

Do you want your DD to think this is normal? Because that's not fair on her to think it is.

Stop using religion as a defence - it's not, and it never should be. You live in the UK. We have laws and regulations that mean you can leave, and do so safely. And then - you're so very young, too - build a life with someone who actually is deserving of you. I hope you can take that option.

Shoxfordian · 15/04/2020 11:28

He doesn't seem like a good husband and he clearly has no respect for you. Don't waste your life like this

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