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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Constant arguments about cleaning and his hygiene

182 replies

Douleur · 15/04/2020 08:04

DH and I have just had another one of our never ending arguments about cleaning.

The usual routine at night is that he walks DD to sleep and then one of us stays with her at night, she doesn’t sleep alone we have tried everything and are waiting until she is ready. Then whoever isn’t sleeping with her goes downstairs and cleans the kitchen and the living room. Last night she fell asleep on the boob earlier than usual. He had a bit of a strange reaction and he wanted me to move her into the room he normally sleeps in, I said I wasn’t risking waking her up he argued with me for a while so I said once she unlatched from me he could take over. She normally takes a few hours to finally unlatch and so he went downstairs to ‘clean’.

We have a really small house so closing doors is really important, when he left he didn’t close the door and I could hear crashing dishes, the front door being slammed so I text him repeatedly asking him to shut the door. He didn’t respond to any texts. He came back upstairs 30 minutes ago, I repeated that once she unlatches we can swap. I managed to wriggle free and we swapped places. I went downstairs and he hadn’t cleaned anything and had left dishes to do in the 90 minutes I had been with DD. He also spilt half a bottle of thyme by the microwave a week ago that I had asked him to clean up, I refuse to do it because he always does stuff like this and leaves it for me to clean like I am his maid. The thyme was still there. I texted him asking why he had left all that stuff for me to clean. He ignored me. I cleaned the kitchen and the living room and went to bed.

This morning I asked him why he couldn’t clean up the thyme and he just said that he’ll do it today. I kept saying that I had asked him to clean it when he split it and he just said that he would do it today and I was being unreasonable. He really believes that having to ask him multiple times to do something he has agreed to do is normal.

We also don't have very much and I have a rug that I desperately try to keep nice. When DD was smaller and I did all the nights with her for about two weeks everytime I came down in the morning the baby's playmat would be out, this was odd . I finally saw that he had spilt a glass of wine on my cream rug (bought pre-baby) and didn't bother to try to clean it, he just put the mat on it. When I asked him why he didn't say anything he just said that he forgot.

Cleaning has been a huge issue our relationship. He is supposed to clean the bathroom once a week and I do the three bedrooms and hallways every Saturday. For four months I had to beg him to clean the bathroom, I asked, I reminded, I suggested, I cried, I finally wrote out how to clean the bathroom in a step by step because he claimed not to know how to (he then lost the step by step). He still didn’t do it. After four months I did it and he stood in the hallway with DD who was calling for me and he taunted me saying ‘DD wants you, why are you ignoring her’.

I think his reasoning is that he does 90% of the dishes so that’s all he should do. He also has awful hygiene to the point where I recently thought he was holding a bin bag but it was just the stench coming from a certain part of his body (I'm trying to be delicate). He doesn't shower for weeks and smells so badly we can't have sex but he's not bothered. He just laughed in my face when I told him that smell was unacceptable and went through my phone (this is fine we both have access to each other's phones) to find messages I'd sent to friends asking for advice about his smell and read them out to me laughing. I don't think he particularly cares about having sex with me which doesn't make me feel great. We are also supposed to be ttc baby number 2 but since DD was born two years ago we've had sex five times. Before DD I used to take him to the shower and shower with him. We can’t afford a cleaner and we’re Catholic so no divorce but what can I do? I’ve just cried in my bedroom from the frustration.

OP posts:
OldBean2 · 15/04/2020 12:56

I write this as the daughter of a Parish Priest's housekeeper and an Irish Catholic. I am really not sure which Church you attend but it sounds like no Catholic church I have ever been to.

You would never be shunned by the church if you separated or divorced, please don't hide behind that or if you believe that, then find another congregation. By staying, you are making it worse for your children, you may not argue in front of them but they will pick up the tension between you and it will make for a miserable childhood. In truth, you are already living separate lives... you no longer share a bedroom, perhaps now is the time to no longer share a house and forge a happier future for you and children.

God does not want you to be miserable and suffer... surely you were taught that He went through the crucifixion so we didn't have to?

KrakowDawn · 15/04/2020 13:03

Jesus was a kind person who helped those that suffered. Of course holiness is important, but what about "cleanliness is next to Godliness"?
If your pastor can help your husband see that, then that would be good, wouldn't it?
It doesn't sound as though your husband cherishes you much though, I'm sorry.

Gutterton · 15/04/2020 13:25

You may have had a history of self harm and depression before you met him - but he has made this worse and worse.

This is not an environment where you can heal - it has ground you down and exacerbated it.

You have moved directly from one overtly physically abusive toxic environment (your mother) to another covertly emotionally abusive toxic environment with your DH.

You cannot heal in this space with his burden and your DD deserves a parent free of MH issues so that you can be properly “attuned” to her and not preoccupied, wound up and ground down marching some donkey to the shower. She will also be ashamed of him and will know he stinks.

You don’t have to “blame” him if that’s uncomfortable - but recognising you are incompatible is a major step forward.

I have lived large parts of your experience (add in an alcohol) and know that I only left when I thought I was going to die of stress and recognising just because I was trained to stomach anything my DCs did not deserve this environment or a DM on the brink. I also had “suffered” cPTSD, multiple depressions and was rattling around with every combination of ADs.

When we separated and I had therapy “MY” MH issue miraculously lifted and I have been AD and depression free for a decade. My children’s lives have transformed.

I am now the calm and peaceful Mum they need not the raging, frustrated harridan I can become in that toxic soup.

Verily1 · 15/04/2020 13:38

This is like something out of the 16th century!

Is your dd better off suffering too?

Being exposed to domestic abuse, as she is, she doesn’t have to be in the room to feel the effects, is harmful to her.

It is deliberate emotional child abuse for this to continue with no insight and no plan to resolve it.

I dont want to cross over into victim blaming but you have to take some responsibility for the conscious choices you are making. Who do you love more God or DD?

BackseatCookers · 15/04/2020 13:53

Also, God cares more about our holiness than our happiness.

Does God care more about your holiness than your daughter's happiness?

And equally importantly (or more IMO), do you?

You're teaching her what a relationship looks like. It's not fair on her, at all.

SambaMamba · 15/04/2020 13:55

God. You need to sort this sleep shit out. Then bin him

SambaMamba · 15/04/2020 13:59

Your sleeping “philosophy “ is screwed. Of course she’d sleep. The texting is nuts. The church nuts

Neveranynamesleft · 15/04/2020 14:12

I wasnt suggesting you are in danger at all, I would say its more mental abuse than anything. I'm sure there are places out there that can help you, please don't feel that you are stuck in this situation.

JKScot4 · 15/04/2020 14:15

@OldBean2
I’m thinking much the same myself, Catholic Churches don’t have a pastor or palms you off with just pray!!
Not very Christian of OP txting friends about her husbands hygiene and asking them to pray!
I’m more inclined towards some more extreme, male led religion that’s very outdated.

reallywhereisthebar · 15/04/2020 14:28

Is it me or is it weird that a 2-year old is still breastfeeding????

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/04/2020 14:35

Oh come on - you're contemplating bed sharing until your DD is 9?

As for dh smelling - there was a thread yesterday where a man had told his wife she smelled. Every single poster told her that he was lying, just covering up his own insecurities and that if a couple loved each other they would find the smell attractive ( I kid you not)!

Yet here it's ok for s wife to complain to her friends and her priest about her husband's genitals?

This marriage sounds dreadful - on both sides. As for being Catholic I know two people who met and started an affair after they met at church. Both divorced their partners and got married. Both Catholic, so if they can be forgiven I'm sure the op can.

1forAll74 · 15/04/2020 14:39

You have a very odd,and stressful relationship going on there, seemingly,with no proper adult conversations to be had. To me, your child situation seems quite strange also. Did you not ever try and get in a routine for the feeding and sleeping issues ? The way you are living is not good at all, with constant arguments, not to mention an unwashed Husband. It will depend on how much you are going to put up with all of this,as to what you can do about it.

LochJessMonster · 15/04/2020 14:42

Quite frankly from all your updates, stay with him and be miserable then. Because you don’t seem to be considering any other option.
Bring your daughter up in a miserable, cold household.
That’ll show the church...

FreckledLeopard · 15/04/2020 14:47

Fine. Don't listen to advice. Don't leave him. Be stuck with a filthy, smelly, abusive man for the rest of time and you can die happy that you've had a miserable relationship and life for decades. Will that please you? Do you actually think you're going to get some kind of reward for putting up with this shit? That God will pat you on the head and say 'well done'? All you're going to do is show your poor child that she should accept a miserable life and relationship, live dysfunctionally and put up with it, because that's what you're doing.

Will you be happy if your poor daughter ends up miserable with a husband who might beat her or rape her? Will you tell her she can't get a divorce either?

Take some responsibility for yourself, grow up, end your marriage and live the only life you get.

CatSmize · 15/04/2020 14:48

Is it me or is it weird that a 2-year old is still breastfeeding????

It's you! Wink The WHO recommend that babies are breastfed up to 2 years or beyond. Each to their own, of course, but it's not weird from a health perspective.

BigSandyBalls2015 · 15/04/2020 15:04

This is all so sad OP, I don't know where to start.

I would say I find the Catholicism part rather strange though - I was brought up a catholic and although very lapsed now, I don't remember any pastors, and certainly don't remember feeling I had to suffer in any way. It's not the catholic church I remember at all.

ElizabethMountbatten · 15/04/2020 15:08

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the request of the OP.

gamerchick · 15/04/2020 15:20

Is it me or is it weird that a 2-year old is still breastfeeding????

I did it until 3 1/2.

HalfTermHalfTerm · 15/04/2020 15:25

I am not religious and I have a fairly low tolerance of religion (for some of the reasons you have mentioned on here) so I won’t get in to a discussion about that as I struggle to understand.

But what I will say is that both you and your daughter deserve better than this, you really do. I also don’t think your husband sounds like he’s very happy either, but he is the one being obnoxious so I’m less concerned about him.

I would also be wary of your daughter’s sleeping habits, my partner’s daughter used to have to be held to go to sleep until she was 3 (properly cuddled on someone’s lap, not just with someone next to her) she’s now nearly 6 and has fairly significant issues surrounding sleeping. You say you’ll be happy co sleeping with a 9 year old but you might feel differently in a couple of years time!

Take care of yourself.

inappropriateraspberry · 15/04/2020 16:04

The breastfeeding is fine, still feeding to sleep is not. My son has just turned 2 and we've just taken the side off his cot so he can get into bed on his own! At 2 they are a toddler, not a baby and understand far more than they can communicate. Your daughter is still a light sleeper because you have allowed her to be. She hasn't got used to sleeping alone or simply self settling. It's a vital part of development. Are you going to 'baby' her when she's 5?
As to your husband, I'm sure he's encouraging the co-sleeping as it gives him an excuse not to do anything else, especially cleaning!
You need to tell him straight and let him know this is breaking point. Would it be easier to give him, say, 2 weeks to sort himself out and if no change you'll be leaving. There is no shame in wanting a better life for you or your daughter.
I agree that the church you go to sounds nothing like anything recognisable in the UK. Are you on another country, US maybe?

sammylady37 · 15/04/2020 16:22

Quite aside from the rest of this shit show, if you can’t afford a cleaner (as you say in the op) then you can’t afford a second child. That’s just one of many reasons you shouldn’t be having a second child.

Oh, and you say the house is small so he has to close the door when doing chores or otherwise your light-sleeping daughter will wake up? Be under no illusions then that she hears your arguments, even if you don’t argue in front of her, as you say.

Halestorm · 15/04/2020 16:27

I’m a bit confused why your Catholic Church has a pastor ?

Me too. The RCC doesn't have pastors. We have priests. And any priest who has a wife at her wits end from a stinky lazy husband wouldn't counsel her to just put up with it. Any priest I know would take the man aside and tell him to cop on.

Look, he doesn't care. He cares nothing about his stink, and nothing about your feelings. He cares nothing about cleaning up after he spills something because why would he? There are no consequences for him, after all. You won't separate, or divorce him, or even temporarily leave him or throw him out so from his point of view, why should he clean it up?

By the way, Catholics have always been able to get a legal separation and not be excommunicated or anything like that. In fact, many priests helped spouses obtain their legal separation or even encouraged a divorce in some cases with their parishioners.

The actual rule is that Catholics cannot remarry in the church while their former spouse still lives. They can still, obviously remarry in a legal ceremony, just not a RCC one. If you separate and don't take up with another man then you are still abiding by both God's and the RCC's teachings.

That's coming from someone who's upbringing was positively steeped in Catholicism with two very devout and observant parents.

rvby · 15/04/2020 17:09

@Douleur I think you must be in a fringe offshoot of the Catholic church? Are you "tradcath"?

In any event. I want you to know that I suffered in a marriage for the same reasons you do. I too was told that I was the model for Christ in the relationship and so on. I also came from a chaotic upbringing and clung to the church and to Jesus to try to feel safe in the world. It was the only port I had in the storm that was my life. I completely get where you are coming from. Really I do.

I think it's important to understand that if your husband is using his marriage as a place to habitually sin against another human being (you), by being apathetic, nasty and disrespectful of you, by being so dirty that you're unable to safely have sex with him without risking illness and infection... I'm really sorry, you are not being Christlike by staying in that situation.

You are really putting yourself into the punching bag situation where he is never going to recover from his sin and find a better path unless you remove yourself.

As a Christian you are exhorted not to entice your neighbour to sin. In this context, you're in a situation where by staying with him, trying to have more babies with him, ensuring he has no accountability for his actions, etc. etc. you are enticing him to sin. You are effectively making it as easy as possible for him to stay in the same sinful cycle, year in and year out.

By marrying him despite him literally needing to go to counselling not to be apathetic towards him.... I'm really sorry but you fucked up quite badly there. You entered into a marriage with someone whose dynamic with you was one of neglect and emotional violence. By staying in the marriage, you contribute to allowing neglect and emotional violence to continue.

Jesus would never in a million years have done that. He knew evil when he saw it. Remember the money lenders in the temple. He knew when to crack a whip and scream his head off, to cleanse revolting behaviour from his sight. He didn't stand for evil behaviour. You know that.

Jesus had courage to look evil in the face and refuse to allow it to continue. You can do that as well.

Don't use Jesus to hide from the truth and from what you need to do to protect your DD from growing up in this environment. You're taking his name in vain if you do that.

You've come from a chaotic and difficult upbringing and I understand why you are scared. All you want is peace and a happy family life, a place to lay your head. I so completely get where you are coming from. I can't even tell you how much. I just really beg you to think of your DD here. If you stay in this marriage, she will grow up and end up longing for the very same thing. I don't want that for her. Or you. xx

Anydreamwilldo12 · 15/04/2020 17:29

which Catholic church would have services to discuss intimate details of a couples sex life as standard? That is beyond normal.

He is an older man who is moulding you to be the wife he wants. I wouldn't be surprised if your 'Church' is all about the women being submissive to the husbands and everything is for the husbands benefit.

Apart from that he is extremely unhygienic and lazy. I wouldn't be letting my child sleep with a man who's nether regions are so disgustingly dirty you can smell it when he is near you.

I hope you can find the strength to look into some outside help, outside of your Church.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/04/2020 17:32

I wonder if there's a saint for personal hygiene?