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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Constant arguments about cleaning and his hygiene

182 replies

Douleur · 15/04/2020 08:04

DH and I have just had another one of our never ending arguments about cleaning.

The usual routine at night is that he walks DD to sleep and then one of us stays with her at night, she doesn’t sleep alone we have tried everything and are waiting until she is ready. Then whoever isn’t sleeping with her goes downstairs and cleans the kitchen and the living room. Last night she fell asleep on the boob earlier than usual. He had a bit of a strange reaction and he wanted me to move her into the room he normally sleeps in, I said I wasn’t risking waking her up he argued with me for a while so I said once she unlatched from me he could take over. She normally takes a few hours to finally unlatch and so he went downstairs to ‘clean’.

We have a really small house so closing doors is really important, when he left he didn’t close the door and I could hear crashing dishes, the front door being slammed so I text him repeatedly asking him to shut the door. He didn’t respond to any texts. He came back upstairs 30 minutes ago, I repeated that once she unlatches we can swap. I managed to wriggle free and we swapped places. I went downstairs and he hadn’t cleaned anything and had left dishes to do in the 90 minutes I had been with DD. He also spilt half a bottle of thyme by the microwave a week ago that I had asked him to clean up, I refuse to do it because he always does stuff like this and leaves it for me to clean like I am his maid. The thyme was still there. I texted him asking why he had left all that stuff for me to clean. He ignored me. I cleaned the kitchen and the living room and went to bed.

This morning I asked him why he couldn’t clean up the thyme and he just said that he’ll do it today. I kept saying that I had asked him to clean it when he split it and he just said that he would do it today and I was being unreasonable. He really believes that having to ask him multiple times to do something he has agreed to do is normal.

We also don't have very much and I have a rug that I desperately try to keep nice. When DD was smaller and I did all the nights with her for about two weeks everytime I came down in the morning the baby's playmat would be out, this was odd . I finally saw that he had spilt a glass of wine on my cream rug (bought pre-baby) and didn't bother to try to clean it, he just put the mat on it. When I asked him why he didn't say anything he just said that he forgot.

Cleaning has been a huge issue our relationship. He is supposed to clean the bathroom once a week and I do the three bedrooms and hallways every Saturday. For four months I had to beg him to clean the bathroom, I asked, I reminded, I suggested, I cried, I finally wrote out how to clean the bathroom in a step by step because he claimed not to know how to (he then lost the step by step). He still didn’t do it. After four months I did it and he stood in the hallway with DD who was calling for me and he taunted me saying ‘DD wants you, why are you ignoring her’.

I think his reasoning is that he does 90% of the dishes so that’s all he should do. He also has awful hygiene to the point where I recently thought he was holding a bin bag but it was just the stench coming from a certain part of his body (I'm trying to be delicate). He doesn't shower for weeks and smells so badly we can't have sex but he's not bothered. He just laughed in my face when I told him that smell was unacceptable and went through my phone (this is fine we both have access to each other's phones) to find messages I'd sent to friends asking for advice about his smell and read them out to me laughing. I don't think he particularly cares about having sex with me which doesn't make me feel great. We are also supposed to be ttc baby number 2 but since DD was born two years ago we've had sex five times. Before DD I used to take him to the shower and shower with him. We can’t afford a cleaner and we’re Catholic so no divorce but what can I do? I’ve just cried in my bedroom from the frustration.

OP posts:
doadeer · 15/04/2020 09:56

This is such a weird situation.

Has he always had bad body hygiene? And has he always been messy?

2 isn't really a baby, not sure why you would need to have her latched for hours - surely you aren't helping her learn the skills to sleep unaided - that's not helpful for you or her.

It sounds like your relationship is not in a good place... You have three choices: you can do nothing and carry on being miserable, you can have a talk with your partner and establish if you both want to invest in making it better or you can leave.

Gutterton · 15/04/2020 09:58

Wow your poor DD living in the deeps of this disgusting toxic soup.

She is absorbing and internalising all of this bitterness, resentment, anger, frustration and contempt. She must be very fearful, fractious and anxious. No wonder she can’t sleep.

I bet your DH never raises his voice to you - because he doesn’t need to as his deliberate constant childish resistance mode is enough to yank your chain and send you spinning into deep anger and frustration.

He loves watching you chase and nag. This is his dirty protest - but like a toddler - if you told him please don’t have a bath he probably would just to resist you. He is passive aggressive and you have fallen into the nag role.

What was his upbringing like? I suspect an engulfing / overbearing / controlling mother that he never ever stood up to - so he diverts that resentment to you instead.

YOU need to stop and drop the rope on this dynamic.

He doesn’t want to be a team. He doesn’t want to parent together.

YOUR boundaries are shocking. What was your childhood like? Why do you keep going on and on - did you never learn know when a situation was toxic and give yourself permission to leave?

This is all v harmful for your DD. Sounds like she already has emotional injuries from this dynamic and these will likely become behavioural issues and then chronic MH issues as an adult.

You need to emotionally detach and distance yourself from the frustration and raging nag role that he has cast you in. Withdraw change the dynamic. Plot your way out of this.

YOU are hurting your DD more with your seething bitterness and anger than he is with the spilt thyme and smelly dick.

Don’t do this to her anymore.

AvoidingRealHumans · 15/04/2020 09:59

It all sounds like a shambles. Your baby / child is running the show and you both use the cover of waiting for her to want to sleep independently and having to be with her constantly so that you can avoid each other.

The house work needs to be a team effort but that doesn't mean you get to be army major and demand that he does things and text non stop when you aren't getting it done your way.

I think you need to calm down a bit and become more relaxed. I think that him being unhygienic and not doing anything in the home is him rebelling against you and your routines that you are so passionate about.
I'm not surprised you don't want to sleep with him but if you took a step back and became more relaxed about everything I think he might come round and hopefully be a bit more helpful.
This doesn't sound like a healthy relationship and life is short so if you can't see a way round this and not willing to alter your routine to change things then you need to leave.

Mammyloveswine · 15/04/2020 09:59

This thread is ridiculous!

Please OP your 2 year old needs to learn to sleep alone, the reason she won't is because she has got into the habit of one of you being there. You do not need to leave her to cry, there are lots of gentle sleep methods.

As for your husbands manky penis, does he work? Such a compete lack of hygiene is absolutely disgusting! I am appalled!

Also was your bathroom not cleaned for FOUR months?? I'm no Mrs Hinch but a bit of flash spray and a quick wipe around should just happen automatically!

Fwiw my DH and I just take it in turns to clean based on whatever needs doing and who just happens to be in the room/house! I'm much more thorough but DH can do a decent enough job that it's at least basically clean and tidy!

You sound very unhappy and resigned to this life which is very sad. How old are you both?

Douleur · 15/04/2020 09:59

I suggested a bath with DD and he said he was too dirty to get in with her, so he knows it's bad. I've even asked our pastor to speak to him (I'm not sure how to describe the church we attend but this is a perfectly normal request, we all get marital counselling and it can get quite intimate. So sex, cheating etc.) and he won't go.

We can't separate or divorce. I just keep getting told to pray for him. He doesn't pray for me, he doesn't care about me but I am supposed to be the model of Christ because I'm the wife. It just feels so unfair. I'm not asking for much, am I? He bought me a gift for our anniversary and it was at least three times what we would spend even if he hadn't been furloughed. If he had cleaned a room I would have preferred that to a gift.

OP posts:
AmelieTaylor · 15/04/2020 10:01

Religion. If your religion is punishing you, not helping you - do you think that's coming from man or God?

Nearlyalmost50 · 15/04/2020 10:01

If he smells that bad, soon your daughter is going to notice. And not be able to bring friends home when she's older.

Sorry, but I think you have to take responsibility for having made a poor choice of dad here, you say he's a good dad but honestly, good dads don't smell minging and not wash for weeks, that's unpleasant for you but also for her.

You need to stop trying to live the fantasy marriage, where he's great, attractive, have another baby and it's all happy ever after and look at the real one and think whether you can really ask yourself or your child to live permanently with this.

I know I couldn't and you could get a separation.

limpbizkit · 15/04/2020 10:03

But your DH is not a mind reader!!!!! You're praying for him and talking to the pastor (he can't hear it) you're texting your mates about him (instead of telling him) you communicate via text on your home. Have you ever talked directly?? You seem to have a problem asserting and expressing yourself.

Gutterton · 15/04/2020 10:04

I also think that you have subconsciously created your DD’s sleep “issues” so that you can sleep apart. It suits you. Don’t blame you.

Crackerscheesescabbyknees · 15/04/2020 10:05

You need to leave him.
Your religion will forgive you. They're big on forgiveness. Plenty of divorced Catholics still go to church.

The thing is you can do this now, leave him, deal with the back lash and move on with your life to find someone that loves and respects you or you can do it when you're in your 50's. The difference is how much time you get to be hapoy.

LEAVE HIM. Be happy.
Don't raise your baby in this environment.

VettiyaIruken · 15/04/2020 10:07

Do you live in a country where women are not allowed to leave their marriage?

Douleur · 15/04/2020 10:14

I cleaned the bathroom during the four months just at night.

My DD is wonderfully attached, happy and loved. Many two, three and four year olds bed share with their parents. I'm not English (DH is) so perhaps bed sharing is a cultural difference here.

I think I'm going to have to detach emotionally but I get so wound up. His mother was overbearing, my mother was physically abusive. I don't know if that sheds a light on anything. He is early 40s and I am late 20s. We are generally happy but cleaning is our sticking point. I do want to sleep with him and I'm not trying to avoid him. DD can sleep four about four hours alone once unlatched. He doesnt feel she is ready to sleep alone so even if I suggest a film together he wants to sit with her. I don't mind this as it's lovely to see his love for her. I'm not asking him to clean every day. He does five nights of the week with her because she sleeps better with him, if I'm there she will hunt for my boobs. It's better if he bed shares with her because she does sleep better. You can't smell him with clothes on, only when he is naked.

OP posts:
MehitabelWhurl · 15/04/2020 10:15

Prayers?! 🙄

Yeah I hear god is very hot on encouraging dirty skanky men to wash their knobs. That’s why he took his eye off the ball and allowed Coronavirus to kill so many people. He’s up to his neck in sweaty bellends.

SueEllenMishke · 15/04/2020 10:18

He sounds disgusting and he either needs to address this or you leave. However, your child is two not a newborn. Both of your lives would be much easier if you both addressed your routine as it does seem very OTT. A two year old shouldn't need to be latched for hours and should be able to sleep alone.

Mammyloveswine · 15/04/2020 10:19

@Douleur you don't sound happy! He doesn't need to just sit with your daughter when she is asleep!

If he isn't showering for weeks then he will smell with clothes on, you are probably just used to it now!

Does he clean his teeth? I would not want my child sharing a bed with someone so unhygienic and disgusting!

Op I'm not against bed sharing but when it's impacting on your marriage then I think it needs addressing.

Douleur · 15/04/2020 10:21

Sorry, trying to keep up with response. We live in England so no legal problems with separating but I've seen abused and trafficked women and this isn't that bad. I just equate a clean home to a happy one. My mother is a hoarder, he has seen this. He has banned us all from visiting. I've talked to him until I've cried, he won't listen to me or meet me halfway so I thought a person in authority might help. He has spoken to other men about their issues in their relationships. It's a normal thing to do in our church, it's seen as offering wisdom to people in church. So, I've spoken to women about how we faced infertility and he's spoken to men who have struggled with the transition to fatherhood.

OP posts:
Mammyloveswine · 15/04/2020 10:23

He sounds like a disgusting controlling prick... you are too young to waste years on this minger.

Gutterton · 15/04/2020 10:24

Withdraw and observe. Emotionally detach from him in your head and your heart. Step back and step up to look over the toxic dynamic. Understand how you are triggered in to rage and controlling behaviours. Notice how your emotional state is inside because this is being transmitted to your DD each and every second.

Put her needs first.

YOU should be aiming to create a calm and peaceful home with love, kindness and respect to nourish her in. When a plant is failing you fix it by tending the soil it is growing in. What’s your contribution to creating this calm and peaceful home - where is your kindness and respect - if you need to change your behaviours and mood - do so - if he doesn’t share the same values as you to be kind and respectful then he can’t create the calm and peaceful home and the future for your DD - and she deserves this. In fact she is 2 years in deficit that needs making up.

Sounds like he has massive childhood issues that are playing out right now - it will take him years in therapy to address them - if he ever went and properly engaged. But in the interim the casualty is your DD. You need to decide if you are going to sacrifice her to the inter generational dysfunction - or intervene.

BackseatCookers · 15/04/2020 10:27

I've talked to him until I've cried, he won't listen to me or meet me halfway so I thought a person in authority might help.

Do you think that someone who has so little respect for you is a good husband?

I'm not religious but surely his attitude is incredibly unchristian? I'm assuming your christian due to having a pastor etc.

So you're ok with him not being a godly man, but you're meant to hold up your end of the bargain.

This relationship as a whole sounds anxious, tense and toxic.

You would both be incredibly selfish to being another child into this dynamic, would you?

Candyfloss99 · 15/04/2020 10:29

You can't have another baby when you are treating your 2 year old like a baby. You really need to get a sleep routine and let her sleep on her own, you are doing her no favours here.

Aloe6 · 15/04/2020 10:32

Are you completely unwilling to leave him for yourself and your own self worth?

If that doesn’t motivate you, please leave for your DD’s sake. You are modelling to her that this is a normal relationship. It isn’t normal or healthy. She will go on to expect and accept treatment like this from men she ends up in a relationship with.

Nearlyalmost50 · 15/04/2020 10:37

Sorry- did I get that right, he won't let you visit your mother? She's a hoarder, so what? You can still visit her without him.

He won't let you do anything it seems, you are in an abusive relationship to my eyes, as he is using religion (and the other people in your church are) to shut you down, stop you asking for anything, stop you seeing others. He's created a religious bubble with a 20 years younger compliant female in which you are too scared to disobey him.

All this appealing to the religious authorities is pointless. They are not invested in making him be different. He is not invested in being different.

If this was my 20 something year old daughter, I would weep for her.

You seem to believe if you just try hard, and be nice to the pastors or whoever, then your marriage will fix. You don't have sex, he stinks and won't wash and he controls where you go and spends every night alone with your dd and not with you.

This is NOT a life for a 20 something year old. Don't have another baby (even though this is what you are being valued for in this situation) and please please do try to talk with someone outside of the situation,. You are very trapped and this is not normal.

SueEllenMishke · 15/04/2020 10:41

He knows you won't leave him so in his head he'll be thinking why should be bother changing?
The problem with many organised religions, Catholicism as a prime example, is that they are deeply misogynistic.
I divorced my Catholic ex primarily due to this as it impacted on our lives in many ways.

Thefaceofboe · 15/04/2020 10:42

That sounds like a ridiculous situation from the start.

Gutterton · 15/04/2020 10:44

My DD is wonderfully attached, happy and loved.

Your DD is exposed to domestic abuse. She sees, hears and senses the crying, nagging, frustration, mocking and tension between you. NSPCC define child abuse as a child being exposed to domestic abuse. Your bar is way to low - trafficked women?

This is a toxic relationship for a child. She sounds engulfed by the inept and uncooperative parenting which looks to be a compensation and mask for the bitterness and contempt playing out between you.

But she is absorbing and internalising it. YOU need to change this dynamic because it’s crystal clear you are unable to influence him.

And he is not a good Dad. A good Dad is more than a toxic honking teddy bear. A good Dad’s first priority is being a good husband, being a supportive member of the parenting team, working together with kindness and respect for with the mother of his child. This applies both ways. Neither of you are doing this.