Older men are sad pervs?

[Emerald46]

I've read the entire 'Age Gap' thread on here and just feel depressed! Why do men, often in their late forties/early fifties decide now is the time in their life to get together with a much younger woman and is it wrong?

I 'feel' it's wrong but some of the people I've discussed it with have a very ' oh women just like older men' view. I know the reasons why this happens - patriarchy, us all being fed a diet of sexism on films over years and years of attractive older men being flirted with by much younger, scantily clad women etc etc. I know in the bad old days, women weren't encouraged to aspire for a career or financial independence as much as today so older men seemed a safer bet security-wise but....surely that's all in the past now??

I did online dating about six years ago and on match.com and 'my single friend' the men almost always specified 'acceptable' age range for the women they would date to be from much younger - say 20-odd years - up to (if we are lucky) their own age. I didn't join those sites but when I got chatting to men on POF, the men often said things like, "Well women are just as bad, I got a message from a woman in her 60s!!!"....this would be from a man in his 50s. So, he wouldn't consider chatting to a woman10 years younger either then because a ten year gap would be ridiculous? " Oh yes, but women tend to like older men" was the stock reply. It just irritated me so much.

But am I wrong to think this is misogynistic/sexist/sad/pathetic?

I don't think all couples should be aged within a few years of each other. I just find it sad that so many men seem to specifically look for much younger women but never older women. And why do young women date these men?

I'm not bitter - I'm in a happy, long-term (I hope!) relationship with a lovely man (one year younger than me) but I'm curious. And a bit despondent about the male species tonight...

@AnnaNimmity Abuse arises from a power imbalance not from an age gap. Being significantly younger doesn’t prevent someone from being financially powerful, physically stronger or, more manipulative. Likewise being older doesn’t prevent someone from being emotionally vulnerable.

I think it’s fair to say that you can see certain trends in terms of things like people increasing their earning potential as they get older which can have a bearing on potential for abuse or the kinds of people that enter into relationships with large age gaps. But to say that an age gap alone is a red flag suggests a fundamental failure to understand why abuse happens. It’s more of a red flag when someone exhibits a pattern of dating people who earn significantly less, are young/old enough to be considerably more likely to be susceptible to abuse, have mental health problems, you get the idea. Red flags are attached to people rather than relationships.

Regina, age gap is a red flag for a power imbalance and a red flag of the desire and possibility of an abusive person to control another person. This is because it may be easier for an older person to get control over a younger person. It's a red flag, not a definite in any age gap relationship.

Lundy Bancroft is very clear on this and it fits my experience of age gap relationships. But I didn't say it exists in every or even most age gap relationships. It's red flag that's all.

(and I am very aware that it's possible to be abused in any relationship).

Can you please evidence how you have come to the conclusion that there is a higher likelihood of power imbalances? Or is that just from a bit of anecdotal evidence?

Are you really suggesting you need evidence as to why there’s a higher likelihood of power imbalances with a massive age gap? Come ON.

It’s not based on anecdote at all. I don’t know anyone in an age gap relationship. I don’t think it’s rocket science to want to consider the differences between a much younger party and a much older one and express concern as to the possibility of coercion.

Wolfgirrl

I would examine why you’re feeling so defensive. It’s all a bit “not my Nigel”

@AnnaMinity all relationships have the potential for abuse because all relationships will have multiple power imbalances in them (usually both parties will be more powerful in some respects while weaker in others). If we attached red flags to a potential abuse then literally every relationship would raise red flags. Instead red flags should be used to signpost indicators that abuse is likely rather than merely possible and abuse is only really like when one party is an abuser (hence looking for behaviour patterns where repeated relationships targeting a specific age group or with large gaps likely to result in financial power imbalances is useful).

I appreciate what you are saying but you are taking the wrong approach. Abuse is something that arises when an abuser finds a victim. It doesn’t really matter which circumstances that happens under. Relationships and inevitable power imbalance within those relationships are not an effective method of red flagging. Instead we should be flagging people who are likely to be abusers and victims.

@MarieQueenofScots

Are you really suggesting you need evidence as to why there’s a higher likelihood of power imbalances with a massive age gap? Come ON.

A simple no wouldve been quicker.

So would you also assume that any relationship where one earns more than another has a power imbalance?

Would you assume that any relationship where one is more educated than the other has a power imbalance?

Are you going to say people should stick within their own salary range and level of education when looking for a partner?

oh, Lundy Bancroft is wrong?

There are many red flags for an abusive relationship. At the end of the day it's a relationship where the abuser seeks to control the abused. It's all about sexual control. And it's about the abuser not the abused. There are many red flags for an abusive relationships, I do believe someone age gaps is can be seen one. But I can also agree that it isn't a key one, or even a particularly red red flag. It would be something I would be concerned about if my daughter came home with an older man. But I'd also be concerned about other factors arising from the age difference.

The abuser will always be abusive, and will find someone to be abusive to. I was in an extremely abusive relationship with someone my age. it was horrendous. Before me, his victim was more than 25 years his junior. Since me, he has been in another abusive relationship. The only constant is him. We (his victims) are all very different people. All with different backgrounds. The red flags that are the same from each of the relationships are down to him.

I don’t assume every age gap relationship has a power balance - are you reading my posts?

So would you also assume that any relationship where one earns more than another has a power imbalance?

Power balance? Not necessarily. Financial imbalance? Sure.

Would you assume that any relationship where one is more educated than the other has a power imbalance?

That depends. Again not always but then that wasn’t what I said in the first place.

As an aside I’m on the thread, would you mind not tagging me - despite having notifications turned off I still get them. Thanks

So are older women in relationships “pervs” as you so eloquently put it??

@AnnaNimmity I haven’t read Lundy Bancroft, but to be perfectly honest with you I wouldn’t be surprised if he were, his reputation as an intellectual isn’t exactly good. If the approach you are taking us the same approach as his then his approach isn’t the best. I’m categorically not saying that this approach is wrong, the opposite actually. It is right. It’s just not efficient.

It’s like using large but not massive waves as an alert for tsunamis. It’s not wrong. When you see big waves they may indicate seismic activity which may indicate future seismic activity that will be significant enough to produce a tsunami. But it would be better to just use a seismometer. The approach isn’t wrong, it’s just not very good.

Not every older man earns more than a younger woman

Research has been done and it showed power imbalances were no more likely ... in established relationships. Older men hitting on very young women (say under 30) is a different thing.

Many, many older men, not all, but many, are just base animals, to be honest, in that lust at the heart of it will drive them. A young, slim, smooth-skinned beautiful woman, or an aging one? It's not pc and they won't admit it it but it's factually true.

Actually most of them are happy to admit it. It's just women largely don't want to hear it.

Because men are base animals at the heart of it. There are obviously decent men out there who see young women ad the children they are relative to their age and I doesn't turn them on at all. But they are in the minority, as facts, cheating tales, men's forums, etc she time and time and time again.

It's not an either/or thing. Being turned on by younger women and being able to initiate and sustain a relationship with a woman your own age are not mutually exclusive. People just have different priorities about what's important to them, and priorities change too at different times in one's life. I wouldn't say of those in the latter category that it "doesn't turn them on at all". In most cases it probably still turns them on, there are just other things that are more important to them (though these are obviously all generalisations and there is a huge variety in what turns people on).

I really can't get on board with all this "men are perves" idea. If what you mean is that men are driven by looks, then to counter that, women only date men they fancy too. It's reductive to both men and women to assume that only men are attracted to good looks. It works both ways.
And yes some women over 40 are beautiful and fit, and some women in their 20s are not as much. The majority of older men that tend to message me online are, to be kind, are not attractive to me. Just as many younger men are not.

I don't aim to date men of a certain age group
I don't find it an attractive quality to date a man I can control. I actually like a man with intelligence, sharp wit , energy, and strength of character who doesn't just give in to what I want. I like balance. But I do think there are some men that are attracted to women they can control. Abusive controlling men know what to look for. I used to be someone who attracted them, I learned to have boundaries, and can now spot them. Those men can be either very young, or over 45 and insulting to their ex.

And I have been called a perve when I've dated a younger man, or even fancied one. But only by women. Men are never that bothered. Odd isn't it

My husband is 17 years older than me. I do think sometimes older men certainly can prey on younger women and it can be creepy... but I know full well men my own age can be just as abusive and creepy as that... toucan predict whether someone is an abuser based on their age... and sometimes people with big age gaps just fall in love... so I'm certainly not against age gap relationships just for the sake of it. I would warn young women to look out for all red flags but not to necessarily write someone off just because they are older... it's about pattern of behaviour. Some older guys routinely seek out younger women and I do think that is a very bad sign.

Inexperience, which almost always goes hand in hand with (lack of) age can definitely cause a power imbalance.

There are men i was involved with when younger who set up a dynamic as normal ..
I felt uncomfortable but questioned myself and took.a whole to get out .... Older I would not have questioned myself, would have recognised the behaviour as off/wrong and gotten out (or not gotten in). People know this about young/er partners and potential partners. There is no replacement for experience - the type of experience that makes you think "yeah mate, I've heard/seen this before, and I know what the story is here, byee".

*While

Many of us have been in relationships with older partners where we realised afterwards, with she and experience that they were exploitative/off.

I think Thandie Newton has described such a relationship.

Yes, it can happen with someone the same age, bit ime it's more likely to happen with someone older (ergo usually more experienced).

I think it entirely depends on the man. Some men do want a woman with a personality that they get on with and can admire a woman's beauty. Then there are other men who objectify women and think they are entitled to sexual relations only. The best thing to do is if anyone is showing any red flags and warning signs stay away from them. That way they can't behave inappropriately.

I have a theory that the age of women that men tend to find most attractive is about 20. For women, they tend to find men in the late 20s most attractive. We're just talking on average here. So once a woman reaches about 30, she stops looking for older men.

@Whereismycatnow I had my daughter at the age of 22. In the future, if she was to date a man MY AGE. No, of course I would not be happy!

I do think large age gaps relationships have an unusual dynamic.

My bf is 15.5 years younger than me. Best, most equal, relationship I've ever had.

We're disgustingly happy.

My husband is 19 years older than me. I’ve always preferred older men. No power imbalance at all. We treat each other as equals. It really annoys me when people say that men just want to control younger women. It’s complete bollocks

Oh fuck off with your man-bashing!