OW/Emotional Affair - Please help me

[Cupcakesaregood]

Hi everyone. First of all I'm sorry if I ramble, this is my first thread and I don't know what to do. H and I have been married 4 years in July. Found out I was pregnant a year after marriage, not planned but happy enough. Hard pregnancy. Found out that H had been having an emotional affair shortly before birth because I saw a WhatsApp message appear on his phone that I didn't recognise late at night so yes, I looked to discover hundreds of messages. I said to him in anger if he didn't stop I'd never let him see our child. He took the phone from my hands and blocked the number.

Things have been rocky ever since, when I go on WhatsApp I wonder why he's online and not speaking to me etc. Shortly after our 1 year olds birthday I couldn't get the idea of having another baby out of my head. I know probably not the wisest but always envisioned two. And now I'm pregnant. I was H phone the other night trying to find a code a friend sent to him in a message and I couldn't help myself, I looked through his messages from people to see if she was there. She wasn't. And then something told me to check the contacts. He doesn't have loads of people and then I saw her (her WhatsApp photo still the same from 2017 when I caught them that night) and she was under a different name. What do I do? Please help me. I haven't mentioned it to him yet - but why on earth is her number in there if it is over? Thanks for any advice x

Oh OP, you sound so upset and I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I completely understand the 'round in circles' type questioning because you feel so anxious.

I've been in a similar situation to you and can only share what I've learnt from it. I think that some people can be happy in their marriages and have affairs on the side. It's unacceptable, but I think that it might help you to accept that you will never get answers to your questions that will satisfy you because he has a completely different moral compass to yours and you'll never be able to understand him. You can ask yourself, us and him why he has her number again and again and what this means about his feelings towards you, but you'll never get an answer that gives you closure.

I know it feels like the answers to these questions matter terribly at the moment, but you're still putting all your focus on how HE feels, what HE wants, who HE loves. What about how you feel and what you want? One thing I think you need to be clear on is that this is who he is. He may have some qualities that make him appealing to you, but ultimately he isn't faithful. And he's not going to start being faithful, so please don't base any decisions on a hope that he might change. He's had lots of time for that.

The other thing I have learnt is that trying to control the situation by trying to control his actions (monitoring messages etc) won't change him or prevent infidelity. What it will do is create a toxic environment for both of you and cause you terrible stress as you try pointlessly to change him. It's impossible. Deep down he believes that he's entitled to have his cake and eat it, and there's nothing you can do to change him into a good man.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that whatever you decide, go into it with your eyes wide open. He is a cheat, and he always will be. And please don't waste your energy and sanity trying to change him, or understand him, because it can't be done. Sorry to be blunt, I really am saying this with kindness.

@shreddednips thank you for your kind words and I'm sorry you've been through something similar. This part of the process has made me realise a couple of things. We haven't been in a good place for a few years. We were only married just over a year when I found the messages the first time. The words, everything he said to her he's never said to me. He doesn't speak to me the way he speaks to her. He's more open, emotional, vulnerable. I see nothing of that at home. If anything it's lip service and going through the motions. Yes I have been controlling. I barely let him out of site and I suggested having another baby because I thought it would fix things. He is a great dad I'm never going to fault his parenting. I was making his life miserable until he gave in to the second baby option. I knew what I was doing. Do I think he's with me out of fear? Maybe. It's definitely not love. As for the number? To me it's not just digits on a phone it's an actual person. Her. And he may not be speaking to her right now but probably because he might lose her, not because he is happy with me because thanks to a lot of people on here I'm coming to terms with the fact that if he wanted to make it work with me she wouldn't be in his phone any longer

@SandyY2K thank you. Something that you said really struck a chord with me. I think deep down I know it is out of fear. He thinks I will take our son away and I think he felt I'd still do that if we didn't have another baby and that is the reason I'm realising he went through with this pregnancy

I wouldn't read too much into the tone of his messages to her other than that he's a tool. He's talking to her in the intense, emotionally loaded way that people do at the beginning of a relationship. I think when people have affairs, this intense period can be prolonged because of the forbidden nature of it and the fact that the relationship doesn't progress beyond the initial 'excitement' stage.

Try not to be too hard on yourself. The vulnerability you feel when you combine a betrayal like this with pregnancy is horrendous, and nobody forced him to have another baby. But I think it's good that you understand that continuing to try and control him isn't healthy, I'm thinking of you most of all when I say that. Anyway, it won't work.

I think if you can, it's a good idea to spend some time thinking about what type of future YOU want. It sounds to me like you've spent so much time and energy trying to figure him out that you've taken the focus off looking after yourself and working out what makes you happy.

Thank you @shreddednips

Ultimately it's not good that he's with you out of fear though....because it will only make him more resentful towards you.

He was having an affair after one year of marriage, which really begs the question did he want to be married at all.

I didn't realise you pushed him so hard on the second baby to the point of making his life miserable. Sometimes we are so focused on our personal feelings, but how would you feel if your son was in such a marriage in years to come?

You say he's a good father, so even if you split he would still be a good dad and you using your son as a pawn is ultimately harming your son, who could also become resentful of you in the end. Don't ruin their relationship, because he doesn't want to be with you.

Work towards amicable coparenting, which is in the best interests of your children.

Think back on your whole relationship and reflect on your actions. Who has been more enthusiastic about progressing the relationship...were your feelings for each other ever really balanced or was it more you into him.

What I see now, is him in fear and you in fear of him leaving, so you keep him under watch with no room to breath.

I remember a BH (betrayed husband) once said, he "wants a wife, not a prisoner"

He didn't want to have to police his wife's emails, he didn't want to ask for proof of where she was...it was tiresome, a job on top of his day job. He did for a few years after she cheated, then said he'd had enough of feeling like a Jailer. As it happens they are very happy and the trust returned.

Ditto
The more you try to control him, the further he will resent you.
You resent him for having affair (quite right )
He resents you for controlling him
No win situation!
It’s not healthy to live in a house with some much animosity and resentment
The time & energy your using on the what if’s
Is depleting your energy and thinking and is exhausting.

Nobody wants to be cheated on in a marriage, but they always happen for a reason???
You say your not getting on and haven’t for a couple of years, that is a long time.
Your in early 30’s, your not happy.

Question you need to ask yourself
Can you put up with things as they are for the next 2/5/7 years???
It’s not suddenly going to change because a new baby is in the way, if anything it’s more
Stress,pressure,resentment
I think you need to have a strong look at your life back/future and think can you honestly live your live like this.
This is 100% about you & your children
Not HIM

Morning @granadagirl . Yes I do have some thinking to do. I even posted on social media this morning happy pictures from the weekend. Just to prove to everyonelse we are great..you're right it's not healthy at all

With further updates it reminded me of a couple I knew.
When asked why he 'left' after their 4th baby arrived he said
' I wanted to have one week day evening out with the mates at the pub - and dw said NO , so I left '

I'm sure there was more to it , but for him it was the final straw.

He's on his third marriage now and seems very happy.

I know she remarried - and as of 10 years ago 'was not happy'

Your happiness is your responsibility- not anyone else's.

If someone tied me to the house I'd also be gone. ( you only have to read how the lock down is effecting people )

Control will kill any relationship dead.

Controlling can be unlearned but most people need a good therapist to get through it.

It doesn't make you a bad person, just makes your path more difficult.

Were one or both your parents controlling ?

You need to stop posting crap on Facebook OP. Who have you got something to prove to? Yes it’s unhealthy, all of this is, but you’re in a shitty situating that anyone would struggle to deal with.

I don’t believe my DH has ever cheated but we’ve had problems and there have been times when I’ve wrestled with the idea of leaving and it’s really tough. Like you, I’ve felt that I’ve been with him so long etc, that leaving has always felt like a mountain I can’t climb, so I do get that.

You really need to talk to him as all we can do is speculate what’s going on from you c emotional posts (that’s not a criticism but I just mean there’s no objectivity). We can guess but we don’t really know.

Keep posting though if it’s helping.

@Robin233 I've always been the wear the trousers..it's always been an 'in joke' amongst friends but I know the underlying tone, him being. Under the thumb etc. Yes I have always been on the controlling side but it got worse after I found those messages that night. I don't think our marriage is going to get better at all but I did think maybe having another would help. I have had a niggle since 2017 that she was in his life in some way and then when I saw her in his contacts that has shown me he doesn't want to let her go. Whether he's being silent with her or not. I do watch him on WhatsApp and I put him on a curfew. I know it's not healthy

Would you go to counselling OP? Would he? I don’t know if this would help as maybe he’s checked out but he clearly hasn't left and he’s decided to have a baby with you. What he’s doing is wrong but your behaviour isn’t great either and maybe counselling would help.

Hi @BunnytheBee well that's another thing. Yes it takes two to have a baby. But this even came up in front of our friends. Someone asked if we were having another (before I became pregnant) and he confided in one of his friends and said 'well it wouldn't be my decision would it' - it never massively clicked at the time but now all these things are making sense to me

What is it telling you though OP? Because if you are so controlling then maybe he felt you were controlling him with regards to having a baby too? So maybe not so much that he didn’t want one because he has checked out but just that he just feel he does a lot that you want. I’m not making any excuses for him by the way just trying to understand which is what you are trying to do.

How do you control him? How do you make him turn off his phone, stop him from going out etc? Does he just not do it because you ask him? How did you get him to have another baby?

I've always been the wear the trousers..it's always been an 'in joke' amongst friends but I know the underlying tone, him being. Under the thumb etc.

I think you must learn to accept that you cannot control his feelings. It very much looks like you can control, whether he stays with you, but not his emotions. You need to let that idea go.

So, you can either live with him and accept that he may have clandestine feelings for another person and trust him that he won't act on them (which may be a gamble but is sure better for both of you and is probably the only chance to save this marriage at all).

Or you kick him to the curb, because you cannot trust him and cannot bear the idea he might have feelings for somebody else.

You need to let go of your need to control or it will ruin your life and his. And tell him, he will always be able to have a relationship with his children, explicitly remove this mechanism of control over him.

As Khalil Gibran famously said:

If you love somebody, let them go, for if they return, they were always yours. And if they don't, they never were.

@BunnytheBee we had a hard first pregnancy. The shock of finding out so late then discovering his EA. we had arguement after arguement when he was born (which I know is normal to a point when there's a newborn) he walked out but said he can't leave him. I said we had to make things work for the sake of our son and I know he wants what's best for him too. But I kept saying how a lot of our friends had two under two/under three and maybe we should. He was reluctant, and I just kept pushing, bringing up that our son should have a sibling etc. I know I keep going back to her but it's my point, if he was happy with any of this, she'd be gone and his heart would be in this marriage. But it's not. He's here for his son and now we are going to have another. To me, it would be so easy just to move forward, get rid of that number, get rid of that tie he clearly has to her and focus on our marriage if that's what he actually wanted. But instead that number is in his phone

@deepwatersolo thank you for your words. So what now? He obviously has to block and delete her number? But I feel like he should want to do that for this to work?

@BunnytheBee I think he just went along with it because I think he felt that I'd take our son away if he didn't give me what I ultimately wanted

@Cupcakesaregood I have been reading this thread for a little while now and after reading your comment where you said "you put him on a curfew" and "if he was happy with any of this, she'd be gone and his heart would be in this marriage" which really struck a cord.

I am not condoning his behaviour in any way shape or form, but after all that you have shared with us, I actually feel sorry somewhat for him. The way you are trying to control him is unacceptable and I don't think anyone, even you, if rolls were reversed would be happy with your actions.

I know you say you're an anxious person so end up asking the same questions over and over, but as someone with anxiety myself and who has been in situations, albeit different in the past, where I have asked the same questions over and over, I now realise through self learning and counselling that I did it when I was trying to project my own insecurities on to others and stop myself feeling shame for my own actions.

I also don't think that him blocking and deleting her number will do anything for your relationship until you do some soul searching and find out exactly what it is that is deep-rooted in you that makes you feel the need to control him and all that he does.

Don't blame yourself or think you've done anything wrong OP. He chose to have an emotional affair etc and he's chosen to go behind your back and add her again, knowing it's something he agreed he wouldn't have happening when he blocked her in front of you. He's pretending he still has her blocked- and that's effectively lying.

One of the messages I do remember from my discovery in 2017 was the following

Her: you say you are there because you don't want your kids to come from a broken home like you did and I understand, but what if your wife wants another baby at some point?

H: well believe me it wouldn't be up to me. You don't understand what it's like

Her: well just to be clear, if you have another then I'm gone. I'm not sticking around for that

H - I had no idea that would make you leave. It's not what you think

The words might be slightly different but that's what I remember. It's not like he's been having cake and eating it, it's not been happy here. It's just been a happy atmosphere for our son and I thought another would fix it and have her gone for good

@PaulFrank6 I know. It's not a happy place

I think it's time to work on yourself. Why are you so controlling? I mean before the affair even.

I'll tell you what I've heard from MM in affairs. The OW treats them special, values them, respects them, let's them be a man and doesn't emasculate them.

What was your parents relationship like?

You have to realise you can't make someone love you. I'm sorry, but the more you say, you seem to be dare I say abusive towards him.

He probably feels suffocated with you at the moment in lockdown. Is that how you want your husband to feel?
And do you really even love him, or just don't want the marriage to end.

I can tell you that many couples are evaluating their marriage during lockdown and the fear of being stuck in with someone they don't love again in the future, has spurred them on to work towards ending it after lockdown.

Cheating so early in marriage isn't terribly common. He cheated before the stress of a baby and the opportunity of being bored in a long term marriage came along....that just shows you, you have no future of happiness with him.

To deny him seeing his child in the future would be so cruel...especially considering that's the only reason he's still with you.

I have to say when I hear OWs say their MMs wife is pregnant, but she forced him to have another baby...I just told them it was a load of nonsense and they were foolish to believe it. Now I realise it could actually be true.

Both of you need individual counselling and you really need to not use your kids as a weapon. They aren't possessions and it's just damaging.

So what now? He obviously has to block and delete her number?

No. That would not change his feelings, whatever they are. In your shoes (and if I didn't decide to end it myself and kick him out) I would tell him that I feel he is still emotionally detached from me, for which him still having her number is one sign, and I am tired of trying to change what I cannot change. I'd tell him that I will not deny him access to his children if he goes, and if he wants to go, he should please go now. I won't be the obstacle. And if he decides to stay, he needs to own his decision, and act accordingly. For nothing is more ridiculous than the 'ah I love you, but we can't be together' act, when the only obstacle is his own decision.

Just think of trying to hold sand in your hand. The more you try and press your fist together, the more it runs through your fingers. Loosen the grip. No matter what might happen. It will be better than what you have now.

@deepwatersolo @SandyY2K do you think that's why he holds onto her? Because she gives him some sort of happiness that he isn't getting here? The arguement we had that night he said fine I will just bury my feelings for her