Have you had an affair and how did you get over AP

[bloomingdalelovely]

Just that really - looking for input/comments from people who have been in this position.

I know ive tried to say that to her, that when lockdown over we would be back at work and daughter at school so we wouldn’t be on top of each other all day, weekends my daughter does activities so we would get a bit of time then and holidays (we are both teachers) we could get time together as my parents are more than happy to give me a break and look after my daughter for a week if I need it, plus holidays not in lockdown would be very different as we could all get out and do stuff apart if needed

To the delusional people on here saying that anyone who is suicidal because of an affair because they have deep rooted mental health problems, how dare you.
I was gaslighted, lied to, cheated on, twisted, headfucked for a long time. I offered him an out constantly when he behaved terribly, but no, he told me I was mad, I had mental health problems, I was paranoid etc etc.
My mental health was just fine until he decided to 'find comfort' through his midlife crisis in someone elses arms.
What they did destroyed many people lives.
I was utterly bereft, it was like he'd died. The pain and grief I felt and still feel is indescribable. So, you carry on and justify your vile, life destroying behaviour by blaming the silly mental people who were loyal and loved their partners.
What you are doing is wrong.
If you want to be with someone else you leave your current partner, it's that fucking simple.

The question I always pose is - Should you ever really be with the person you are cheating on?
The answer is always always NO!
So the problems are whatever reasons you are using to justify the deceit you live and the tremendous hurt you will cause. People on here rationalising about no black and white are just deluded.
Give me any scenario and the answer is - therefore you shouldn’t be with them not they with you!

*nor they with you

@Emmap9 it seems like the grass wasn't greener. The reality didn't live up to the fantasy. Don't waste your time trying to convince her that you're worthy.

@SadSausage44 I think it's easier to believe that someone who feels suicidal after discovering an affair has 'deep rooted mental health problems' than it is to admit that you were complicit in causing such trauma to another human being. How else would you convince yourself that you're 'still a good person'?

Totally agree @MLouise183
And those that leap on ‘judgemental’ people because apparently it’s not ‘black and white’
It’s always a combination of either - you really should not be with the person you are cheating on or in most cases - they sure as hell shouldn’t be with you.
Cheaters just don’t see the damage, the pain or the destruction of lives they summon up by their actions. And the more partners lives are intertwined with finance and children - the more destructive it becomes.
Some people think it’s just like that ‘overlap’ relationship from one to another they had in their twenties!

This is a fascinating thread, and i’m sorry for lurking on this debate which I know is very personal and painful for some.

A comment upthread about affairs ruining “a child’s view of adult relationships” got me thinking though.

What if bringing up children to believe that adult relationships necessarily involve lifelong fidelity is part of the problem? It’s like trying to convince them Father Christmas is real forever. Maybe if we were all more realistic about the nature of long term human relationships there’d be less of the secrecy and gaslighting?

Disclaimer: my family, close and extended, is riddled with affairs, divorces and second marriages, which you’d think would make us like an episode of Jeremy Kyle at weddings etc, but actually pretty much everyone is relaxed about it and everyone gets on. Several are good friends with their exes. Those of us at the younger end of the family are brutally realistic about relationships and there’s no judgement if a marriage fails.

I’m happily married myself and can’t imagine not being, but I’m realistic about the fact that that may not be the case forever, for either me or my husband.

People talk a lot about modelling good behaviour for children, but surely the good behaviour must be compatible with the reality, which might possibly be that long term monogamy is unnatural human behaviour.

@dadaist I think it’s wrong to believe one person can fulfil all needs. It’s not as simple to say “you’ve cheated therefore your partner is not suitable for you”. They may be very suited in most departments, but not in others. This is why polyamory is becoming more prevalent. However, while I believe the reasons behind cheating are definitely not black and white, the choice to do it or not is. It is the cowards way out.

@MLouise183 you are so spot on with everything you have said on this thread.
I don’t know how those who are having affairs can use the excuse that someone already has mental health issues for them to feel suicidal after finding out they’ve been cheated on. If that is the case and your husband/wife already has deep rooted issues then just why the fuck would you add to that by lying, being deceitful and continuing an affair knowing the damage it would surely cause to someone who already apparently has issues. It just makes your behaviour worse to be honest.
So either they don’t have mental health issues until they find their marriage has been a lie OR they do have these deep rooted issues and your behaviour has just fucking added to their mental health problems. Unbelievable really.

I kind of agree @Fedup2020I don’t think I ever suggested that one person can fulfil all another’s needs. That would be impossible. And I’d never have ago at polyamory for those that can’t commit to one person at a time.
It’s about whether you can lie, elaborately deceive, gaslight and emotionally abuse someone you love? Someone who trusts you, who lies next to you? It’s the behaviour that goes with cheating that makes it so damaging, not just the infidelity itself.

And yes - some people just have the morals of alley cats, and the wonder is why they get married - rather than what happens to their marriages.

@AndSheSteppedOnTheBall exactly that 👏👏👏. I agree. Tell children that they do not have to stay with one person forever. Teach them thats it is courageous to be honest even if it's not easy. Don't teach them that cheating is ok under certain circumstances or just hide it from them altogether.

@AndSheSteppedOnTheBall but at the same time, let's not teach them that monogamy is unnatural either. Some people want a life partner, others don't. Both should be respected. Honesty is the key.

@AndSheSteppedOnTheBall this exactly, I agree fully. This is why people feel so backed into staying in relationships when they’re not happy, because it was modelled to them as children that that’s what you do. You stay and you try harder and make it work. So they do this and are susceptible to affairs to meet their needs. No ones saying it’s fair or right but it is reality for a huge number of people and I don’t believe they’re all evil and selfish. However some people will never open their minds to see it from another angle.

I don’t believe monogamy is unnatural, it’s pretty clear that humans are a monogamous species.

I’m just not sure that lifelong monogamy is natural. For some people it happens that way and they’re happy, but I suspect they’re a small minority.

Serial monogamy seems to fit the patterns of what happens in reality better.

Tell children that they do not have to stay with one person forever. Teach them thats it is courageous to be honest even if it's not easy. Don't teach them that cheating is ok under certain circumstances or just hide it from them altogether.

This. It's FINE to leave a partner. It's FINE to be polyamorous.

Polyamory is meant to be a situation where all parties involved know they are in polygamous relationship.

It's not the leaving that people think is terrible behaviour, it's the lying and cheating.

I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.

If you want to shag someone else or have a relationship with someone else then do it.

Just don't also pretend to your existing partner that you aren't - they deserve to know so they can make an informed decision.

That can't possibly be difficult to understand and I don't see how anyone could disagree with it unless they openly admit they want to have an unknowing partner they are happy to lie to while they pursue other people.

Which is their prerogative but if thinking that's shitty is judgemental then I'm happy to be judgemental.

If you are in a relationship your partner believes to be exclusive and you want to have sex with one or more other people then all the people you are having sex with should be informed you are not exclusive.

Don't privately damn monogamy but tell your partner you're monogamous. Simple.

It’s possible to acknowledge that having an affair is wrong while at the same time recognising that life is rarely black and white. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

I had an affair several years ago, have written about it on here before. I was in an emotionally abusive marriage to someone who broke down my confidence to the extent I had none left. He belittled me, made me move away from family and friends because it would be better for him and our DC (in his words) He put barriers in the way of me going back to work after DC were born. When I signed up to be a volunteer at an organisation he did the same so we went to all stuff together.

He did things like turn off the heating so I couldn’t have it on while he was at work. Put keyloggers on the computer so he could see what I was doing. Took pictures of me naked without my knowledge, insisted we have sex the day before my six week check because they would have to know it was possible then.

There’s more but you get the gist.

Thing is, this all happened subtly over a long period, among other times which were mostly good. So it wasn’t until I was way down this track that it dawned on me that things were very wrong.

i did threaten to leave more than once, and he always swore he would change. And did, just until things had got back to being ok, and then things would gradually slide again.

And the thing is, society isn’t supportive of people who leave marriages. When I left I was told that it’s only acceptable to leave for an affair or if there is physical violence in the equation, and a lot of society still thinks that way.

I got talking to someone online and we met up. Only had sex once but by then I was emotionally infatuated. My H found out and at that point he actually would have stayed with me. But at that point I also had a reason to leave, and even though the affair ended I knew that I couldn’t go back, so I didn’t.

Do I regret having the affair? Absolutely.
Would I do it again? Not a chance.
But my ex was by no means an innocent in all of this. While the affair was 100% down to me, his behaviour beforehand was all down to him.

But you know what? As soon as someone admits to having an affair all the sympathy is with the betrayed partner, and everything that person might have done beforehand is forgotten, because they have been betrayed.

I stayed in touch with AP for a while and hoped we would get back together. But then he started seeing someone else and I was out of my marriage by then anyway. Then I got together with my now partner, and AP went mad, telling me he was just waiting for the moment to dump his GF to be with me and how I had betrayed him by not waiting for him. .

I haven’t spoken to him in several years and do wonder now what I ever saw in him. I suspect he just gave me an idea of what it felt like to be accepted, loved, even if that was an illusion at the time.

@BackseatCookers

I agree entirely, but in our current culture it’s unfortunately not that simple.

Everything - socially, financially, domestically - is set up to make it often very complicated (or prohibitively expensive) to end long term relationships. Especially if there are children.

This is not to excuse lying and gaslighting, just to offer the perspective that without a wholesale change to the culture of what relationships are expected to be - including structurally in terms of finances - there are inevitably going to be horrible clashes between ideal behaviour and what people feel they are able to do.

@AndSheSteppedOnTheBall

But then own it. Say yes ive behaved shittily and it's awful that the person cheated on didn't know what I was doing and I feel terrible lying to them and telling them they're paranoid while knowing they were right.

Life isn't black and white. Obviously. But own that you've hurt another person terribly and acknowledge that it destroys their confidence and self worth.

Good people do bad things. That doesn't mean you can't own the bad things without saying "but society" and "but the system".

Everyone is in this society, everyone is in the system, yes everything is built around monogamy. People cheat, it's real life.

But own the damage you have done to another person if you have an affair without reaching for excuses. Plenty of us manage not to do it.

@BackseatCookers

That’s too far ahead in my scenario - the ideal would not be to lie and gaslight and then own that behaviour, but not to lie and gaslight in the first place.

Society is everything, it’s not something most people can step outside of, so when the entire world we live in is telling us it’s black and white - good relationships last forever and all cheaters are the bad guy, regardless of circumstances - it’s inevitable that destructive behaviour happens when it turns out everything is shades of grey.

Yes, there are shitty abusive people who do this stuff because they’re sadistic or sociopathic, but that’s not the norm so it shouldn’t be the basis for our perceptions of affairs.

Marriage exists as an institution because historically men wanted to control women’s reproduction, and now it’s so ingrained in everything about our culture that it’s functionally impossible for many people to do the right thing when they fall out of love. It’s all very well to say “just tell the truth and leave”, but what if they can’t leave, financially? What if the fear of what their family will think and do overrides the desire to tell the truth? Relationships aren’t just two people and possibly some kids, they’re a massive web of interconnected people.

Let’s face it, for many people, ending a relationship leads to the absolute destruction of their entire lives, because that’s the way things are set up. Some people are lucky to be in a situation where the consequences are less nuclear, but many, many are not. It may be cowardly to resort to cheating, but it’s hardly inexplicable when the stakes are so high.

I had a discussion with my wife about opening our relationship on both sides as whilst we get on really well and have a child together, sexually we just don’t click. We have been together 20 years. She was horrified by the suggestion even though she admitted that we were not compatible sexually and the attraction had wore off for both of us. It is not an easy conversation to have. We have now decided to remain together as we have a lot to lose and are now in limbo land. I won’t have an affair and don’t want to give up everything we have. I therefore have no choice but to have an unfulfilled part of my life. She does will have the same too but seems happy to accept this. Very confusing.

That’s too far ahead in my scenario - the ideal would not be to lie and gaslight and then own that behaviour, but not to lie and gaslight in the first place.

Absolutely. But the rest of your post seems at odds with that as you say it's almost impossible for someone to leave instead of cheating.

Like I say, plenty of people manage not to do it.

If there's so much at stake then your desire to not 'lose everything' as you put it should be stronger than your desire to cheat. If it isn't then you're simply benefiting from the societal normals behind your partners back.

It's impossible to have an affair without to some extent gaslighting, because you're denying where you've been and who you've been with.

It's shitty behaviour and if your desire to do something you know will hurt the people around you is stronger than your desire not to hurt them then you need to accept you're having your cake and eating it too.

You also rob your unknowing partner of the chance to have met someone who does want the same thing as them and won't lie to them. That's cruel as fuck.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree, which is fine by me as we both seem comfortable with our opinions on this. I don't hurt people I love even if I did want to do something that might hurt them. Because people I love are more important.

We all have choices. They aren't black and white I agree, they are complex and confusing. But they are active choices we have to own as adults. I agree abusive relationships are different but that is whataboutery when discussing relationships that aren't abusive. Each to their own. Just a shame people are comfortable tearing down someone's confidence and self esteem in the process.

@Teslaworld1

I think I get it, I can’t imagine being in an open marriage or polyamorous relationship. I can’t put my finger on why, but it just doesn’t feel right to me.

I can imagine being single and having more than one casual boyfriend, but not one central, sexless relationship and people on the side. It just sounds like friendship or roommates to me. Which is fine.

Works for some though, so good for them! I hope you both find a way to be fulfilled eventually.

@Blessex Sometimes people need the time with both to fully realise who they wish to be with.

This is so hugely selfish. So it's your right to mess around with someone so that you can can choose the right person? Haha!

My ex had similar ideas, shame she didn't realise that in taking that approach she didn't have any choice any more.

But she's ended up with someone with a similar attitude and I am sure they are both enjoying the thrill of looking over their shoulders and wondering which of the two of them will be the first to cheat next.